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just a hunch here but I've always been of the opinion Creighton's non rev sports would take a huge hit participating in the Big East from a travel standpoint. Creighton is a highly participatory schools, everyone is doing something from an extracurricular standpoint and it's not as if Creighton is the only school in the region. Travel time for non rev sports for Creighton athletes has to be very painful no direct flights (for the teams that fly) and time zone difference serving as the cherry on the sundae. Not sure what help Zags are because it's still a long way to Spokane from Omaha and 2 time zones.

Not sure when but Big East expansion will happen...10 teams for this size private school league will not cut it. They're all excited and rightfully so about Nova's Final Four run but compare that to the ACC...6 of Sweet 16, 5 of Elite 8 and 2 of Final 4...I think this add further proof to JP's claims. Larger conference provides better chances for bids and more bids provides more opportunity.

And I haven't even addressed Fox and $'s...Fox is in a huge stare down with Comcast over Yankees and Yes TV (Fox regional for Yankees). Comcast says screw it, not enough people watching for huge increases...if they're not watching the Yankees on a regional network then how on earth are puny private schools USA moving the needle.

Cable providers such as Comcast pay networks, including regional sports networks like YES, a fee to distribute its programming. Comcast has balked at what it calls a 33 percent rate hike by the 21st Century Fox-owned YES (Fox owns 80 percent; the Yankees control the rest), claiming there is simply not enough interest in the network among its subscribers to justify the cost.


At some point the NBE will just have to become a better conference for all sports...basketball will not continue to pay huge TV $'s.

http://thetimes-tribune.com/sports/comcast-yes-network-war-rages-as-opening-day-approaches-1.2023052
 

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Rasmussen is a scumbag tool, who traded votes like a FIFA member while on the NCAA Selection committee the last two years.

Ackerman is a short-sighted myopic idiot.

And they don't agree. Which is funny.


However, they're basically doing the opposite of what they need to do:

They don't need basketball strength, they need 2 or 3 schools, who are in "contestable" markets, who would blossom when given Big East affiliation.

What's Wichita State going to give them? A TENTH Top 75 basketball program to be forced into the NIT by playing 16+ games against other Top 75 programs.... in the country's No. 85 market which is already populated by Kansas fans?

IF Gonzaga were to join, they’d be really dumb to take Wichita State with them, sacrificing their common bond of private schools and getting so little out of it. IF Gonzaga were to join, they should invite BYU as their 12th, which brings an international fan base of Mormons. AKA TV VIEWERS.

Because the Big East needs VIEWERS more than basketball prowess. They don't need Gonzaga to add another NCAA team to their ranks. They just need to not kill the chances of teams 7-9 via league play.

ANY two (or three) additions they make is going to give them more bids because it ditches the double-round format that forces Creighton & Marquette to play 10 games each vs legit NCAA teams, plus 4 more each other & Georgetown (and 6 when St. John's isn't sucking).

Which is why they should make a three-team expansion with ONE “heavy hitter” like Gonzaga or Dayton, and two smaller schools that have a history of beating those outside the BCS routinely, exist in markets that they could take over with Big East affiliation, and will probably take it on the chin for the first five years in the league while they slowly elevate their programs using their new Big East resources.


It’s the CONTESTABLE markets that’s the key:
Saint Louis is always gonna be in a region full of Illinois/Missouri/Kansas fans.
Davidson is always gonna be in a region full of Duke/UNC/NC State/Charlotte fans.
Detroit is always gonna be in a region full of Michigan/Michigan State fans.
Richmond & VCU is always gonna be a divided market.

The candidates who’d bring the most (eventually) to the Big East would probably be:
- Bonaventure (585/716 area codes have 2.6 million people, markets 50 & 51)
- Belmont (2 million people; much more winnable with Vandy & MTSU compared to other BCS markets)
- possibly Siena (the trio of St. John’s, Siena and Bona could provide viewers through most of NY State)

Not that they should add those three. They should really add Bona & Belmont and a "name" like Dayton or Wichita State /VCU. Everyone would understand why they took the name; everyone would question the other two... but Bona is coming off a great year, so they could justify that, and few would really talk about the third when they're added at once. Then they'd be vindicated when they get 8-9 bids in a year or two.
 

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And for the record, I'm not clamoring for Bona's inclusion in the Big East because I want the Bonnies out of the A-10 after being snubbed. I simply hate idiocy.

I rant like this about Bracketology for the same reasons. And Hockey expansion/alignment/schedule for the same reasons of the league missing opportunities to operate at maximum efficiency, etc, etc.
 

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jp,

I have no idea why that doesn't make sense to them (the fans I mean). The BE is a good league. They had 2 National teams this years but then after that, they looked like the middle of the A10, there was no difference.

But for some reason to guys like PaulXU, 40% and 50% matter more than 8 or 9.

But the fact is, those numbers are not mutually exclusive. You can add 2-4 more teams and still get your 40-50% and INCREASE you NCAA units.
 

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I don't have any concrete evidence that Xavier (or Marquette) blocked Dayton or would block Dayton if expansion were to occur.

I think most of that comes from message boards only. It's clear on BE/X/Marq boards that those fan bases (most of them) don't want Dayton in. I have my theory on why but I'll leave it at that.

But to say the powers that be blocked or would block Dayton? I haven't seen anything official on that.
No one blocked Dayton from getting an invite. It certainly wasn't Xavier - they weren't even part of the Big East at the time.

I'm not sure Dayton was really ever discussed. Think of UD basketball in the Winter of 2013. Something like 1 NCAA win in 20+ years. UD wasn't even in consideration. It was really 9 teams and then Marquette's president's connection with Creighton bumped it to 10. (**Disclaimer: Now, not so much. UD would certainly be a school that would be looked at if the BE wanted to expand, especially with Archie doing the job he's done there)

I don't think any single institution has singular veto power, but Xavier does not want UD in the Big East for reasons totally separate from athletics and mens basketball. X not wanting UD in the BE is really a strategic decision on perception/branding/recruiting/admissions/academic thing and not an athletics/mens basketball thing. Men's basketball obviously runs the Big East, and Xavier is one of the Top 2-3 programs in the BE, so X definitely has some power.... but I don't think any school has veto power.

Regardless, we can talk in circles for days. Big East expansion isn't happening anytime soon. (**Disclaimer: Not saying it will NEVER happen - as I stated before, the Big East won't have the exact same configuration in 20 years. Just stating right now, the Commissioner/Presidents/ADs of the Big East have all publicly and privately stated that expansion really isn't priority or pressing issue).
 

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I understand JP's argument but more teams doesn't necessarily guarantee more bids.

The A-10 has 14 teams and has had 6 bids, 3 bids and 3 bids.

The Big East has 2/3 the number of teams - only 10 - and has had 4 bids, 6 bids and 5 bids.

It's about quality programs. Not just adding teams to add teams.
 

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IF the Big East decision makers are too be believed, one of the biggest reasons they didn't invite Dayton & Saint Louis for a 12-team league was because the Big East did not want to raid from one conference too heavily...

It's a little disingenuous to suggest the Big East wouldn't act in their self interest even if it's at the expense of another conference; But they definitely didn't want a "7 Big East + 5 A-10" situation for multiple reasons.

It made sense for them to be cautious at first, because you can expand later; And they really need to do their due diligence in "what makes the best conference."

But this is also all the more reason why they should expand with "my" candidates rather than the best.

You don't need the BEST PROGRAMS, you need the RIGHT PROGRAMS.
 

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I understand JP's argument but more teams doesn't necessarily guarantee more bids.

The A-10 has 14 teams and has had 6 bids, 3 bids and 3 bids.

The Big East has 2/3 the number of teams - only 10 - and has had 4 bids, 6 bids and 5 bids.

It's about quality programs. Not just adding teams to add teams.
That's absolutely true that "more teams doesn't equal more bids" in the general sense.

But in this specific sense with the Big East, I'm absolutely right.

Creighton played 10 Big East games against legit NCAA teams seeded 1-8;
Creighton played 4 games against St. John's & DePaul.

Vanderbilt played TWO SEC games against legit NCAA teams seeded 1-8
Vanderbilt played EIGHT games against teams 9-14 of the SEC.

If Creighton played four games Belmont, Bona and Siena (3-1) instead of Hall, Providence, Georgetown, Nova (0-4) they'd be 21-11 and in the Top 60 of the RPI; and 7 of their 11 losses would be against NCAA teams.

The 13-team Big East would have sent Xavier, Nova, Hall, Butler, Providence, Bonaventure and Creighton this past season (assuming Bona went 9-9 in conference)
 

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I think (and it's just me) that the conference is sorting through their initial makeup/TV deal on a slow pace to see how things will go. Pretty sure X didn't have a vote as an incoming conference member on who should/should not be included.

They probably got an invite from the 7 members, and accepted. Doubt they would have been allowed to disallow any other invites the 7 might put out.

I think I understand JP's math as to adding members to get more NCAA invitations, which of course would always be a good thing. I am sure that the people who run the schools/conference understand that and have reviewed that with an eye towards the future.

Most of all the fans seem to really like the round robin conference format. What's not to like? You get everybody twice a year, H/A. That's a great draw for the fans. Have no idea whatsoever what the Presidents and AD's think about it.

JP, one factor (and maybe a small one) is arena size. Butler at 9100 and X at 10,250 are the smallest; and X averaged more than their capacity this year. Would that be a consideration if they looked at the NCAA math with a school like Bona?
 

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I don't know why this keeps coming up. Bona isn't getting an invite from the Big East, and that's fine. Things are fine in the A10.
 

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No one blocked Dayton from getting an invite. It certainly wasn't Xavier - they weren't even part of the Big East at the time.

I'm not sure Dayton was really ever discussed. Think of UD basketball in the Winter of 2013. Something like 1 NCAA win in 20+ years. UD wasn't even in consideration. It was really 9 teams and then Marquette's president's connection with Creighton bumped it to 10. (**Disclaimer: Now, not so much. UD would certainly be a school that would be looked at if the BE wanted to expand, especially with Archie doing the job he's done there)

I don't think any single institution has singular veto power, but Xavier does not want UD in the Big East for reasons totally separate from athletics and mens basketball. X not wanting UD in the BE is really a strategic decision on perception/branding/recruiting/admissions/academic thing and not an athletics/mens basketball thing. Men's basketball obviously runs the Big East, and Xavier is one of the Top 2-3 programs in the BE, so X definitely has some power.... but I don't think any school has veto power.

Regardless, we can talk in circles for days. Big East expansion isn't happening anytime soon. (**Disclaimer: Not saying it will NEVER happen - as I stated before, the Big East won't have the exact same configuration in 20 years. Just stating right now, the Commissioner/Presidents/ADs of the Big East have all publicly and privately stated that expansion really isn't priority or pressing issue).
Xavier not wanting UD in the New Big East is a strategic decision relative to men's basketball only. You are delusional if you believe any different. As an academic institution UD dwarfs Xavier.
 

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I think I understand JP's math as to adding members to get more NCAA invitations, which of course would always be a good thing. I am sure that the people who run the schools/conference understand that and have reviewed that with an eye towards the future.

Most of all the fans seem to really like the round robin conference format. What's not to like? You get everybody twice a year, H/A. That's a great draw for the fans. Have no idea whatsoever what the Presidents and AD's think about it.

JP, one factor (and maybe a small one) is arena size. Butler at 9100 and X at 10,250 are the smallest; and X averaged more than their capacity this year. Would that be a consideration if they looked at the NCAA math with a school like Bona?
Yeah, it is likely that Xavier's opinion was asked, but didn't carry much weight. It was the Catholic Seven inviting members.


The double-RR is outstanding for fans... if you're in the top half of the league. It sucks for the 7th place team that has an NCAA capable program finishing .500.


As for arena capacity... since 1997, Villanova has played 74 home games at the Wells Fargo Center (under all it’s names), and 229 home at the Pavillion (6,500).

An arena can easily be built.
(Bonaventure has ample space and would definitely NEED to build if the Big East was seriously talking to them. They could build a new basketball-only facility with 8000 to 9000 seats; and then turn the upper level of the RC into more - much needed - office space)

The Big East brand would help sell tickets. And of course, Bona/BE would want a BE opponent during winter & spring break in Buffalo & Rochester to sink their roots into the entire region.


But what the Big East cannot do is make Saint Louis or Wichita State more popular than Kansas/Illinois and Missouri.
 

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I don't know why this keeps coming up. Bona isn't getting an invite from the Big East, and that's fine. Things are fine in the A10.
Agreed. It's just....

And for the record, I'm not clamoring for Bona's inclusion in the Big East because I want the Bonnies out of the A-10 after being snubbed. I simply hate idiocy.
It would be an unrealistic, yet genius move by them.
 

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jp,

I have no idea why that doesn't make sense to them (the fans I mean). The BE is a good league. They had 2 National teams this years but then after that, they looked like the middle of the A10, there was no difference.

But for some reason to guys like PaulXU, 40% and 50% matter more than 8 or 9.

But the fact is, those numbers are not mutually exclusive. You can add 2-4 more teams and still get your 40-50% and INCREASE you NCAA units.
BE got close to 20m in units this yr., not bad for a 10 team League.
 

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BE got close to 20m in units this yr., not bad for a 10 team League.
So why not go for 25-30 million??

And how many did you get in your first year? In your second? Do you plan on getting 20 million a year from here on out?


What did the ACC get this year?

I hope you don't run your own business.

And it's good to see you are still alive....we worried after last week about you.
 

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I like JP's analysis, but one observation...

Mizzou has fans that aren't currently incarcerated? Oh wait, that's just the players.
I'm a realist: I understand that conferences aren't going to expand for unsexy reasons like "we're really too good. We need someone to beat in this league."

But it's the lack of awareness about reality that drives me nuts. We've grown so used to seeing just-raided conferences taking the "best programs possible" that people think EVERYONE needs the best program available. Media folk love to talk about "top to bottom" as if the bottom matters once you hit conference play.

It's about the RIGHT BALANCE.

The Big East had two really strong powers, and then six teams that were really similar in talent (12-6 to 7-11). The top half of them also danced because there were only two teams at the bottom soaking up losses.
 

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An arena can easily be built.
(Bonaventure has ample space and would definitely NEED to build if the Big East was seriously talking to them. They could build a new basketball-only facility with 8000 to 9000 seats; and then turn the upper level of the RC into more - much needed - office space).
And it would be half empty. Bona cannot afford to expand the RC and they don't need to. A move to the NBE would result in half our games at FNC or BCA. And we'd become DePaul 2.0. No thanks.
 
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