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Discussion Starter · #121 · (Edited)
Sorry to disappoint, folks. But here is the problem with all the emotion and presumptions that have been triggered here: I am NOT Tom Tremblay, who I happen to know. I happen to have been a child protective social worker, not a cop. Have at it with your personal attacks if you are so inspired. I am done with this conversation.
I know for an absolute FACT that you have had no interactions, communications or involvement with Kendall Ware or any other alleged victims of the men’s basketball program or athletic department. So for all your bloviating on people making decisions when they “don’t have all the facts,” you are basing your entire stance on this on the information you’ve gotten from one side - the side alleged to have pressured a rape victim into silence while protecting an alleged rapist… your complete bias in this article is blatantly evident in the fact that you came at catpower so strongly and got so defensive of UVM basketball simply because he told a poster who expressed feeling uncomfortable about renewing their tickets that they should go with their gut.

If you are trauma informed in any way, you’ll know that only about 5% of total rape claims are false (and furthermore only about 40 percent of all rapes are ever even reported due to how traumatizing and stigmatizing an assault it is ). Overwhelmingly when survivors come forward, they’re telling the truth. And the fact you are so defensive of Vermont men’s basketball shows your complete lack of empathy and objectivity around this tells me you should not be working with victims in any way…
 

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At the end of the day, it doesn't take a child protective social worker or someone knowledgable in the field to recognize that UVM has a serious problem on its hands. Heck, I haven't followed the allegations too closely - unfortunately, I was hopeful UVM would do the right thing and hire a 3rd party firm to investigate and issue factual findings so I didn't need to rely on a message board for the details - but this situation is crystal clear. UVM fostered, tolerated, and perhaps even tried to protect an environment that toxic, harmful, and clearly traumatic for a lot of individuals.

I mean you think people make these allegations "for fun?" Listen, I say this with all due respect. You are a former child protective social worker. You did hard, important work. But, you are obviously retired. I think is a generational thing. I get it, you grew up with Animal House. Times have changed. Institutions have a duty and obligation to create environments where kids thrive. UVM is clearly dropping the ball hard - which is terribly disappointing to see. Frankly, I am embarrassed the State of Vermont is not getting more involved with the state of affairs at our flagship university.

And, at the end of the day - I don't need to hear from the people protecting and hiding the failures of the institution. I'll trust my emotions. Emotions are important. Emotions caused the march from Selma to Montgomery. Emotions caused bus boycotts in Montgomery. You think people took action after hearing from both sides about segregation in Birmingham, AL in 1963 or were they maybe moved by seeing police dogs attacking school children shown on the nightly news?

Here, I am going to trust my emotions. Something ain't right at UVM. For someone who loves the institution, you do it a HUGE disservice by failing to recognize its flaws. If you keep putting your head in the sand, how can you grow? Absolutely disgusting.

For all the students brave enough to share their stories, thank you. I can't imagine being scared to be on a university campus. It made me sick to learn that so many felt that way at a place I respected. Vermont has to do better.
 

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I appreciate the constructive posts following my question a couple of weeks ago. After much thought, we have decided to not renew our tickets (3) for the upcoming season. I'm aware of several others that are doing the same. Rather than explaining our reasoning I'll share the email I sent to Jeff Schulman...

"Jeff,

While my wife, daughter and I appreciate the flexibility you're offering for the renewal of our men's basketball season tickets, we will not be doing so for the 2021/2022 season. Our decision is unrelated to COVID concerns. Rather, it's based on what we feel has been an insufficient response by the athletic department and the University with respect to revelations regarding rape and sexual misconduct on the part of various varsity athletic programs and clubs. While we respect the sensitive nature of each instance and the confidentiality requirements, we do not feel the University has been forthcoming in explaining it's failures and has not adequately demonstrated accountability for documented revelations.

While we will miss watching Catamount basketball, we feel this is the appropriate decision at this time. We look forward to the day that the University more appropriately addresses this situation and our subsequent return to Patrick Gym or the future arena."

I received an acknowledgement saying we would be removed from the season ticket list.

Tough thing to do, but we felt it was the right thing for us.
 

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Discussion Starter · #124 ·
Bravo!!!!
I appreciate the constructive posts following my question a couple of weeks ago. After much thought, we have decided to not renew our tickets (3) for the upcoming season. I'm aware of several others that are doing the same. Rather than explaining our reasoning I'll share the email I sent to Jeff Schulman...

"Jeff,

While my wife, daughter and I appreciate the flexibility you're offering for the renewal of our men's basketball season tickets, we will not be doing so for the 2021/2022 season. Our decision is unrelated to COVID concerns. Rather, it's based on what we feel has been an insufficient response by the athletic department and the University with respect to revelations regarding rape and sexual misconduct on the part of various varsity athletic programs and clubs. While we respect the sensitive nature of each instance and the confidentiality requirements, we do not feel the University has been forthcoming in explaining it's failures and has not adequately demonstrated accountability for documented revelations.

While we will miss watching Catamount basketball, we feel this is the appropriate decision at this time. We look forward to the day that the University more appropriately addresses this situation and our subsequent return to Patrick Gym or the future arena."

I received an acknowledgement saying we would be removed from the season ticket list.

Tough thing to do, but we felt it was the right thing for us.
 

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NotDeadYet, I'm not a lawyer. My understanding is there are lawyers on this forum who I'm sure can give you a better response. If you want to argue that there's no evidence whatsoever because KW didn't make a statement under oath, fine. I can't argue that. If that's enough for you to say all is well at UVM Athletics, so be it. What I will say is an outside facilitator met with Ware during the reporting process and was quoted as saying "he thought she had a strong case for the formal option." See the link below.


VT Cats Fan, I'm sorry, you're right, ~2.5 years since the event. I got that mixed up. And you're also right the public isn't owed anything.

But, KW was clearly unhappy with how the university handled her case. Unhappy enough that she went to the media and filed a lawsuit with NCAA.

Schulman and Becker were heavily involved in the entire process, right from onset, according to post 102 in this thread. I do know that's speculation. But, per the article above, Schulman met with Ware multiple times, offered his thoughts about suspensions, and also set up a telephone call with her family. I don't see how you can conclude the athletic department was entirely out of the process, to use your words.

I'm not calling anybody on the current roster a rapist. What I am saying is the same admin, coach, and AD that KW feels wronged by are all still in place. And because the comments by athletic department were a laughably weak (a weak statement by Schulman months ago and the recent aforementioned instagram post), I again feel like the athletic department hasn't taken any accountability for how this was handled.

Just because KW isn't filing a lawsuit against the coaching staff or athletic department doesn't mean they're blameless. Schulman was specifically mentioned in the lawsuit of how he had multiple "check-ins" with KW, which shouldn't have happened either. I don't think it's hard to see why those on social media are upset with the athletic department.
 

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New article on the Ware situation, speaks to legal types about how athletics departments influence cases like hers. If you're a Chrome user, get this extension to read without the paywall: Bypass Paywall
That bypass didn't work. In looking at reviews, doesn't look like it works very often. Thanks anyway. Curious as to what the article had to say.
 

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That bypass didn't work. In looking at reviews, doesn't look like it works very often. Thanks anyway. Curious as to what the article had to say.
I spent the money to read the article. The story refreshes the original victim's experience as she went to the athletic department to report her sexual assault. She discusses how she felt that she was manipulated into pursuing an avenue that would result in the least punitive measures for her accused.

There is background on the fact that many university athletic departments nationwide have involvement in sexual misconduct reporting and that it can create a conflict of interest. The article quotes experts in the field that suggest that policy should be created so that a clearer distinction between those who are directly responsible for investigating sexual misconduct and those departments who could be impacted by it. It mentioned that UVM's Deputy Title IX coordinator is also an Associate Athletic Director.

The article said that the original victim and the others that were in the lawsuit, backed out of their case against the NCAA due to disagreement among the lawyers involved in the case regarding multiple aspects of the case. The court dismissed the case but allowed for it to be brought again.

The article outlines changes that have been made at UVM since the allegation but also quote the original victim as saying it's not enough and that she feels that there has been no change in the culture in the athletic department.

My $.02 on reading the article: it felt like a pretty fair and accurate representation of what appears to have happened in the initial case. There are quotes from Schulman that seem to empathize with the victim(s) but also seem to suggest that separation between those who investigate sexual assault and those in the athletic department is not necessary. The victims feelings and experiences seem well documented. There is also the national perspective and quotes from experts in the field that acknowledge that this is a problem nationwide and should be fixed.

It was interesting to read that there is no longer a lawsuit involving the original victim. It seems to me that this whole thing has now become a social media campaign to affect greater change at UVM.
 

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I believe women who come forward, sometimes at great personal risk and embarrassment to themselves. However, what is anyone supposed to do with anonymous social media allegations? There is a huge problem at UVM and it isn't going away anytime soon.

At a minimum, an independent State agency needs to come in and sort this out ASAP. Justice for victims and restore confidence in a system to protect all students from sexual abuse. UVM seems to have a binge drinking and sexual assault "culture" that needs to be addressed by the administration. Again, where are the adults?
 

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This person decided to post this the day after the day the tournament was announced. The timing seems perfect.

There is never going to be justice for anyone if people keep posting anonymously online. They dont want this stopped. They want Becker and Schulman fired. The goal is obviously to do it though the media rather than through the appropriate channels. I just dont know what they want Vermont to do.
 

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I generally agree with the sentiment, however it appears to be that UVM and the State of Vermont had a long time to conduct independent investigations and report out publicly on finding and actions. Where is that response?

The failure of leadership to adequately respond is certainly leading to continued social media discourse. This is not going to end well.

What is the State Legislature or Governor doing? Credible accusations for years have been ignored and victims deserve justice. The institution also needs to have credibility and accountability in response to this. I can't believe anyone in Vermont thought this was just going to go away without a complete investigation and full response by independent authorities.

How can we hold student-athletes accountable for their actions, while administrators and politicians aren't held accountable themselves? Do their job and accept the results!
 

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This person decided to post this the day after the day the tournament was announced. The timing seems perfect.

There is never going to be justice for anyone if people keep posting anonymously online. They dont want this stopped. They want Becker and Schulman fired. The goal is obviously to do it though the media rather than through the appropriate channels. I just dont know what they want Vermont to do.
Agreed. The posting of anonymous social media claims does little to shed light on the issues. Just throwing s__t on the wall to see if anything sticks. There has got to be a better way to have this stuff addressed. We have little way of knowing how these particular allegations were handled by officials at UVM.
 

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I generally agree with the sentiment, however it appears to be that UVM and the State of Vermont had a long time to conduct independent investigations and report out publicly on finding and actions. Where is that response?

The failure of leadership to adequately respond is certainly leading to continued social media discourse. This is not going to end well.

What is the State Legislature or Governor doing? Credible accusations for years have been ignored and victims deserve justice. The institution also needs to have credibility and accountability in response to this. I can't believe anyone in Vermont thought this was just going to go away without a complete investigation and full response by independent authorities.

How can we hold student-athletes accountable for their actions, while administrators and politicians aren't held accountable themselves? Do their job and accept the results!
There was an independent investigation done. The victims simply think that the investigation and changes that have been implemented don't go far enough.

I can't imagine that the university or administration is going to do much with anonymous allegations on a social media website. There are multiple options through the university and obviously local law enforcement if the victims actually want accountability for the accused.

The longer this goes on, the way it has been, the less credible this movement becomes...

The ironic thing is, this social media campaign is more likely to keep Becker here than get him fired. He likely would have left on his own via another job offer but it's likely that some offers may not have happened over concerns with this issue.

So, if the end game is to get Becker removed...they are losing...badly...
 

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VTCatsFan - fair enough.

If that investigation was independent and credible, then there is still a public relations problem.

Agree that the university shouldn't respond to every anonymous social media post, but clearly UVM fumbled the initial response and has not gained more widespread support across the university community for the institutional response to the findings.
 

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I generally agree with the sentiment, however it appears to be that UVM and the State of Vermont had a long time to conduct independent investigations and report out publicly on finding and actions. Where is that response?

The failure of leadership to adequately respond is certainly leading to continued social media discourse. This is not going to end well.

What is the State Legislature or Governor doing? Credible accusations for years have been ignored and victims deserve justice. The institution also needs to have credibility and accountability in response to this. I can't believe anyone in Vermont thought this was just going to go away without a complete investigation and full response by independent authorities.

How can we hold student-athletes accountable for their actions, while administrators and politicians aren't held accountable themselves? Do their job and accept the results!

My question is what can the state legislature and governor do? The female student based on all the information she received decided not to go in a specific direction because she did not want the male student athlete to get in trouble. Sure it may have been confusing but she still had all the information. More trainign i guess would help that. Schulman had one meeting with her with other school officials and was largely out of the conversation. Becker was not involved at all. Balogh was the only one from the athletics department who seemed to be extensively involved during the process.

Again this was all from the article written in burlington frree press on 10/3/2020
 

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VTCatsFan - fair enough.

If that investigation was independent and credible, then there is still a public relations problem.

Agree that the university shouldn't respond to every anonymous social media post, but clearly UVM fumbled the initial response and has not gained more widespread support across the university community for the institutional response to the findings.
Yes, that has been well documented and agreed upon by most fans.
 

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VTCatsFan - fair enough.

If that investigation was independent and credible, then there is still a public relations problem.

Agree that the university shouldn't respond to every anonymous social media post, but clearly UVM fumbled the initial response and has not gained more widespread support across the university community for the institutional response to the findings.
A local paper ran an article about how the investigation was ran last year. Students were upset that the results weren't made public and one student was quoted as saying "the firm UVM hired seems more oriented toward improving the university’s image, not its systems."


So my sentiment aligns with the above posts - it's better than nothing, but still not enough. I also do think more can be done on campus if students were really serious about effecting change. Where are the calls to sponsors asking for their thoughts?

"The ironic thing is, this social media campaign is more likely to keep Becker here than get him fired. He likely would have left on his own via another job offer but it's likely that some offers may not have happened over concerns with this issue.

So, if the end game is to get Becker removed...they are losing...badly..."

My hope is the end goal is to enact meaningful change on campus, offering more resources for survivors, UVM taking accountability for its actions (or lack thereof) so far. This issue isn't unique to just UVM, but students there are obviously more unhappy with the school's response to it. If this is just a Becker issue, then it's same problem different campus. And you can't say the student protests are responsible for him staying? It's not like they asked for this.
 
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