Professional and College Basketball Forums banner

1 - 20 of 87 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
550 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/19891570?source=rss_blogs_NBA

Rumblings about Ray Allen being on his way out of Boston are accurate, but only if the Celtics can get back a player who’d crack the top eight in their rotation. One scenario that has been discussed would have Allen going to Chicago for Kirk Hinrich and another piece – John Salmons? – to satisfy the salary requirements. If it came to fruition, what an intriguing swap it would be for teams that waged such a thrilling postseason battle only eight months ago. Since Allen’s $19.7 million contract expires after the season, acquiring him would leave Chicago flush with cap space for a 2010 free-agent binge centered around Chicago native Dwyane Wade and an additional superstar.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
58,359 Posts
Gotta do it over a McGrady, no doubt. We need more offense.

With Brown here, that would also help.

Add to the fact we would not have to worry about Salmons for 2010.

Helps the Celtics this year as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,352 Posts
If we could move Hinrich and Salmons and get back Allen it would be a phenomenal trade for us... That would be amazing.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,493 Posts
I more or less proposed this in another thread a day or two ago as a C's fan, but I like it for both teams. I'd want the C's getting back an additional asset in the trade(Thomas? it's not like you'll re-sign him) but I like the general idea for both teams, as it gives the C's a legit three-guard rotation for the first time in years and clears and additional 15 million off your cap this summer. Allen's slowed down significantly, so splitting him into two guards who can score in low double-digits and increasing Rondo's(yes, I know Chicago hates him, but bear with me) role in the offense is a viable option.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,297 Posts
I dont see why the Celtics would rather have Hinrich and Salmons around a couple more years than to just hold on to Allens expiring contract till the end of this season.

Do they really think they can win a championship with Kirk Hinrich and Salmons as your starting 2 and 3, I dont think so. Paul Pierce might be done for the season, even if KG comes back this team's window is closed if they make this trade.

But good for the Bulls, GREAT for the Bulls. More capspace is great.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,493 Posts
I dont see why the Celtics would rather have Hinrich and Salmons around a couple more years than to just hold on to Allens expiring contract till the end of this season.

Do they really think they can win a championship with Kirk Hinrich and Salmons as your starting 2 and 3, I dont think so. Paul Pierce might be done for the season, even if KG comes back this team's window is closed if they make this trade.

But good for the Bulls, GREAT for the Bulls. More capspace is great.
Pierce isn't done for the season, he's day-to-day, the foot wound up not being broken. Salmons would likely be the starting two-guard with Hinrich(a huge upgrade over House or TA) backing up both the 1 and 2. Hinrich and Salmons' contracts aren't really too much of an issue for Boston because we aren't set up to have cap space for a few years, so letting Allen expire doesn't do anything positive for us. The downgrade from Allen to Salmons is more than made up for by adding a legitimate third guard in Hinrich, and if we're lucky Thomas does something productive for the C's.

Hinrich, Salmons and Tyrus Thomas for Ray Allen's expiring? Seems like an awful lot to give up.
Not really. Chicago wants to stay competitive this year, but they'd absolutely love to rid themselves of Hinrich and Salmons' contracts this summer. Tyrus Thomas isn't really in Chicago's future plans, which is why they've been floating him as a sweetener in any Hinrich deal, I'm just asking that they continue to do so. Ray Allen is still a productive player, so Chicago's able to remain competitive this year(which will keep their fans and core players happy) while still clearing massive amounts of cap space for the summer. Makes perfect sense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,297 Posts
Pierce isn't done for the season, he's day-to-day, the foot wound up not being broken. Salmons would likely be the starting two-guard with Hinrich(a huge upgrade over House or TA) backing up both the 1 and 2. Hinrich and Salmons' contracts aren't really too much of an issue for Boston because we aren't set up to have cap space for a few years, so letting Allen expire doesn't do anything positive for us. The downgrade from Allen to Salmons is more than made up for by adding a legitimate third guard in Hinrich, and if we're lucky Thomas does something productive for the C's.
Well PP not being gone all season really changes things, yeah I can see this as a good deal for the Celtic's, they will take a hit offensively and in clutch situations but their defense will be improved.

Dont think it puts them back in the championship picture but its better than doing nothing I guess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,189 Posts
I would do any variation of this trade (anything not involving Rose or Noah), but it sure doesn't sound like Danny Ainge is up for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,297 Posts
I think Danny is looking for something better, still plenty of time to get things done. I just dont see how Hinrich and Salmons puts them back in the championship picture, i just dont.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,493 Posts
I think Danny is looking for something better, still plenty of time to get things done. I just dont see how Hinrich and Salmons puts them back in the championship picture, i just dont.
It's not a home run, but it makes the Celtics better on defense(where they've slipped badly since 2008) and shouldn't hurt them on offense if Hinrich and Salmons can hit open jumpshots at a steady rate. Unless Ainge wants to swing for the fences and put together a package for Iguodala, Hinrich/Salmons/Thomas is one of the better trades for the Celtics.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,352 Posts
Not really. Chicago wants to stay competitive this year, but they'd absolutely love to rid themselves of Hinrich and Salmons' contracts this summer. Tyrus Thomas isn't really in Chicago's future plans, which is why they've been floating him as a sweetener in any Hinrich deal, I'm just asking that they continue to do so. Ray Allen is still a productive player, so Chicago's able to remain competitive this year(which will keep their fans and core players happy) while still clearing massive amounts of cap space for the summer. Makes perfect sense.
^this
Throwing TT in means basically nothing for us. Bcause there is almost no way we resign him. There are so many better options for us at PF via FA. And we already have a cheap backup in Gibson, not to mention JJ.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,297 Posts
It's not a home run, but it makes the Celtics better on defense(where they've slipped badly since 2008) and shouldn't hurt them on offense if Hinrich and Salmons can hit open jumpshots at a steady rate. Unless Ainge wants to swing for the fences and put together a package for Iguodala, Hinrich/Salmons/Thomas is one of the better trades for the Celtics.
Depends if you get the current hot shooting versions of Kirk and Salmons, they are just as capable of going through long stretches of not being able to hit ANYTHING even when wide open. If I was the Celtics I would be looking for another big man, you cant continue to put all your championship hopes on Garnet being healthy.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,493 Posts
Depends if you get the current hot shooting versions of Kirk and Salmons, they are just as capable of going through long stretches of not being able to hit ANYTHING even when wide open. If I was the Celtics I would be looking for another big man, you cant continue to put all your championship hopes on Garnet being healthy.
The issue is that we already have big money committed to KG and Sheed for two more seasons and don't really have valuable young guys to package for a Murphy/Jamison/Amare/Boozer, since Perk and Rondo clearly aren't on the table. Tyrus Thomas is probably about the best big man we're going to get unless we eat Brand's contract packaged with Iggy(which isn't feasible financially).
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
68,859 Posts
If we could do Hinrich/Salmons(/Tyrus) for Allen, we've gotta do it. Oodles of cap space for next year, and we won't fall off the planet this season after making it.

I'd hate to see Hinrich on the Celtics, but if it's there we should do it.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,320 Posts
Gibson, Noah and Miller is not enough depth for an NBA frontcourt... the fact that Gibson can be a hack has been covered up thus far by us having another PF in Thomas to play in his place when the fouls add up. The deal would probably hurt us in the short run, unless Ray Allen has more life left in his legs than I'm giving him credit for.

We'd have plenty of money left for 2010... and if we don't get anyone good in FA, well, I don't know where that leaves us - probably overpaying a guy like Amare Stoudemire and wallowing in mediocrity for another decade.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,753 Posts
Helps the Celtics this year as well.
That's why I wouldn't do it. It would make me sick to see Hinrich and Thomas playing with those scumbags.

As for the trade from our perspective, I'd still say no. As I've said before, I don't trade good young talent, which Hinrich is, for an expiring, just HOPING that we can lure some mythical free agent class in. If the Bulls tank, which they would due to no perimiter defenders once Kirk is traded, along with no quality backup PG, they wouldn't be too desirable with a scrub for a coach and no winning since the 90s.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,900 Posts
This would leave the Bulls with no frontcourt depth, two of them battling plantar fasciitis, and it would force them to play Miller for 30+ minutes again. Deng would have to play spot minutes at the 4, as well. We already saw what Kaman and Camby can do to the Bulls, and they're still getting burned by teams with distinct size advantages at the 4 and 5, such as Bargnani and Bosh, Bogut, and Jamison and Haywood, regardless of record.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,297 Posts
The issue is that we already have big money committed to KG and Sheed for two more seasons and don't really have valuable young guys to package for a Murphy/Jamison/Amare/Boozer, since Perk and Rondo clearly aren't on the table. Tyrus Thomas is probably about the best big man we're going to get unless we eat Brand's contract packaged with Iggy(which isn't feasible financially).
Well something like this would work.

3 way trade

Boston,Chicago and the Clippers

Bulls send Tyrus Thomas and Jerome James to Boston
Send John Salmons to LA

Celtics send Ray Allen to Chicago

LA sends Marcus Camby to Celtics and Ricky Davis to Chicago

Clippers receive
Tyrus Thomas
Jerome James
Tony Allen all expiring contracts

Chicago receives
Ray Allen and Ricky Davis both expiring.

Boston receives
Marcus Camby and John Salmons.

Not saying it makes much sense but its a possibility.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,352 Posts
That's why I wouldn't do it. It would make me sick to see Hinrich and Thomas playing with those scumbags.

As for the trade from our perspective, I'd still say no. As I've said before, I don't trade good young talent, which Hinrich is, for an expiring, just HOPING that we can lure some mythical free agent class in. If the Bulls tank, which they would due to no perimiter defenders once Kirk is traded, along with no quality backup PG, they wouldn't be too desirable with a scrub for a coach and no winning since the 90s.
I like Hinrich as much as anyone. But the fact is he is making 9 mil a year, playing the same position as our franchise (best) player. It doesn't make any sense to keep him. Especcially when going into the biggest FA class in the histery of the NBA. IMO anyone arguing to not trade Hinrich for expirings isn't thinking clearly. We are so close to becoming a perennial contender. All we have to do is put ourselves in the best position financially and wait about half a year and see what happens. If we traded Hinrich and Salmons there is a possibility that this team could have a starting lineup of:
PG: Rose
Sg: one of these three: Lebron/Wade/Joe Johnson/Gay
SF: Deng
PF: One of these four: Bosh/Lee/Boozer/Amare
C: Noah

Noone knows how likeley that is to occur... But someone is going to get these guys I don't see why it couldn't be us. If we could somehow manage to get Bosh and Lebron we would probably have the best team in the history of the NBA. If we could get any two of the above players we are the favorites in the NBA. If we only get one of Lebron/Bosh/Wade we are still favorites in the NBA.
The other thing is if we hold onto Hinrich when we could have traded him for expirings and say Wade is the guy who wants to come here than what kind of role does Hinrich play next year? Backup to Wade and Rose? There will be less than 25 minutes of that role. So we are going to pay 9 mil for a guy who backs up our two best players? There is just no way it makes sense to hold onto Hinrich. The only arguement is for the rest of this season which is a terrible arguement IMO.
 
1 - 20 of 87 Posts
Top