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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey,

I'm primarily a knicks fan, but have followed the blazers over the last few years. I'm interested in knowing how you guys feel about sheeds value. I've watched him many times and personally I think he's underrated. In skill I think he's equivalent to webber (maybe better b/c of he's defense, versatility). This won't show in the stats but I think he's very valuable to his team.

Now if he were traded most of you guys are asking for superstars in return. This I don't understand. I love this guy but some of the posts I'm reading are asking for example curry + crawford, lewis, etc in return. I think this is unrealistic.

1)He's ending contract. So he's stay is uncertain. It's not the typical superstar for superstar because you don't know if he's going to resign. Look what happened to bucks with gary.

2)Rasheed is going to ask for a contract between 10-14 million. This is franchise type of contract. Rasheed has shown that he's not a franchise player. What team is going to trade for him knowing to keep him that they would have to pay that type of money?

3)Rasheed has got a bad image around the league. He seeing as louse cannon and uncertain what you are going to get out of him nite in and nite out.

Obviosly there's many positives to getting rasheed. But at what cost are teams willing to pay? IMO 1st teir stars/and prospects are out of the question. So no prospects like eddie curry or chandler. Or 1st teir stars like ray allen are obviously are out of the questio.

The best he would yeild would be young players (not seing to become franchise players but could be a star) + 1st round pick + maybe a nice role player to compliment the blazers!
 

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Originally posted by <b>knickerbocker2k2</b>!

1)He's ending contract. So he's stay is uncertain. It's not the typical superstar for superstar because you don't know if he's going to resign. Look what happened to bucks with gary.

Yea ending contract teams clear off 17 mill at the end of the year if they want... they also get bird rights to him so they have him on a long leash if they wish...
Also Gary was unhappy in Milwakkie and it was out in the opne he wasn't going to sign back with the bucks

Originally posted by <b>knickerbocker2k2</b>!

2)Rasheed is going to ask for a contract between 10-14 million. This is franchise type of contract. Rasheed has shown that he's not a franchise player. What team is going to trade for him knowing to keep him that they would have to pay that type of money?
Sheed might ask for 10-14 million but he wont get any more then 8 mil most likely... and that matters with how long of a contract he signs.

Originally posted by <b>knickerbocker2k2</b>!

3)Rasheed has got a bad image around the league. He seeing as louse cannon and uncertain what you are going to get out of him nite in and nite out.
Sheed has proven that he doesnt want to be the number one option. he isnt a selfish player at all, he would rather pass then shoot if he's covered. Sheed + any superstar could easly be the best combo in the league.

Just my 2 cents...:D
 

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An additional point, is that Sheed is worth 17 mill off the cap for Portland (if he is allowed to walk) and 17 x 2 off the payroll. Portland is rebuilding. Thus letting Sheed walk is a real option for the Blazers. They don't fear losing Sheed. They aren't feeling pressure to make just any deal for him.

So, since the Knicks probably don't have a package that interests the Blazers, it appears no deal between the two can be made. I think your GM was talking to Atlanta for more than one reason. One of the reasons might be some sort of deal between NY and Atlanta, for Atlanta to take Sheed before the trade deadline, and in the summer sign and trade him to NY. This would give NY more time to get players Atlanta might want. If Sheed stays in Portland, and Portland lets him walk, then the Bird rights are gone. It is doubtful that Sheed will be happy signing for the MLE and Portland has virtually no reason to accept a sign and trade with NY.
 

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Gary Payton (and Desmond Mason) netted Ray Allen.

Portland should try to get similar value for Rasheed, and they know that at minimum they're going to be in good shape in 2005 to make a run at FAs if they let him walk.

I don't think they HAVE to get a superstar for Rasheed, but they should not take on any long-term contracts unless they are.

Ed O.
 

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Originally posted by <b>knickerbocker2k2</b>!
Now if he were traded most of you guys are asking for superstars in return. This I don't understand. I love this guy but some of the posts I'm reading are asking for example curry + crawford, lewis, etc in return. I think this is unrealistic.
I think you contradict yourself there. Who's asking for what superstars? Curry, Crawford, and Lewis aren't superstars by any stretch of the imagination. I agree asking for a superstar in return for Wallace would be unrealistic. Asking for a borderline star player like Lewis or unproven player with potential like Curry or Crawford is not unrealistic at all. That would be fair value for Wallace.
 

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In skill I think he's equivalent to webber (maybe better b/c of he's defense, versatility). This won't show in the stats but I think he's very valuable to his team.

Now if he were traded most of you guys are asking for superstars in return. This I don't understand.
I addition to what D-Up said, the above is also a contradiction. Webber is clearly a superstar. If you consider Wallace to be equivalent to, or better than, Webber, then why is it unreasonable to expect a similar talent in return for Rasheed?

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I dont think i contridicated myself. I was using the term superstar loosely. I think its obvious to everyone that wallace won't net players of the caliber kidd, webber, dirk, peirce, etc..By superstar I meant players like lewis. Lewis for instance out of high school and is only 24. There's still huge upside for him.

Same with the top prospect. They aren't superstars but the potential is there for them to become part of the elite players in the league. Curry for instance could we'll be the best center in the league in a few years. Why would the bulls trade him before he's rookie contract is even up? Same with chandler. I doubt wallace would net anyone who would be consider a franchise player.

I think the blazers are going to hold on to him because they'll never get equal value for him. To trade him would require they take bad contracts and since no one is offering star players/franchise potential players, their better to resign him or let him walk.

As much as I want him on the knicks that is very doubtful because I doubt the blazers want one of KVH/Houston.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Originally posted by <b>dkap</b>!

I addition to what D-Up said, the above is also a contradiction. Webber is clearly a superstar. If you consider Wallace to be equivalent to, or better than, Webber, then why is it unreasonable to expect a similar talent in return for Rasheed?

Dan
I said in terms of skill, Wallace is equal or better then webber. But other factors have to be taken into consideration. I mention them above but things like impending free agency and wallace's character issues.
 

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we dont get stars we dont get players with ptoential what do we get? 5 playesrs that just fill roster spots... players on the decline. wallaces contract if not the player easly warrents a rising player at least. Wallace gives a team something right this second not in 3 or 4 years. Blazers if they trade wallace which i hope they DONT will be pretty much blowing up the team and building for the furture.
 

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I really hope that the Blazers decide to C.ut T.hat C.heck ( CTC )

I really do not want to see Rasheed leave the Blazers organization.
 

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Originally posted by <b>knickerbocker2k2</b>!
Same with the top prospect. They aren't superstars but the potential is there for them to become part of the elite players in the league. Curry for instance could we'll be the best center in the league in a few years. Why would the bulls trade him before he's rookie contract is even up? Same with chandler. I doubt wallace would net anyone who would be consider a franchise player.
Curry's status as a potential franchise player is slipping fast. Chandler still has huge upside but I doubt anyone can honestly say his potential to be a franchise player is great.

At just about the same age, Wallace was a more polished offensive player than Chandler. Also at the same age, Wallace was a much better defender than Curry. You can't honestly say that Curry and Chandler has more potential than Wallace when Wallace was at the same age. If both Curry and Chandler are as sure to be great player as LeBron James is to become, then I agree that it would be unrealistic to trade Wallace for one of them.
 

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Originally posted by <b>knickerbocker2k2</b>!
I dont think i contridicated myself. I was using the term superstar loosely. I think its obvious to everyone that wallace won't net players of the caliber kidd, webber, dirk, peirce, etc..
Do you consider Marbury at about the same level as Kidd, Webber, Dirk, PP, etc... and what was he just netted for?

A. Cap relief, which Sheed has 17 million dollars worth of.

Wallace walking without compensation wouldn't be a terrible thing for this organization IMO (definitely not everyone heres stated opinion though), as his $ off the cap would be setting them up to be able to sign multiple max type FAs in 2005. Blazer management could correctly decide to go many different ways with their Wallace decision. What they decide to do probably depends on whats made available by other teams, but it's not like they have to make a deal.

STOMP
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
marbury i think is close/or the same level as kidd..he was traded for cap relief mainly and because the team felt it was time to rebuild..but he had max contract he just signed for like 5+ years and they got 2 1st rounders + a guy projected to be a 10 pick this past draft..

the problem is that the teams interested in wallace dont need cap room(knicks)..they are primarily interested in his skills..teams rebuilding dont want to give up their young prospects to get a player who isn't going to become their franchise player..and the blazers aren't interested in getting bad contracts in return..

before that trade i think the knicks could've traded 1st round pick + frankie + mcdyess for wallace..blazers could have done the same with the suns in getting marbury, but they would have had to change their rebuilding process.

if rasheed was making 8-12 million he would have probably being traded for probably couple of ending contracts, and a mid-level prospects such as jamal crawford, frank williams, lampe, etc, and maybe a pick..
 

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Originally posted by <b>knickerbocker2k2</b>!
the problem is that the teams interested in wallace dont need cap room(knicks)..
the knicks problem with obtaining Sheed is that they have next to nothing (outside of Marbury) that Portland would want, and Portland isn't backed into a corner having to make a deal.

if rasheed was making 8-12 million he would have probably being traded for probably couple of ending contracts, and a mid-level prospects such as jamal crawford, frank williams, lampe, etc, and maybe a pick..
In the upcoming offseason, Portland will be in the best position (by far) of signing Wallace either for themselves or for a S&T. Likely he'll command dollars in the range you project, but I think he'd fetch prospects a whole lot better then Frank Williams or Lampe. Gosh I hope so.

With the CBA limiting 20+ mil annual salaries, teams have the ability to have multiple players making 12 mil and still be in the good graces of the cap. The way I see it, the current CBA has taken away the over the top contracts that place one guy above the rest of the team, annointing them "franchise" players in the minds of fans. It's a team game, and whoever has Sheed (at 10 mil or so) will be able to sign on some more help.

STOMP
 
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