[Ron Cey]

Tyson Chandler has most certainly had a roller coaster season. It appeared as though he bounced back from his awful start admirably, but lately he's back in a funk.

I just hope he returns to his earlier quality play in time for this final stretch.

I'm still glad the Bulls re-signed Tyson. I think the way the season started for him, ugly and infuriating as it was, was an anomoly. If he goes in the crapper again next season, I'll start to be concerned.

 

[Ron Cey]

Ok but let's forget his start to the season. What about the ESPN guys ragging on him for his disappearances in big games THIS past week? Tyson was a complete noshow for Milwaukee and Washington, perhaps our two biggest games of the year.

Guys have bad games. I don't attribute a bad game to a guy sucking. Gordon has had some very bad games recently during this crucial stretch as well.

Like I said, Tyson rebounded very well from his atrocious start but now he is in a state of regression. I hope he turns it around again. Tyson has had "big games" in "big games" in the past. In 6 career playoff games he's averaged 12 points, 10 boards and over 2 blocks per game.

I don't believe he's pulling some soft hearted disappearing act. I think he just had a couple of bad games. I'm not happy about it by any means, but I don't think it means he "sucks". I remain pleased with the signing.

I appreciate your stance Ron, as I know from past experience that you can admit when you are flat wrong (so I know you're not just being stubborn on this one), but let me ask this. Is our appraisal of guys in Tyson's shoes influenced, perhaps even primarily, by how much we "like" them?

Who is "our"? If by "our" you include yourself then feel free to answer your own question.

As to me, I don't like Tyson Chandler. I think he's a hot-head prone to idiotic outbursts who, at times, lets his temper affect team success. I suspect if I really knew him, I wouldn't care for him at all. I do, however, think he will prove worthy of his contract and I approve of resigning him. I do think he cares and I do think he will rebound from his bizarre year with a far better season next year.

I "like" one player on the Bulls and that is Luol Deng. He's the only guy I have a somewhat irrational soft spot for. Luckily for me, he justifies my irrational fandom with quality play.

 

[Ron Cey]

Being a sports fan is a diversion from mundane "real life" and as such should be fun. Because our rants on this board have no effect on the Bulls organization there is really no reason to hold some kind of sacrosanct opinion of "truth". Ultimately, this is all just a distraction from our lives and therefore it is not irrational for a fan to maximize their enjoyment by being optimistic. If people really want to make a statement, stop buying tickets and boycott Bulls sponsors. Consistently raining on other peoples parade accomplishes nothing except making the "rainer" feel better about themselves because they've exposed what they percieve to be other peoples naiveté.

I enjoy my optimism.

 

[Ron Cey]

This to me is a very fair, very desirable stance. I'm not exactly looking for people to say "I hate Tyson." But for someone to not be able to AT LEAST come to this level of scrutiny of the young man is unfathomable to me. Good post.

Come on. This has gotten ridiculous. Tyson Chandler has been criticized up and down all season long and virtually every single poster on this board has acknowledged his poor play.

Who are you even talking about? Maybe one poster that you have beef with, but thats it.

Fans don't seem to criticize Tyson as loudly or as obnoxiously as they did Eddy Curry. I agree with you. So what? He still gets criticized. You just don't care for the more polite manner in which it happens.

I have repeatedly seen Tyson Chandler's poor play pegged as a primary, if not the primary, on-court reason for the Bulls under-achievement this season. And not just recently. For months. Indeed, I share in that opinion.

This is just silly. No offense intended here, but I have no idea what point you are trying to make anymore. Its as if you declared that boiled liver tastes bad and when everyone agrees with the obviousness of your statement you respond as though you've finally drawn out a long known, but reluctantly uttered, truth.

These are not sub rosa opinions. We've talked about it all season.

 

[Ron Cey]

No when I say someone, I'm not talking about a specific person. I'm simply saying that, in a fictional world, IF a particular person were to not be critical to at least this extent, I could not see how.

Oh. So this is all just a fictional hypothetical not based on fact. Seems kinda pointless.

In a fictional world, I think that IF a particular person were to be critical of Jannero Pargo because he's not a necropheliac, I could not see how. Discuss.

Ron I am very happy with your opinion on this issue, but at the same time I want dialogue.

If there is one thing this board did not lack this season, it was dialogue about Tyson Chandler's play.

I feel that when someone gets the benefit of the doubt, rarely does that mean that someone who underachieves is lauded with praise. People instead just kind of fail to actually harp on said individual. I want to hear those opinions on Tyson, even if it's pretty easy to imagine what people's actual opinions are. I've learned a lot from the opinions that people have shared on Tyson, and that includes everyone who has shared theirs in this thread.

As well as the hundreds, probably thousands, of posts by dozens of posters regarding Tyson Chandler's poor season dating back to mid-November.

And as for the manner in which they criticize Tyson, I just want things like what you shared with me out on the table.

This falsely presupposes that these opinions were not already on the table. They actually reside in a large, heaping mound right smack in the middle of the table.

That way when things don't go according to the grand "Right Way" prophecy of automatic championships and Ben Gordon becomes the next to have everything about himself torn apart by our media, we can have the reference point of someone who got very polite treatment for not even showing up.

No such prophecy exists. This is a false premise. Again.

I don't know who "our media" is, but I think all of the Bulls players are handled with kid gloves by the Chicago press.

The fans, on the other hand, can be harsh.

As for proving a point, that's futile. The greatest lesson I've learned in life is that people are going to think what they think regardless of anything you prove.

Well, not to get all word-specific, but I didn't say "prove", I said "make". I don't know what point you are trying to "make" - i.e., I don't know what your point is.

There is a significant difference.

There are people who've read the Dow report that believe that Pete Rose never bet on baseball. There are people who believe that Barry Bonds never did steroids because he hasn't actually been convicted of it, AND furthermore, that steroids can't make you hit a ball farther.

Certainly. There are people that watch Knicks games and pine for Jamal Crawford and Eddy Curry.

So what am I really going to PROVE here. If anything I've had more proven TO ME in this thread than anything I've proven to anyone else.

Which suggests that you haven't been reading the board re: Chandler very attentively for the last 4 months or so.

You could not even have this discussion on the other board, a.k.a. PaxFantasyland.com.

I certainly know that "you" couldn't have this discussion there.

Though I prefer posting here, I read that board. Tyson Chandler has gotten the same fair criticism from those fans as the fans who post on this board.

The discussion is what I value. So it's pretty easy to discern the average opinion on Tyson Chandler, but, if you read this thread, you will see that the ACTUAL opinions have some rather valuable and diverse subopinions.

I didn't need this thread to know that. I've been reading those opinions for months.

So I had to play devil's advocate to get people talking lol. So what.

You are not playing devil's advocate. You believe what you write here. These are your actual opinions, not disinterested observations cast into play for the sake of discussion.

But you did get people talking. The thing is, you believe, as you stated in this thread, that the content of the "talking" is new. It isn't.

I don't mind the thread. I like the thread. My point of contention is that as the thread evolved, you behaved as though negative opinions of Tyson Chandler's season were finally surfacing thanks to your probing inquiry. Thats just not the case.

 

[Ron Cey]

I'd also add something else. Tyson has been discussed negatively by a few. And up until recently a thread like that turned into an all out excuse fest.

If by negatively you mean calling his season a "stink bomb" and repeatedly pointing out that he sucks, then I agree with you. Not many do that.

But if you mean fair criticism of his largely poor season, then I absolutely disagree.

"We don't ask him to play offense"

Or: "Our team defense was the best in the league even with Curry."

"He's not being utilized properly"

Or: "How can Curry learn to play well in crunch time if Skiles is always sitting him?"

"Did you expect him to work hard this summer? What about injury"

Or: "He lost 30 lbs, that proves he worked hard last summer."

"Tyson will turn it around, and then don't jump on the bandwagon"

Or: "Eddy will turn it around, and then don't jump on the bandwagon."

"This season is a wash for him, he'll turn it around next year"

Or: "Eddy got off to a slow start due to the DNA thing."

"The guy got married, geesh."

Or: "Eddy is surrounded by the wrong kind of players in New York, you can't blame him."

In other words, Curry had his fair share of excuse makers too.

I see much more criticism/less defense of him recently. There are people who have turned only recently to being negative on Tyson.

See above regarding what you mean by "negatively".

Oh and what's hilarious is that you don't know what point I'm trying to prove. The whole dead horse discussion.

I thought you weren't trying to prove a point since "the greatest lesson you've learned in life" is the futility of the attempt.

Isn't there like a 450 page Eddy Curry bashing thread that people STILL post in floating around here somewhere??! Aren't there people that STILL bash/defend Jamal Crawford??

Absolutely.

 

[Ron Cey]

Ron if you want to participate, cool. If not, that's cool too. Keep any kind of personal things with me to PM. I'm certainly not trying to engage anyone in anything. I want to talk about Tyson Chandler. I don't want to talk about how worthy you think my motives are, or how worthy you think my cause is, or what I'm trying to say or anything pertaining to me and my posting. I've said what I've said. If you can't take that and analyze it for what it's worth, oh well.

I was analyzing what you said. I analyzed what you said very specifically and with great detail. In fact, my posts are structured as a nearly line-by-line response to what you said.

But Tyson Chandler has had a poor and frustrating season, I agree with you.