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I like Hinrich as much as anyone. But the fact is he is making 9 mil a year, playing the same position as our franchise (best) player. It doesn't make any sense to keep him. Especcially when going into the biggest FA class in the histery of the NBA. IMO anyone arguing to not trade Hinrich for expirings isn't thinking clearly. We are so close to becoming a perennial contender. All we have to do is put ourselves in the best position financially and wait about half a year and see what happens. If we traded Hinrich and Salmons there is a possibility that this team could have a starting lineup of:
PG: Rose
Sg: one of these three: Lebron/Wade/Joe Johnson/Gay
SF: Deng
PF: One of these four: Bosh/Lee/Boozer/Amare
C: Noah

Noone knows how likeley that is to occur... But someone is going to get these guys I don't see why it couldn't be us. If we could somehow manage to get Bosh and Lebron we would probably have the best team in the history of the NBA. If we could get any two of the above players we are the favorites in the NBA. If we only get one of Lebron/Bosh/Wade we are still favorites in the NBA.
The other thing is if we hold onto Hinrich when we could have traded him for expirings and say Wade is the guy who wants to come here than what kind of role does Hinrich play next year? Backup to Wade and Rose? There will be less than 25 minutes of that role. So we are going to pay 9 mil for a guy who backs up our two best players? There is just no way it makes sense to hold onto Hinrich. The only arguement is for the rest of this season which is a terrible arguement IMO.
100% Agree.

If we can get 2 of those 8 star free agents... wow!

I'd still like to keep TT (and do NOT understand why the Bulls are so down on him... maybe they just, like me, wish we could undo that draft day trade...).

Anyways... a SG/PF combo to pair with Rose/Deng/Noah... seriously... what team with cap space has a better 3 to go with? (cue the crickets). Even if we miss out on the top 2 at each position... and end up with say Joe Johnson and Boozer...

Rose/Johnson/Deng/Boozer/Noah.... uhh.... that's got to be a top 3 or 4 team in the NBA, maybe better; and with a good 5 years in their primes....

In summation: Do it!
 

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Gibson, Noah and Miller is not enough depth for an NBA frontcourt... the fact that Gibson can be a hack has been covered up thus far by us having another PF in Thomas to play in his place when the fouls add up. The deal would probably hurt us in the short run, unless Ray Allen has more life left in his legs than I'm giving him credit for.

We'd have plenty of money left for 2010... and if we don't get anyone good in FA, well, I don't know where that leaves us - probably overpaying a guy like Amare Stoudemire and wallowing in mediocrity for another decade.
Well, a few responses to this.

A) There is no short run, the Bulls have a .500 record right now, playing a top 10 point guard with no high-level scorer to pass to. Absolute best case scenario is a first round upset followed by prompt dismissal in the second round.

B) Even if they don't trade him, Tyrus Thomas won't be back next year unless the Bulls get shut out in free agency. Re-signing Thomas kills enough of Chicago's current cap room that they won't be able to simultaneously bring in a high-level talent unless they execute a sign-and-trade in which they ship out Deng. I promise you're better off keeping Deng over Thomas.

C) If you're worried about clearing cap room only to sign the wrong free agent and wind up mediocre.......what expectations do you have for this current core? Noah's going to require a large extension in 2011 and Rose in 2012, making this summer the best opportunity to upgrade the roster.

D)Hinrich will turn 30 next season, and Salmons is already 30 - neither player is going to get any better than they currently are. That's fine for a veteran team, but Noah and Deng are 24 and Rose is 21. By the time the Bulls core hits their prime, Hinrich and Salmons will both be washed up, or close to it. Why hold onto them at the expense of trying to add another top young player?
 

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Well, a few responses to this.

A) There is no short run, the Bulls have a .500 record right now, playing a top 10 point guard with no high-level scorer to pass to. Absolute best case scenario is a first round upset followed by prompt dismissal in the second round.

B) Even if they don't trade him, Tyrus Thomas won't be back next year unless the Bulls get shut out in free agency. Re-signing Thomas kills enough of Chicago's current cap room that they won't be able to simultaneously bring in a high-level talent unless they execute a sign-and-trade in which they ship out Deng. I promise you're better off keeping Deng over Thomas.

C) If you're worried about clearing cap room only to sign the wrong free agent and wind up mediocre.......what expectations do you have for this current core? Noah's going to require a large extension in 2011 and Rose in 2012, making this summer the best opportunity to upgrade the roster.

D)Hinrich will turn 30 next season, and Salmons is already 30 - neither player is going to get any better than they currently are. That's fine for a veteran team, but Noah and Deng are 24 and Rose is 21. By the time the Bulls core hits their prime, Hinrich and Salmons will both be washed up, or close to it. Why hold onto them at the expense of trying to add another top young player?
^this
Now I just wish more of the Bulls fans understood this.
 

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Why not try Hinrich and Deng for Ray Allen, that way we can sign two max free agents. I think Ray Allen/John Salmons manning the wing positions would allow us to be a formidable team for the rest of this year.
 

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Why not try Hinrich and Deng for Ray Allen, that way we can sign two max free agents. I think Ray Allen/John Salmons manning the wing positions would allow us to be a formidable team for the rest of this year.
I like that trade from the Celtics point of view, but I can't see Chicago wanting to get rid of Deng. He actually makes sense long-term for the Bulls and his contract isn't bad in light of his production. If the Bulls wanted to lose him in a straight salary dump he'd already be gone.
 

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No way should Noah even come close to looking for a near max extension. Lets see what Lee gets in the off-season, Noah should make less than Lee.
 

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100% Agree.

If we can get 2 of those 8 star free agents... wow!

I'd still like to keep TT (and do NOT understand why the Bulls are so down on him... maybe they just, like me, wish we could undo that draft day trade...).

Anyways... a SG/PF combo to pair with Rose/Deng/Noah... seriously... what team with cap space has a better 3 to go with? (cue the crickets). Even if we miss out on the top 2 at each position... and end up with say Joe Johnson and Boozer...

Rose/Johnson/Deng/Boozer/Noah.... uhh.... that's got to be a top 3 or 4 team in the NBA, maybe better; and with a good 5 years in their primes....

In summation: Do it!
Yeah that's the beauty of it. Even if we miss out on Wade, Bosh, and Lebron. There are still plenty of other guys out there that we could get that would make us legit contenders. And to be honest I didn't even really look at the rest of the FA class because there are a few guys I left off the list like Dirk.
 

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Why not try Hinrich and Deng for Ray Allen, that way we can sign two max free agents. I think Ray Allen/John Salmons manning the wing positions would allow us to be a formidable team for the rest of this year.
Because Deng is a very talented player and would be a huge part of our team going forward. Hinrich is not a big part of our team going forward which is why we should trade him.
 

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No way should Noah even come close to looking for a near max extension. Lets see what Lee gets in the off-season, Noah should make less than Lee.
I said he'd get a large extension, not a max extension. In reference to Lee, considering that Noah plays defense and blocks shots, of which Lee does neither, Noah will likely get a contract equal to or slightly more than what Lee gets. Joakim's not going to get Bosh-type money, obviously, but he'll average at least 10 million a year. The point is that his extension is going to be large enough to put a serious dent in Chicago's payroll.
 

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Well, a few responses to this.

A) There is no short run, the Bulls have a .500 record right now, playing a top 10 point guard with no high-level scorer to pass to. Absolute best case scenario is a first round upset followed by prompt dismissal in the second round.

B) Even if they don't trade him, Tyrus Thomas won't be back next year unless the Bulls get shut out in free agency. Re-signing Thomas kills enough of Chicago's current cap room that they won't be able to simultaneously bring in a high-level talent unless they execute a sign-and-trade in which they ship out Deng. I promise you're better off keeping Deng over Thomas.

C) If you're worried about clearing cap room only to sign the wrong free agent and wind up mediocre.......what expectations do you have for this current core? Noah's going to require a large extension in 2011 and Rose in 2012, making this summer the best opportunity to upgrade the roster.

D)Hinrich will turn 30 next season, and Salmons is already 30 - neither player is going to get any better than they currently are. That's fine for a veteran team, but Noah and Deng are 24 and Rose is 21. By the time the Bulls core hits their prime, Hinrich and Salmons will both be washed up, or close to it. Why hold onto them at the expense of trying to add another top young player?
Very well said
 

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Because Deng is a very talented player and would be a huge part of our team going forward. Hinrich is not a big part of our team going forward which is why we should trade him.
Getting rid of both of them would allow us to sign a max free agent. Allen/Salmons/Devin Brown should allow us to finish out as an above .500 team.

Then as long term pieces going into the off season we have Derrick Rose, Taj Gibson, and Joakim Noah. I think that we would be able to get Dwyane Wade/Chris Bosh both if we were to make these trades. I think you could sell Wade and Bosh that playing with Rose and Noah is better than Chalmers and Beasley in Miami.

Getting rid of both Hinrich/Deng in the same trade would just make us ridiculous power players in 2010 free agency. Especially making a trade like the one proposed here, that would keep us as a playoff team for this season.
 

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Getting rid of both of them would allow us to sign a max free agent. Allen/Salmons/Devin Brown should allow us to finish out as an above .500 team.

Then as long term pieces going into the off season we have Derrick Rose, Taj Gibson, and Joakim Noah. I think that we would be able to get Dwyane Wade/Chris Bosh both if we were to make these trades. I think you could sell Wade and Bosh that playing with Rose and Noah is better than Chalmers and Beasley in Miami.

Getting rid of both Hinrich/Deng in the same trade would just make us ridiculous power players in 2010 free agency. Especially making a trade like the one proposed here, that would keep us as a playoff team for this season.
Depending on what the cap is we could potentially sign 2 max players just by moving Hinrich and Salmons. They would take about 15 mil off the books. Which would only leave us with about 23 mil in guaranteed contracts next year. So 2 max contracts plus our guaranteed salary only puts us at 56 mil. Which means we would be in the range of what the salary cap might be. But regardless I don't see the point in getting rid of a guy who will fill a major role for us. As we have all started to see on a much more frequent basis Deng can hit the 3 ball, midrange jumpshot, very good around the rim and in open court, rebound, and defend. His weakness is that he is not a very good ballhandler. But only so many guys can handle the ball and if we are going to add stars we would want a guy like Deng. Barring injury he is a perfect fit for us going forward. I would be completeley against trading him going into this offseason.
Plus these FA would be coming to the Bulls to win and play in a major market. The winning part would not look near as attractive to FA's without Deng on the squad.
 

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Getting rid of both of them would allow us to sign a max free agent. Allen/Salmons/Devin Brown should allow us to finish out as an above .500 team.

Then as long term pieces going into the off season we have Derrick Rose, Taj Gibson, and Joakim Noah. I think that we would be able to get Dwyane Wade/Chris Bosh both if we were to make these trades. I think you could sell Wade and Bosh that playing with Rose and Noah is better than Chalmers and Beasley in Miami.

Getting rid of both Hinrich/Deng in the same trade would just make us ridiculous power players in 2010 free agency. Especially making a trade like the one proposed here, that would keep us as a playoff team for this season.
......and if you don't get Wade/Bosh/Lebron/Johnson then what? None of those players are guaranteed to move, and if they do they aren't guaranteed to come to Chicago. It's one thing to dump guys that don't fit into your long-term plans to create cap space, but once you start dumping productive young players you're really betting the franchise on the free agent market. Substituting Deng for Salmons in the trade creates an additional 5.5 million in cap space this summer, so the question boils down to whether Deng is worth 5.5 million to the Bulls. I say yes.

However, if the Bulls want to give Deng to the Celtics then by all means go ahead, it would make my day. I just don't see how it makes sense for Chicago.
 

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Allen is not worth a mid 1st round pick.
draft picks are usually very overhyped.

in last years draft
.14 earl clark
15. austin daye
16.james johnson
.17 jrue holiday

when a draft pick pays off its a real coup but with lets say pax's draft record i wouldn't make it a deal breaker

i think tyrus kirk and jerome james is quite fair ...or kirk and miller ...allen is a 35 year old 2 guard he is probably on his last legs whether or not we see it yet , i am sure the celts know it which is why they want to deal him while they can still get something for him and dont want to resign him.

truth is i dont feel he is worth kirk alone , how many times have we seen old players dealt while they are still effective and on their new team their effectiveness drops off the table ...i dont think allen is worth the risk as a player ...as a salary coming off the books thats another story...but then the bulls better be successful ...no ben wallaces or ron mercers this go round.
 

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I think a lot of people make way too much out of the whole "Wade (or whomever) would have a better team in Chicago, ergo we could convince him to come here". The reality is all of these FA's can sign for an extra year with their own teams, make 30 million more and historically speaking for players its all about the money. I don't think, generally speaking, a guy like Wade is looking at Chicago's roster and pining to be there. He is more likely supporting his team and hoping Riley can land Bosh, Boozer or someone like that in the offseason, something Miami will be trying to do. Bosh reportedly loves Canada and is more than happy to stay there for a max deal that Toronto reportedly will pay. Joe Johnson turned down a 4 year 60 million dollar extension with Atlanta which means he pretty much wants a 5 year max deal, maybe we can throw that at him and get him but is he worth it? Maybe. No telling what the Knicks will do with Lee, my guess is pay him big dollars when they strike out on Lebron (who plays on his hometown team, a team that has a great record and has made major addittions to keep him happy...and again one he can make 30 million more playing with). Amare is talking opting in with Phoenix, maybe he does or maybe he gets signed to a new deal for them, or maybe he walks (I'm not crazy about him anyway). Boozer is probably the most gettable guy out there but I recall Paxson saying some very unflattering things about him in the media when Boozer screwed over his brother in Cleveland, I don't see that happening.

So, to summarize, as fans we look at more where a guy will fit, will he be better with X team or Y team. As players, they look at "where will I make the most money, which city has the best climate, nightlife etc"

Wade- Stays with Miami, will make $30mil more there, warm climate, happening night scene, committed to adding another FA (probably Boozer).

Lebron- Stays home, literally. Plays for his hometown team, can make $30mil more, team seems committed to adding pieces.

Johnson- turned down a generous offer from Atlanta who is a pretty good team. Looks pretty mercenary for a max offer might be had for one but that also might be overpaying.

Bosh- Will get a max offer from Toronto and likely take it.

Lee- Could change teams, may get a nice offer from NY if NY strikes out in FA but maybe NY overpays Johnson and/or Boozer and Lee is left hanging?

Boozer- Most available FA of all, Utah paid Milsap, they won't pay both of them, probably joins his buddy and training partner Wade in Miami.


So, really the only likely available targets are: Johnson, Boozer, and potentially Lee. Those are the guys we should look at seriously and I would rule out Boozer because of history and be leery of paying Johnson a full max deal, Lee may or may not be available and I would love to add him for someething just under the max if possible.


ACE
 
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