Realistic trades for Zach et. al.

554 Views 17 Replies 13 Participants Last post by RW#30, Apr 4, 2006

meru

Discussion Starter · Apr 3, 2006

Does Zach get easier to trade in the off season? He's base year at the moment, will he be totally not BY this Summer, or just less so?

With that in mind, given that we all want Miles and Theo gone, and most of us want Zach gone, let's have some realistic trades that would actually work. By "realistic" I don't mean Zach-for-KG. I mean more like Zach and Miles for Jalen Rose and a couple of second-rounders. I think we have to assume that we're dumping at this point and every other team knows it. What would be nice would be to get some player who turns out to be what Darryl Armstrong was for the Magic when they cleaned house to take a shot at Tim Duncan. (That team should be held up to the current Blazers as a source of shame: they had NOBODY but they still nearly made the playoffs.)

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goglik

· #2 · Apr 3, 2006

I had to respond to this thread.
Why in the world would you trade a very talented power forward (who just started draining threes) for Jalen. There is almost no pf in this league who has a better soft touch than Zach. If we trade him, the whole world will laugh at us again. Since we traded Jermaine and he got good, we will trade Zach and he gets good.

Fork

· #3 · Apr 3, 2006

meru said:
Does Zach get easier to trade in the off season? He's base year at the moment, will he be totally not BY this Summer, or just less so?

With that in mind, given that we all want Miles and Theo gone, and most of us want Zach gone, let's have some realistic trades that would actually work. By "realistic" I don't mean Zach-for-KG. I mean more like Zach and Miles for Jalen Rose and a couple of second-rounders. I think we have to assume that we're dumping at this point and every other team knows it. What would be nice would be to get some player who turns out to be what Darryl Armstrong was for the Magic when they cleaned house to take a shot at Tim Duncan. (That team should be held up to the current Blazers as a source of shame: they had NOBODY but they still nearly made the playoffs.)

Yeah, lets trade Zach and Miles for Jalen Rose and Theo for Jamal Mashburn.

Then we can set a record for fewest wins in a year.

I'm looking forward to that.

Utherhimo

· #4 · Apr 3, 2006

how does rose help the team? horrid trade

yeah if that trade happens i see us going 2 - 80 oh yeah thats smart

RedHot&Rolling

· #5 · Apr 3, 2006

Although I might be on this same page with you in January '07 - today I am not. I want to see Zach when he's not surrounded by knuckleheads who influence his every move in life.

Jalen Rose isn't on my radar either. :raised_ey

If we did attempt to trade Zach away now - I'd hope we draft a PF this draft (either Aldridge or Thomas) and that we attempt to get Sean May (CHA), Stomile Swift (HOU) for the next season or two until draft choice is ready to play.

I'd like to get Amare, Bogut, Frye, or Jefferson - but I doubt we could for Zach at this point. Our best bet is to bring Zach back next season and hope he recovers completely from the injuries and (negative) influential teammates.

meru

Discussion Starter · #6 · Apr 3, 2006

Utherhimo said:
how does rose help the team?

Um...

1) He isn't Zach.
2) His contract expires sooner than any of our dead wood.

I think you'll be surprised how few teams would have any interest in Randolph. If he's any good, why do we suck so badly?

NBAGOD

· #7 · Apr 3, 2006

The key word here is "realistic". Realistically there isn't much of a market for mediocre players with bad contracts and/or injury concerns. If the Blazers want to unload their problems, they'll have to take back somebody elses or sweeten the pot with young prospects and/or draft picks.

Ed O

· #8 · Apr 3, 2006

I am more than happy to trade Zach, or Darius.

Or Telfair or Webster.

We just need to get better players one way or the other.

But I don't want to sacrifice our future to trade for veterans to get to mediocrity, and I don't want to trade our few capable players in the name of attitude adjustment or public relations or salary situations.

The Blazers should look at the best player available when they pick. If it's Aldridge or Thomas, take him and work it out with Zach. If it's Morrison or Gay, take him and work it out with Darius. If it's Marcus Williams, take him and work it out with Telfair/Jack/Blake. If it's Brandon Roy, take him and work it out with Webster.

"Work it out" could mean a variety of things... move one of the guys to another position, or let the rookie come along behind the veteran for a year or two, or trade the veteran, or simply let the two (or three, or however many are in the mix) compete for playing time. On a team this bad, nothing should be sacred and nothing should be taken for granted.

This is the perfect opportunity for the Blazers to ignore what they've currently got and simply go for an upgrade in talent. I hope that they take advantage of it.

Ed O.

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e_blazer1

· #9 · Apr 3, 2006

The issue isn't trading Zach, it's getting one or two more consistent scoring threats so that opponents can't constantly throw double teams at him. Zach's probably never going to be the best PF in the game, but you can't deny that he's a major scorer. Right now, on a team that averages what, 80 points?, you can't afford to give away your top offensive threat. Zach needs to get healthy this summer, come back with an attitude and hopefully find a teammate or two who will penalize teams for the attention they throw at Zach on a nightly basis.

meru

Discussion Starter · #10 · Apr 3, 2006

Fork said:
Yeah, lets trade Zach and Miles for Jalen Rose and Theo for Jamal Mashburn.

Then we can set a record for fewest wins in a year.

I'm looking forward to that.

Hey, at least that'd be SOMETHING. Then the Blazers would get national media attention!
I remember watching the Clippers the year they started by losing 16 in a row and the record was (I think) 17. It was great! Every game was like the NBA finals!

Besides, do you HONESTLY think
a) it would be appreciably worse than this
b) Zach is ever going to be a player on a half-way decent team? He's Shareef without the psychotic fanboy or the nice-guy persona.

meru

Discussion Starter · #11 · Apr 3, 2006

e_blazer1 said:
The issue isn't trading Zach, it's getting one or two more consistent scoring threats so that opponents can't constantly throw double teams at him. Zach's probably never going to be the best PF in the game, but you can't deny that he's a major scorer. Right now, on a team that averages what, 80 points?, you can't afford to give away your top offensive threat.

I think this is a common misperception - that trading a big scorer means a comparable drop in scoring. If anything, team scoring might go up. I bet you Zach's game is one of the reasons we don't run more. Plus, he's a black hole. On nights he's bricking it, that's x fewer shots for other people.

Besides, we'll have drafted Adam Morrison - he'll take up the scoring slack, right?

Zach needs to get healthy this summer, come back with an attitude and hopefully find a teammate or two who will penalize teams for the attention they throw at Zach on a nightly basis.

He already has an attitude - that's the problem.
I think he's as healthy as he's going to be. He just isn't very bright and he isn't going to change his game enough to be useful. Why put scorers "round" him when they're unlikely to see the ball after it goes to him in the post?

Scout226

· #12 · Apr 3, 2006

Ed O said:
Or Telfair or Webster.

That would be another JO type mistake IMO. I think he's going to contribute a lot faster and probably more than our other young guys.

e_blazer1

· #13 · Apr 4, 2006

meru said:
I think this is a common misperception - that trading a big scorer means a comparable drop in scoring. If anything, team scoring might go up. I bet you Zach's game is one of the reasons we don't run more. Plus, he's a black hole. On nights he's bricking it, that's x fewer shots for other people.

I'm not a big fan of Zach's game, and if you could get a quality player back for him I'd be happy to move him. I just don't think that's going to happen this summer. One of the biggest problems this franchise has had in recent years is moving players at the lowest point of their market value. Zach had much better seasons before his injury and MAY be able to get back to that level again. Right now, with so many years left on his contract and a concern that he's damaged goods, there's no way you get anything back other than another player with a bad contract. There's no reason not to wait and see if his market value will improve in the future. As far as that "black hole" thing goes, he'd probably pass more if he thought there was someone out there who was actually going to make a shot. I think you'd see him be much more effective if he wasn't being doubled and tripled all the time. To change that, you've got to put more talent around him.

Besides, we'll have drafted Adam Morrison - he'll take up the scoring slack, right?

Are you interested in the bridge I have for sale? :biggrin:

Morrison may grow into a superstar or he may be the next bust as the "Great White Hope" (see Keith van Horn's career). One thing he won't be is an instant savior.

He already has an attitude - that's the problem.
I think he's as healthy as he's going to be. He just isn't very bright and he isn't going to change his game enough to be useful. Why put scorers "round" him when they're unlikely to see the ball after it goes to him in the post?

Click to expand...

You're entitled to your opinions, but I see nothing that says that more time won't be likely to improve his knee. It won't make him smarter, but I think he can still improve in his understanding of the game with Nate working with him.

Like I said before, his trade value is about as low as it's going to get. I see nothing to be lost by putting some better players around him and seeing if he improves.

mediocre man

· #14 · Apr 4, 2006

How about Zach to Chicago for E Rob, Harrington, Piatkowski and NY's pick

I'm sure that doesn't work for either base year comp reasons or they have already been traded, but that would be my trade. It certainly isn't "fair" value, but Thomas and Morrison in the draft would be nice because they are both hard workers. The other thing it might do is entice another team to send us a perenial all star for one or both of those picks

I posted this in another thread, but it's so brilliant that I decided to plagerize myself

Ed O

· #15 · Apr 4, 2006

Scout226 said:
That would be another JO type mistake IMO. I think he's going to contribute a lot faster and probably more than our other young guys.

It depends on the other side of the trade, obviously.

Trading Jermaine O'Neal for Kobe Bryant wouldn't have been a mistake. The reason that trading Jermaine hurts is because we got a guy in Dale Davis that (a) didn't get us over the hump, and (b) was on the down side of his career when we got him.

I don't think we should trade Webster just to be rid of him, but I think that way about each Blazer. If we were to trade Webster, I'd need it to be part of a big deal that makes the Blazers better now and into the future.

Ed O.

NWsportsfan

· #16 · Apr 4, 2006

How can u hate Zach, this guy is like the base of our team. He has got such a great soft touch, and he can shoot threes now!!!!!!!! Why trade him, we had jermaine o'neal, lets not let Zach be that regretful trade.

crowTrobot

· #17 · Apr 4, 2006

mediocre man said:
How about Zach to Chicago for E Rob, Harrington, Piatkowski and NY's pick

I'm sure that doesn't work for either base year comp reasons or they have already been traded, but that would be my trade. It certainly isn't "fair" value, but Thomas and Morrison in the draft would be nice because they are both hard workers. The other thing it might do is entice another team to send us a perenial all star for one or both of those picks

I posted this in another thread, but it's so brilliant that I decided to plagerize myself

another pipe dream scenerio that doesn't reach high enough lol. as long as we're dreaming i'd say zach straight up for kg.

RW#30

· #18 · Apr 4, 2006

NWsportsfan said:
How can u hate Zach, this guy is like the base of our team. He has got such a great soft touch, and he can shoot threes now!!!!!!!! Why trade him, we had jermaine o'neal, lets not let Zach be that regretful trade.

*

And you want your PF to shoot 3's? How about ST posting up?

Zach needs to work harder and establish him in the paint. He has the "Cliff" syndrome. Robinson was the best defender out of collage the blazers drafted in the past 15 years. 5 yrs into his career he got lazy and all he did is throwing up long balls.

I agree with Ed. Trade any one on this team. Just improve the team and the talent level. This is not about not liking Zach.

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