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Discussion Starter #1
I'll start...

1. Roy Williams:
Assets: National Champion. Recruiter of the best class in the country and arguably the best ever.

Flaws: Not keeping his top 7 scorers in school (who cares if three of them graduated and the other four were first round picks). Using the press to advance his agenda.

Overview: His first season at Kansas and his first season at Carolina were his toughest tests to date but both will pale in comparison to this year at UNC. Carolina fans are spoiled by decades worth of winning and have a bigger entitlement chip on their shoulder then just about anybody except for maybe Kentucky. I promise you, when this years squad stumbles early and likely often, people will be grousing about Roy. Nonetheless, I'll give him a year long pass even if they won't. In next year's rankings he'll slip to two, but for now he has to be king of the hill.

Expectations: A solid, overachieving young team. If he can get guard play out of Quentin Thomas or Bobby Fraisor and get the heels deep in the NIT or a couple of rounds into the NCAA he'll have done his job. That being said, he's good enough that despite the attrition, the youth and the holes in the lineup he should make the Big Dance. He makes a run in there he might even retain this ranking but that would be almost superhuman.

2. Coach K
Assets: 3 National Titles. A Loaded roster with senior leadership. An American Express recruiting TV commercial (that was for you Truth).

Flaws: See his third asset.

Overview: This roster is LOADED. There is little dropoff from the starters to their subs. They can hit from the outside and they can pound it inside. Coach K won't have to do much to get a lot of wins. Subbing McRoberts for SheWill, Precious for Reddick, Paulus for Dockery is a luxury. Melchionni's development (though many forget he was a borderline top 100 guy) is a credit to coach K. His ability to extend the defense and demand his defender to stay near him opens things up for the all americans reddick and Shelden.

Expectations: A Final Four run. They are too talented and complee to get knocked off by any team but a 1 or 2 seed or a high 3 or 4 catching fire. I won't go so far to say anything but a National Championship will be a disappointment. With the ACC down, though regular season and ACC tourney titles have to be anticipated. Will be a banner year. A 4th national title should be in the works.

3. Gary Williams
Assets: 1 national title and two final fours in the last 5 years. Gets more out of less than maybe anybody but Al Skinner.

Flaws: Sweats 10 gallons of water every game and insists on coaching inside the lines--that's a saftey risk to the players--slippage.

OVERVIEW: With Gilchrist out the Gist of this team is teamwork. I think GWill has an lineup flying under the radar. Cany-Medley, Strawberry and McCray should keep Maryland near the top of the ACC all year. For some reason, I'm not seeing them as a consensus 3rd team in the ACC. I think Gary's so good they will be. Of course if they make the NCAAs he'll meet the otherwise fairly low expecations for him.

EXPECTATIONS: They'll beat somebody they shouldn't. Maryland, again will probably put one of the few Ls on Duke this year (maybe the only one). They'll lose to somebody they shouldn't but Gary Williams with reinforcements coming will remind everybody he's one of the best coaches in the nation.

More to come...
 

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Wooden the Wizard
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First off, thank you for taking the time to post this. I enjoyed reading it.

Now for my comments...

mateer said:
1. Roy Williams:
Assets: Recruiter of the best class in the country and arguably the best ever.
I will take that argue... I'd wait and at least give that class 1 collegiate game before I'd give them any such accolades as "best ever."

Flaws: Not keeping his top 7 scorers in school.
The minute he talks one of them into staying is the minute he turns in Coach K - that "selfish" coach who keeps kids around just to advance his program. :rolleyes: Seriously though - doing that truly is being self, especially if the kid is pretty much guaranteed a salary in the millions.

Using the press to advance his agenda.
I have no idea what that's referring to.

I promise you, when this years squad stumbles early and likely often, people will be grousing about Roy.
I don't believe they will. If anything, you'll hear something like this - "Well, we lost our best players, and we've got the best classes coming in next year. Next year we'll kill people." IMO, that's not fair to this year's team, but it's gonna happen anyway. BTW, I stole "it's not far to this year's team" from a Roy Williams interview. Don't ask me which one, but it's his. Didn't want to plagarize. ;)

In next year's rankings he'll slip to two, but for now he has to be king of the hill.
So the title really should be "ACC's best coach of 2004-2005"? If that's the case, this ranking is bogus. I used this analogy somewhere else, but a monkey could have won games coaching last year's group.

An American Express recruiting TV commercial (that was for you Truth).

I still don't see how this is any different from a coach from a smaller league doing radio ads for some local company, or better yet, Kansas's Bill Self or Maryland's Gary Williams doing interviews and recording film clips for EA Sport's 2006 March Madness. You try to explain to me the difference between selling your program on a video game that's played by future recruits or selling your program on a TV ad that's seen by millions during a NCAA Tournament game. But people say, "Well, at least Self & Williams are selling their program on a video game that has somthing to do with college basketball." And to that person I say, You're full of bull, and willingly blind to the fact that the two are doing the same thing just through different means.


Sorry... That bolded paragraph above is for me. So it sticks out and I know where it is next time someone attempts to say that tv ad was something unethical and that Krzyzewski is the only one who does those kinds of advertisements.
 

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I've got to admit, Coach K is a better bench coach that Roy. I really wasn't impressed with Roy's coaching, even if he did end up winning the national championship. The way that team played on the way there, especially against Wisconsin and Villanova, really turned me off.

I don't like Coach K, but I do believe he is the best coach in college basketball. It might not even be close. The way he gets his kids to play team defense is nothing short of incredible. I don't think there is an NBA coach that can teach pressure defense the way that K does.

There are plenty of great coaches in the ACC. Williams and Sendek are up there, along with Hewitt and Oliver Purnell.
 

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Limehouse Blues
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Roy Williams is at least the fourth best coach in North Carolina after K,Bob McKillop and Bobby Lutz.It's retarded to say that he's the best in the ACC.Exactly what is Ol Roy's winning percentage in the ACC?It's not going to get much better this year either.
 

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Diable said:
Roy Williams is at least the fourth best coach in North Carolina after K,Bob McKillop and Bobby Lutz.It's retarded to say that he's the best in the ACC.Exactly what is Ol Roy's winning percentage in the ACC?It's not going to get much better this year either.
I was willing to give you Coach K being better, but Bobby Lutz? That's just absurd.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yeah about Lutz, the Charlotte fans themselves don't seem to be too enamored with Lutz's coaching ability over on the A10 board.

As for the American Express ad, valid points, Bobby Knight wears more logos than a Nascar driver. I think where most people have issue with the American Express deal is not Coach K being an endorser but the ad itself (which they changed/pulled). He specifically talked about the benefits of being a Duke player. In short, it was a slick invitation and promotional spot on Duke. The ads where K talked American Express, pro players, and basically not Duke I don't have a problem with.

Roy Williams--press and agenda--poorly worded, let me explicate, I feel like he talks through the press to his players sometimes. With the McCants prison thing the first statement he made wasn't to the player it was to a reporter and it was before he had the facts. Also, in his post-game he's honest, but sometimes to the point where I think he'd be better served saying in the locker room not through the media. I think that can be corrosive to teamwork.

And as for him being number 1: I rate him that before the season, he's the top coach in the conference(country) because he's reigning national title holder and only Matta this year can hold a candle to him in recruiting. Oh, and I agree I won't judge this class until they've done something (or nothing) but I said "arguably" because plenty of other sources are already making those claims.
 

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Wooden the Wizard
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uh oh! K's doing NABC commercials now too... Recruiting advantage! Recruiting advantage! :evil:
 

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Herb Sendek won't look so great with Julius Hodge gone. If Boston College didn't have such stringent academic policies regarding student athletes, I'd put Al Skinner even higher. He's a fantastic coach. A program builder to the fullest.
 

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Roy is number 1 hands down. the man is a basketball god
 

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Limehouse Blues
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I can tell by your all time UNC team that you are a real expert on basketball.Roy must be a god,but
again What exactly is his record in the ACC?A god like him must win lots of games every year 'eh?
 

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Diable said:
I can tell by your all time UNC team that you are a real expert on basketball.Roy must be a god,but
again What exactly is his record in the ACC?A god like him must win lots of games every year 'eh?

hmmmmm so my opinion on my favorite players makes me wrong.....damn I'm glad that the almighty duke fans know sooo much about basketball......as for his record in the acc.....hmmmmmmm is there a national championship in chapel hill right now? yes sir.....so until next time coack k can go back to doing american express commercials and doing book signings with shane battiwho?
 

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MightyMouse1984 said:
hmmmmm so my opinion on my favorite players makes me wrong.....damn I'm glad that the almighty duke fans know sooo much about basketball......as for his record in the acc.....hmmmmmmm is there a national championship in chapel hill right now? yes sir.....so until next time coack k can go back to doing american express commercials and doing book signings with shane battiwho?

:laugh:

Julius Peppers as the 3rd pf on UNC's all-time team?? :laugh: He wouldn't even be in the top 20 pfs.
 

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The Truth said:
:laugh:

Julius Peppers as the 3rd pf on UNC's all-time team?? :laugh: He wouldn't even be in the top 20 pfs.

It's interesting that North Carolina football star Julius Peppers was named for basketball Hall of Famer Julius Erving, because without Peppers, the Tar Heels basketball team might not be going to the Final Four.

Peppers, a freshman All-American at defensive end for the UNC football team, has emerged as a catalyst in North Carolina's recent resurgence. The 6-foot-7, 280-pound Peppers joined the basketball team in late November and has steadily improved, becoming the Tar Heels' sixth man in a six-man rotation.

Likened to Charles Barkley, Peppers is quick and versatile enough to play any of the three frontcourt positions. In the regional semifinal against Tennessee, he played most of the final 8:03 at center after seven-footer Brendan Haywood fouled out.

Few could have envisioned what Peppers would bring to this year's Tar Heels, except for teammates Haywood and Kris Lang, who both played AAU ball with Peppers.

"Julius has been a godsend for us," says Carolina head coach Bill Guthridge. "We wouldn't have done what we've done without him."


99.9% of the scouts out there say peppers would have gone 1st round NFL or NBA. He was one of the primary reason the heels made it to the final four a few years back. But its good to know that you know what you're talking about not top 20 pfs. :hurl:
 

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MightyMouse1984 said:
It's interesting that North Carolina football star Julius Peppers was named for basketball Hall of Famer Julius Erving, because without Peppers, the Tar Heels basketball team might not be going to the Final Four.

Peppers, a freshman All-American at defensive end for the UNC football team, has emerged as a catalyst in North Carolina's recent resurgence. The 6-foot-7, 280-pound Peppers joined the basketball team in late November and has steadily improved, becoming the Tar Heels' sixth man in a six-man rotation.

Likened to Charles Barkley, Peppers is quick and versatile enough to play any of the three frontcourt positions. In the regional semifinal against Tennessee, he played most of the final 8:03 at center after seven-footer Brendan Haywood fouled out.

Few could have envisioned what Peppers would bring to this year's Tar Heels, except for teammates Haywood and Kris Lang, who both played AAU ball with Peppers.

"Julius has been a godsend for us," says Carolina head coach Bill Guthridge. "We wouldn't have done what we've done without him."


99.9% of the scouts out there say peppers would have gone 1st round NFL or NBA. He was one of the primary reason the heels made it to the final four a few years back. But its good to know that you know what you're talking about not top 20 pfs. :hurl:

You should probably stop right now. Julius Pepper’s career statistics: 5.7 points and 3.7 rebounds a game. In his best season he averaged 7.1 points and 3.7 rebounds a game. UNC is one of the all-time great programs, and you’re trying to tell me that he is the 3rd greatest power forward in their history. Hilarious. :laugh: Come on, even guys like Ademola Okulaja would rank WAY ahead of Julius Peppers.

Your list is so horribly messed up, I can't even begin to address the rest of it. Kris Lang may not even be in the top 20 of all-time either. And BTW, Brenden Haywood was a center and Antawn Jamison was a pf.

Have you ever heard of guys like Phil Ford, James Worthy, and Kenny Smith (among countless others)?
 
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coach k is the most overated coach. he gets all the recruits, seriously how many times has duke had the best recruitign class?? maybe he gets players but he doesnt have a clue how to coach them. how the heck did he lose with that loaded team to uconn? his teams never play like a TEAM, they are always individuals.
 

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The Truth said:
You should probably stop right now. Julius Pepper’s career statistics: 5.7 points and 3.7 rebounds a game. In his best season he averaged 7.1 points and 3.7 rebounds a game. UNC is one of the all-time great programs, and you’re trying to tell me that he is the 3rd greatest power forward in their history. Hilarious. :laugh: Come on, even guys like Ademola Okulaja would rank WAY ahead of Julius Peppers.

Your list is so horribly messed up, I can't even begin to address the rest of it. Kris Lang may not even be in the top 20 of all-time either. And BTW, Brenden Haywood was a center and Antawn Jamison was a pf.

Have you ever heard of guys like Phil Ford, James Worthy, and Kenny Smith (among countless others)?

no never ever have i ever heard of those guys before who were they? and I'm FULLY aware of the positions guys played...i said they are a list of my all time favorite [email protected] not the all time best. (show some maturity, please)
 

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Wooden the Wizard
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SlamJam said:
coach k is the most overated coach. he gets all the recruits, seriously how many times has duke had the best recruitign class?? maybe he gets players but he doesnt have a clue how to coach them. how the heck did he lose with that loaded team to uconn? his teams never play like a TEAM, they are always individuals.

:laugh:
 

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Limehouse Blues
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Clarify yourself please.COach K isn't the best coach in the ACC because he only went 37-2(19-0 in the ACC) in 1999.That's a very unique argument.What sort of logic did you employ to reach that conclusion?"Of course he's only gone 37-2 once before,maybe it was a fluke.
 

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MightyMouse1984 said:
no never ever have i ever heard of those guys before who were they? and I'm FULLY aware of the positions guys played...i said they are a list of my all time favorite [email protected] not the all time best. (show some maturity, please)
I'm the *******? Your sig says "All Time North Carolina Team," it doesn't say anything about being your favorite team.
 
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