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I think Danny is looking for something better, still plenty of time to get things done. I just dont see how Hinrich and Salmons puts them back in the championship picture, i just dont.
Of course Danny is waiting to check out all offers.

Gives them more depth.

Also Ray has had a bad year in terms of what is expected of him. That being said, having him on the Bulls would be great! Would spread the floor once again and give Rose and Allen more room to operate.

Ray is only shooting 34% in threes, but teams still have to respect him.

Maybe they need Kirk for his d? I dont know. I fell kinda the way you do. Dont know why they would want Salmons, but hey, thats ok with me. LOL
 

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Why not try Hinrich and Deng for Ray Allen, that way we can sign two max free agents. I think Ray Allen/John Salmons manning the wing positions would allow us to be a formidable team for the rest of this year.
I wouldnt do it unless we resign Allen on the cheap next year. We would miss Deng's rebounding and that could cost us some games.

Deng would be a good 3rd or 4th option on this team next year.
 

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Getting rid of both of them would allow us to sign a max free agent. Allen/Salmons/Devin Brown should allow us to finish out as an above .500 team.

Then as long term pieces going into the off season we have Derrick Rose, Taj Gibson, and Joakim Noah. I think that we would be able to get Dwyane Wade/Chris Bosh both if we were to make these trades. I think you could sell Wade and Bosh that playing with Rose and Noah is better than Chalmers and Beasley in Miami.

Getting rid of both Hinrich/Deng in the same trade would just make us ridiculous power players in 2010 free agency. Especially making a trade like the one proposed here, that would keep us as a playoff team for this season.
That would be the ideal off season!

But how do we address the SF for next year because I dont see them resigning Salmons. Are we real contenders with Brown and maybe JJ at the sf position? Depending on where we pick from in the draft, I doubt that a SF can come in and play well for us.
 

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I agree with a lot of your post especially about Wade and Boozer in Miami together and about Lebron likely re-signing, but not this part. I think the chances that Bosh stays in Toronto are very, very low. I think a haul of JJ and Bosh or Rudy and Bosh is in the mix for the Bulls if they can get rid of some of these contracts. That leaves them with a championship contending core for sure.
I too think JJ to the Bulls is a real possibility. I have read on many boards for the last year Bulls fans asking why in the hell would JJ leave the Hawks? Well, this is Joe Johnson we are speaking about! He left a good Suns team to sign with the Hawks! That core was awful. Just awful the first year or two.
The Bulls have a better core than the Hawks did. I am not saying we have a better core now.

I hope we land Bosh as well.
 

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Oh I agree Casey, we definitley have to take a shot, we need another star on this team for sure! I just don't think our odds are nearly as good as some hope. A lot of people make it seem like a foregone conclusion that Wade or Lebron will sign here, that would be lovely but I am just saying it isn't likely. We still need to be in a position to make it happen if we should be so lucky. Of course, I'm not so sure about needing to free up enough cap to add TWO free agents since we will probably be lucky to get one although there is some merit to that line of thinking also.

ACE
There are not only Bulls fans, but many beat writers and bloggers think that as well. Personally, I dont think it is a foregone conclusion at all. I would love it if one or the other sings with us.
 

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There seems to be some sort of feeling that the Bulls NEED to make a run at Wade/Lebron and Bosh for this to be a successful summer. Keep in mind that Rose has the ability to be a top 10 player in the league, and they already have a good young center in Noah and a great utility man in Deng. They just need talented scorers, but not necessarily elite players, at the power forward and swingman positions. Wade/Bosh would be fantastic, but Iguodala and Jefferson probably make this roster a championship-caliber team.
We need another star, no doubt, we need some shooters. We need a big man that can score. That could be Bosh right there. Bosh, and some shooters? That could be enough to make us contenders.

Getting some shooters and Bosh on this team would open it up for Rose!
 

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There are not only Bulls fans, but many beat writers and bloggers think that as well. Personally, I dont think it is a foregone conclusion at all. I would love it if one or the other sings with us.

Foregone conclusion...have they contact to some fortune tellers? ;)


LeBron would be the bigger surprise as a new Bulls player this summer. But who knows?
 

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I am really torn here b/c I think trading Deng, as opposed to Hinrich would be better. Why?

1) Deng's contract is going up which will make the Bulls have less money this summer compared to Hinrich's whose salary is going down. Hinrichs salary helps them in free agency & Dengs doesn't.

2) With the economy the way it is, now is the time to lock players up, not 2 years ago at the peak. This is why getting rid of Deng's contract would be the best thing for the Bulls. It is the only contract that is creating a glut preventing them to run lean into 2010 free agency. This is b/c it is long term (5 years), going up in price, & was signed just before the economy started to slow down. View Dengs contract like the loan outstanding on a house purchased in 2007. It is underwater!

3) We could get a player similar to Deng in Outlaw, who has been injured all season, thus having a low market value at this time. Or we could get Rudy Gay. Last year the market set a low value for SFs with the signings of ARTEST & Ariza who signed for the MLE.

4) I think it will be much harder to find a replacement for Hinrich than it will be for Deng i.e. Gay, Outlaw, etc..., b/c Kirk does so much more than score. Like Rose said, “Kirk is our glue guy”.

5) Hinrich has said he would prefer to stay in Chicago even knowing about the offers from two potential championship teams (LA & Boston). This loyalty makes me think he would sign for significantly less in 2.5 years than what he signed for last time. This is especially true if we were competitive for a title. We just need 1 more significant piece and were there.
I couldn't agree more, mainly due to the bolded parts. As I've said for years, Kirk's defense and versatility is invaluable. Why do you think the teams that always want him are the contenders, even though they'd use him as a 6th man? Because D wins, and he is a good defender, can play both the 1 and the 2, and when he's hot can hit the 3. Deng is a dime a dozen SF. Pick up Rudy Gay in FA....he's the one guy I really think the Bulls could definitely target and have a very good chance at signing, as I don't think he'll resign in Memphis and what athletic wing like him wouldn't wanna play with Rose?

My offseason, as I said before, would result in this lineup as the top 7:

Rose/Hinrich
Hinrich/Gay
Gay/JJ
Stoudemire (or Bosh)/Gibson
Noah/Gibson

Trade up in the draft to secure either Aldrich or a 2/3.
 

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To really move Deng, you would presumably need an interested team who is willing to provide loads of cap space to the Bulls and a team particularly lacking in the skill areas Luol brings to the table. The major expiring deals possibly on the market right now are Big Z (Cavs), Ray Allen (Celtics), Carlos Boozer (Jazz), Tracy McGrady (Rockets), Brendan Haywood (Wizards), Kenny Thomas (Kings), Josh Howard (Mavs), Marcus Camby (Clippers), and Manu Ginobili (Spurs). Other large expiring deals out there that are probably not really on the market include Jermaine O'Neal and Udonis Haslem (Heat), Bobby Simmons (Nets), Larry Hughes and Al Harrington (Knicks), and Chris Bosh (Raptors).

First, let me tackle the ones not really on the market. The Raptors have recently indicated that they will be keeping Bosh through the end of the year for their playoff run. The Knicks, Heat, and Nets have to keep every bit of their upcoming salary cap space for the offseason. That rules out those 4 teams.

Second, let's take a stab at the teams on which Deng wouldn't make much sense. The Celtics are not in the market for another swing man. They need a ball-handling guard or a big man. The Cavs would probably consider Deng their third or 4th option at the PF spot (behind at least Murphy and Jamison) since Deng would be playing out of position for them. The Spurs already made their play for an athletic SF last offseason with the Richard Jefferson move.

Third, I'll look at the teams on which Deng isn't a completely ideal fit. The Rockets spent money last offseason upgrading their 3-position with Trevor Ariza. Also, Battier is arguably their most complete defensive player, and he also plays the 3. This team is looking to upgrade at either the 2 or the 4 spot right now. A Deng/Salmons for Haywood/Mike Miller trade would make a lot of sense for both teams... if the Wizards are able to move Caron Butler in another deal for a scoring SG (like possibly Kevin Martin). Otherwise, the Wizards are not looking to take on salary at a position where they already have an all-star player. The Mavs would love to do a Deng for Howard swap, but they don't have any intriguing young players to give the Bulls back. That's not enough cap space for the Bulls to give up one of their core pieces.

Fourth, let's discuss the only 3 destinations that seem plausible for a Deng-centric deal. The Jazz have been so red hot lately that trading Boozer seems unlikely, but why wouldn't they unless they truly think they can win a championship this season? Maybe they do, but if they don't... look at this trade for both teams. The Bulls trade Luol Deng/John Salmons/Lindsay Hunter for Carlos Boozer/Kyle Korver. The Bulls might just kill two birds with one stone on this trade. If they resign Boozer (and maybe even Korver, too... at a discount) this offseason, they would still have enough cap space to make a run at a top wing player.

The Kings might be interesting, as well. So let's say the trade looks like this: Deng/Salmons/Pargo for Kevin Martin/Kenny Thomas. This move frees up the SG spot for Tyreke Evans and upgrades the SF spot with a young asset. The Kings also stay very much alive in the John Wall sweepstakes. For the Bulls, the guard rotation would become Rose/Martin/Hinrich, and they would have just enough money to make a push for Bosh this offseason. That's definitely a possibility.

Another possible destination would be the Clippers. Their core group of guys consists of Griffin (a PF), Gordon (a SG), and Thornton (most ideally a 6th man). Deng would make a lot of sense in that line-up going into the future. Would the Bulls be willing to part with him for this package? Deng/Salmons for Camby/Mardy Collins/Ricky Davis/DeAndre Jordan/1st Round Pick? That's 3 expiring deals, one potential lottery pick, and one 21-year-old prospect (Jordan) for the Bulls. This move would open up a ton of cap space. Also if Camby likes playing in Chicago and if he likes the moves they make this offseason, he might think about signing a reasonable extension to play for a contender. This move makes the Bulls a big player in the Bosh, Wade, Lebron, JJ, and Boozer markets after the season.

For me, though, the possible destinations for Hinrich seem a little more appealing than the ones for Deng. What do you think?
 

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Like I said earlier the salary cap would have to be at around 56 mil or higher for them to be able to offer 2 max contracts. Which is within reason considering the cap was about 59 mil(or close) last year. So it is within reason as it is hard to guess what the cap will be now or how much it will drop.

Yes thats true too, it does depend on where the cap comes in at and all the estimates I have heard have been rather varied. At the start of the season we were hearing it could be reduced to as much as 50 million! Then forecasters said that the season hasn't been as bad as expected and that it looks more like it could be more around the 53 million range. I haven't heard the rosy 56 million range from anyone though I supposse anythings possible. I read an article today and it essentially said that if the Bulls traded both Hinrich & Salmons for expirings and let Tyrus go, they would have an estimated 30million under the cap, so that would be one max free agent and one pretty expensive guy. Maybe we would have enough to do Joe Johnson & David Lee? I assume that articles also is taking into account our draft pick and also that trading that for nothing would give us an addl. 1.5 mil or something.

ACE
 

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Yes thats true too, it does depend on where the cap comes in at and all the estimates I have heard have been rather varied. At the start of the season we were hearing it could be reduced to as much as 50 million! Then forecasters said that the season hasn't been as bad as expected and that it looks more like it could be more around the 53 million range. I haven't heard the rosy 56 million range from anyone though I supposse anythings possible. I read an article today and it essentially said that if the Bulls traded both Hinrich & Salmons for expirings and let Tyrus go, they would have an estimated 30million under the cap, so that would be one max free agent and one pretty expensive guy. Maybe we would have enough to do Joe Johnson & David Lee? I assume that articles also is taking into account our draft pick and also that trading that for nothing would give us an addl. 1.5 mil or something.

ACE
Yeah Joe Johnson and Lee would be nice. Our team would be stacked.
1.)Rose
2.)JJ
3.)Deng
4.)Lee
5.)Noah
That is a great starting lineup.

Personally I think the cap will be somewhere in the 57 mil range. I just don't see how the NBA could be doing so much worse this year VS last year. I think all of these projections were based on people thinking that the sky was falling. Just my opinion.
 

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To really move Deng, you would presumably need an interested team who is willing to provide loads of cap space to the Bulls and a team particularly lacking in the skill areas Luol brings to the table. The major expiring deals possibly on the market right now are Big Z (Cavs), Ray Allen (Celtics), Carlos Boozer (Jazz), Tracy McGrady (Rockets), Brendan Haywood (Wizards), Kenny Thomas (Kings), Josh Howard (Mavs), Marcus Camby (Clippers), and Manu Ginobili (Spurs). Other large expiring deals out there that are probably not really on the market include Jermaine O'Neal and Udonis Haslem (Heat), Bobby Simmons (Nets), Larry Hughes and Al Harrington (Knicks), and Chris Bosh (Raptors).

First, let me tackle the ones not really on the market. The Raptors have recently indicated that they will be keeping Bosh through the end of the year for their playoff run. The Knicks, Heat, and Nets have to keep every bit of their upcoming salary cap space for the offseason. That rules out those 4 teams.

Second, let's take a stab at the teams on which Deng wouldn't make much sense. The Celtics are not in the market for another swing man. They need a ball-handling guard or a big man. The Cavs would probably consider Deng their third or 4th option at the PF spot (behind at least Murphy and Jamison) since Deng would be playing out of position for them. The Spurs already made their play for an athletic SF last offseason with the Richard Jefferson move.

Third, I'll look at the teams on which Deng isn't a completely ideal fit. The Rockets spent money last offseason upgrading their 3-position with Trevor Ariza. Also, Battier is arguably their most complete defensive player, and he also plays the 3. This team is looking to upgrade at either the 2 or the 4 spot right now. A Deng/Salmons for Haywood/Mike Miller trade would make a lot of sense for both teams... if the Wizards are able to move Caron Butler in another deal for a scoring SG (like possibly Kevin Martin). Otherwise, the Wizards are not looking to take on salary at a position where they already have an all-star player. The Mavs would love to do a Deng for Howard swap, but they don't have any intriguing young players to give the Bulls back. That's not enough cap space for the Bulls to give up one of their core pieces.

Fourth, let's discuss the only 3 destinations that seem plausible for a Deng-centric deal. The Jazz have been so red hot lately that trading Boozer seems unlikely, but why wouldn't they unless they truly think they can win a championship this season? Maybe they do, but if they don't... look at this trade for both teams. The Bulls trade Luol Deng/John Salmons/Lindsay Hunter for Carlos Boozer/Kyle Korver. The Bulls might just kill two birds with one stone on this trade. If they resign Boozer (and maybe even Korver, too... at a discount) this offseason, they would still have enough cap space to make a run at a top wing player.

The Kings might be interesting, as well. So let's say the trade looks like this: Deng/Salmons/Pargo for Kevin Martin/Kenny Thomas. This move frees up the SG spot for Tyreke Evans and upgrades the SF spot with a young asset. The Kings also stay very much alive in the John Wall sweepstakes. For the Bulls, the guard rotation would become Rose/Martin/Hinrich, and they would have just enough money to make a push for Bosh this offseason. That's definitely a possibility.

Another possible destination would be the Clippers. Their core group of guys consists of Griffin (a PF), Gordon (a SG), and Thornton (most ideally a 6th man). Deng would make a lot of sense in that line-up going into the future. Would the Bulls be willing to part with him for this package? Deng/Salmons for Camby/Mardy Collins/Ricky Davis/DeAndre Jordan/1st Round Pick? That's 3 expiring deals, one potential lottery pick, and one 21-year-old prospect (Jordan) for the Bulls. This move would open up a ton of cap space. Also if Camby likes playing in Chicago and if he likes the moves they make this offseason, he might think about signing a reasonable extension to play for a contender. This move makes the Bulls a big player in the Bosh, Wade, Lebron, JJ, and Boozer markets after the season.

For me, though, the possible destinations for Hinrich seem a little more appealing than the ones for Deng. What do you think?
Very nice breakdown!

A couple of things I want to mention. The Kings said Martin is not on the block. I read it somewhere earlier. I would have done that trade

I would do the Clippers trade as well.

Stein basically said today that Deng will not be traded unless its in a package for one of the big three. Their idea is to have him as a third or 4th option.
 

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Yeah Joe Johnson and Lee would be nice. Our team would be stacked.
1.)Rose
2.)JJ
3.)Deng
4.)Lee
5.)Noah
That is a great starting lineup.

Personally I think the cap will be somewhere in the 57 mil range. I just don't see how the NBA could be doing so much worse this year VS last year. I think all of these projections were based on people thinking that the sky was falling. Just my opinion.

Maybe it will, I don't know, I know they are trying to bring players salaries into a more reasonable range but I don't think that impacts the cap until the CBA is negotiated. I know it has to do with where the league revenues come in. I wouldn't mind signing JJ & Lee though JJ's age and the fact that he wants a max deal kind of turns me off, I'd feel a lot more comfortable signing Wade if we could get him.

ACE
 

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Yes thats true too, it does depend on where the cap comes in at and all the estimates I have heard have been rather varied. At the start of the season we were hearing it could be reduced to as much as 50 million! Then forecasters said that the season hasn't been as bad as expected and that it looks more like it could be more around the 53 million range. I haven't heard the rosy 56 million range from anyone though I supposse anythings possible. I read an article today and it essentially said that if the Bulls traded both Hinrich & Salmons for expirings and let Tyrus go, they would have an estimated 30million under the cap, so that would be one max free agent and one pretty expensive guy. Maybe we would have enough to do Joe Johnson & David Lee? I assume that articles also is taking into account our draft pick and also that trading that for nothing would give us an addl. 1.5 mil or something.

ACE
We could do worse than JJ and Lee! If that is what we end up with a core of Deng, Rose, and Noah along with Gibson, then that is a nice team!

I think the idea that we have enough money for two of the top 5 FA this summer is not going to happen. We can sign one top 5, and a lesser FA. We can sign two tier 2 FA as you hinted to. Or the only way we can have two top five FA is if two of them got together, met with pax and JR and one of them takes a cut to fit into the cap. I see older vets doing that all of the time. It is a possibility, but being younger players as they are, I would think they would want their money now.
 

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The biggest problem we have is that the nets are not going to land any of:

Bosh
Wade
Lebron
Joe Johnson


this make it extremely likely that they will overpay for possibly two of:

Boozer
Lee
Gay
etc...

they and the knicks will likely overpay for any of those players.

as a result, we have to swing for the fences.......it's at least one of the big 4 or bust.......
 

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as a result, we have to swing for the fences.......it's at least one of the big 4 or bust.......
Not really, Derrick Rose is good enough that he should get to level where he can be the best player on a championship team. Even if the NY teams overpay for Boozer, Lee, Gay and/or others, trading for Jefferson and Iguodala(or any combination of a good forward and guard) is probably enough to win a title two or three years down the road(once Rose hits his prime). Chicago's not in the kind of all-or-nothing situation that the Knicks and Nets find themselves in right now.
 

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I'm starting to come down to the conclusion that it will be Amare in 2010, with the talks of a hard cap I cant see the others moving away from their cushy huge deals if they stay home. Amare wants out of Phoenix. If we lose out on Joe Johnson, the FA Market will look like this

1. Amare
2. Gay
3. Boozer
4. Lee

If we come out with Johnson IMO thats a huge win, hes a great player who can really do wonders for the Bulls, that being said if we dont get a big man like Bosh we are definitely going to need to start drafting better or we will have 0 chance of winning a title.
 

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On this Allen for Hinrich rumor, I just saw on hoopshype that the Celtics are hoping to land Kevin Martin for Ray Allen. While I can't blame Ainge for trying to get good value for Ray Allen, this is LOL stupid if the Kings actually accept that. Since when does any team salary dump a still-relatively-young dynamic 25 ppg scorer, regardless of how injured he's been? If Kings trade Kevin Martin to the Celtics, they had better get either 3+ future 1st rounders (oh wait, they already gave those up in the KG trade!) or give up one of their valuable young players, e.g., Kendrick Perkins (which ain't happening).
 

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On this Allen for Hinrich rumor, I just saw on hoopshype that the Celtics are hoping to land Kevin Martin for Ray Allen. While I can't blame Ainge for trying to get good value for Ray Allen, this is LOL stupid if the Kings actually accept that. Since when does any team salary dump a still-relatively-young dynamic 25 ppg scorer, regardless of how injured he's been? If Kings trade Kevin Martin to the Celtics, they had better get either 3+ future 1st rounders (oh wait, they already gave those up in the KG trade!) or give up one of their valuable young players, e.g., Kendrick Perkins (which ain't happening).
It won't be a straight up Martin for Allen swap, if it happens. My best guess would be that Boston would have to eat Nocioni's contract for Sacramento(making them players in free agency) and find a third team to get them a big man who can protect the rim. Either Sam Dalembert or a package of Tyrus Thomas+Hinrich or Salmons in exchange for Kenny Thomas' expiring would work(whichever team asks for less in return). I'd also like Boston to pick up Sergio Rodriquez(who's not playing major minutes) to finally give us a backup ball-handler, but he's obviously not a deal-breaker.

Martin and Nocioni(plus maybe Sergio) to Boston, Ray Allen and either Dalembert or Tyrus Thomas+Guard X to Sacramento, and Kenny Thomas' expiring plus maybe a minor asset to Third Team Y makes sense for all three teams involved and works financially, with additional minor players added in as needed to balance roster numbers.
 
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