Professional and College Basketball Forums banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,861 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Re-ordering the 2005 draft based on immediate impact

Actual 2005 Draft:

1) Andrew Bogut
2) Marvin Williams
3) Deron Williams
4) Chris Paul
5) Raymond Felton
6) Martell Webster
7) Charlie Villanueva
8) Channing Frye
9) Ike Diogu
10) Andrew Bynum
11) Fran Vasquez
12) Yaroslav Korolev
13) Sean May
14) Rashad McCants
15) Antoine Wright
16) Joey Graham
17) Danny Granger
18) Gerald Green
19) Hakim Warrick
20) Julius Hodge
21) Nate Robinson
22) Jarret Jack
23) Francisco Garcia
24) Luther Head
25) Johan Petro
26) Jason Maxiell
27) Linas Kleiza
28) Ian Mahinmi
29) Wayne Simien
30) David Lee

Lottery revisited:

1) Chris Paul
2) Andrew Bogut
3) Charlie Villanueva
4) Deron Williams
5) Channing Frye
6) Raymond Felton
7) Danny Granger
8) Marvin Willams
9) Ryan Gomes
10) Salim Stoudamire
11) Joey Graham
12) Ike Diogu
13) Rashad McCants
14) Luther Head
 

·
That'll do Pigley...
Joined
·
51,186 Posts
I don't agree. Most of these picks were made with team needs in mind. Chris Paul would be selected by Utah possibly, but would he have the same freedom received to him in Oklahoma City? I doubt it.

Revisiting the lottery doesn't make sense yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,861 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
HKF said:
I don't agree. Most of these picks were made with team needs in mind. Chris Paul would be selected by Utah possibly, but would he have the same freedom received to him in Oklahoma City? I doubt it.

Revisiting the lottery doesn't make sense yet.
Based on performance to date irrespective of team needs. You could argue that Gerald Green could one day be in this group, as well as others. I would have hoped it would be obvious.

Clearly "team needs" don't matter that much since ATL passed on both Deron and Chris and having a great need for a PG. So I'll stick with the best player ranking irrespective (not irregardless) of team needs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
459 Posts
blowuptheraptors said:
Based on performance to date irrespective of team needs. You could argue that Gerald Green could one day be in this group, as well as others. I would have hoped it would be obvious.

Clearly "team needs" don't matter that much since ATL passed on both Deron and Chris and having a great need for a PG. So I'll stick with the best player ranking irrespective (not irregardless) of team needs.
Actually, this is more of a "who has made the most immediate impact" ranking than it is a best player ranking. In 3-4 years time, this ranking will be very different. For instance, everyone that currently criticizes the Hawks and Billy Knight for taking Marvin Williams will be praising that pick by then.
 

·
Banned member
Joined
·
28,451 Posts
HKF said:
I don't agree. Most of these picks were made with team needs in mind. Chris Paul would be selected by Utah possibly, but would he have the same freedom received to him in Oklahoma City? I doubt it.

Revisiting the lottery doesn't make sense yet.
interesting point about the freedom bit. It's one thing that some fans don't put into the equation when it comes to judging a pick or a player. Such as, would Paul have had the same freedoms in Portland as he does in NO-OK?

Per-48, Telfair and Pauls #'s aren't significantly different, (21 vs 17, 10 vs 7..one shoots better from the floor, one shoots a lot better from 3). But thats with Telfair being the backup for most of the year, and not the 1st or 2nd option.

All in all, most of us fans don't have the patience to understand drafts till years later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,281 Posts
Hap said:
interesting point about the freedom bit. It's one thing that some fans don't put into the equation when it comes to judging a pick or a player. Such as, would Paul have had the same freedoms in Portland as he does in NO-OK?

Per-48, Telfair and Pauls #'s aren't significantly different, (21 vs 17, 10 vs 7..one shoots better from the floor, one shoots a lot better from 3). But thats with Telfair being the backup for most of the year, and not the 1st or 2nd option.

All in all, most of us fans don't have the patience to understand drafts till years later.
Love the homerism and the loyalty, but Telfair is backing up Steve Blake. He's been a complete flop thus far.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,440 Posts
If you wanna talk about all time flops, we'll say Darko being picked over Carmelo and Wade from your pistons....Telfair was a 13th pick, hes performing better than Shaun Livingston, the only other High school to pros PG who was picked ahead of him
 

·
Banned member
Joined
·
28,451 Posts
Nimreitz said:
Love the homerism and the loyalty, but Telfair is backing up Steve Blake. He's been a complete flop thus far.
the only people who think he's been a flop are either people who actually aren't paying attention to how he's playing or people who put him on such an unrealistic level of expectation that they were setting up for failure, or people who think they know a lot more about players because thats their "shtick" on here.

which one is you?

I'm not sure if a guy who many "experts" predicted wouldn't make any sort of impact, and is actually playing decent minutes and has improved his shooting a ton just in 1 year, is a "flop".

if he's a flop, whats that say about Livingston, taken 9 places ahead of him supposed to be a lot better and not showing much?

Neither one is a flop actually, as (anyone with an ounce of sense knows) it's too early to make any sort of declarations about any player from last years draft or the draft before.

But whatever, you're entitled to your opinion, as ignorant of the facts as it is.
 

·
Top Of The Pops
Joined
·
27,460 Posts
Nimreitz said:
Love the homerism and the loyalty, but Telfair is backing up Steve Blake. He's been a complete flop thus far.
He hasn't been as good as Paul to date, but he's been far from a flop. The fact that he's backing up Blake is more a matter of the dysfunction of the Blazers' brass than failure by Telfair. If the Bobcats' brass were stupid enough not to start Paul and let him develop, it wouldn't make Paul a worse talent.

Telfair went out of the lineup early in the season due to a medical issue; Blake started in his absence, and the team began winning. Blake was given credit, though it was really a matter of Juan Dixon and Darius Miles getting hot with their jumpers. When Telfair returned, Blake continued to start. Dixon being Dixon and Miles being Miles, their hot shooting obviously didn't last and so the winning didn't last. But Blake, established as the starter due to his mythic connection to winning, remained starter.

Telfair has shown tremendous ability from time to time, and has been quite productive in the minutes he gets. His best has been quite similar to Paul's best. Telfair just hasn't had the consistency; Paul gets closer to his best more often.

That's obviously a big thing...consistent production defines your ability, so there's no question Paul is better right now. However, Telfair will become more consistent, in my opinion, when he gets consistent playing time...the thing Portland denies him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,031 Posts
The class has to AT LEAST have its rookie contracts expire before we decide all this. If teams like Atlanta had longer plans for Marvin than this year (of course), we'll have to see how that goes. Sure there was an opportunity cost of not getting Paul '05 and a scorer or big '06, but they have the chance to have Marvin and Joe as well. They can't get a ROY award with Joe, but still have a strong guard who passes well. Probably a PG or substitute, 11th in APG and total assists.

We're just seeing Darko put up some numbers like Jermaine O'Neal or T-Mac did, so that changes things.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
blowuptheraptors said:
Actual 2005 Draft:

1) Andrew Bogut
2) Marvin Williams
3) Deron Williams
4) Chris Paul
5) Raymond Felton
6) Martell Webster
7) Charlie Villanueva
8) Channing Frye
9) Ike Diogu
10) Andrew Bynum
11) Fran Vasquez
12) Yaroslav Korolev
13) Sean May
14) Rashad McCants
15) Antoine Wright
16) Joey Graham
17) Danny Granger
18) Gerald Green
19) Hakim Warrick
20) Julius Hodge
21) Nate Robinson
22) Jarret Jack
23) Francisco Garcia
24) Luther Head
25) Johan Petro
26) Jason Maxiell
27) Linas Kleiza
28) Ian Mahinmi
29) Wayne Simien
30) David Lee

Lottery revisited:

1) Chris Paul
2) Andrew Bogut
3) Charlie Villanueva
4) Deron Williams
5) Channing Frye
6) Raymond Felton
7) Danny Granger
8) Marvin Willams
9) Ryan Gomes
10) Salim Stoudamire
11) Joey Graham
12) Ike Diogu
13) Rashad McCants
14) Luther Head
What the hell is Deron Williams doing ahead of Ray Felton?? Ray is already better than him and he has a higher ceiling.

Also, Ryan Gomes, Salim, and Joey Graham don't deserve the lottery. I love Ryan, but he's not going to be more than a role player, he should've gone mid-firstround. There needs to be more potential players in the lottery. you can't base this on how they're doing now. you have to take the future into account.

i agree with Danny Granger. I love this kid's game.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,302 Posts
KB21 said:
Actually, this is more of a "who has made the most immediate impact" ranking than it is a best player ranking. In 3-4 years time, this ranking will be very different. For instance, everyone that currently criticizes the Hawks and Billy Knight for taking Marvin Williams will be praising that pick by then.
by then he'll be putting up all nba numbers and people will be praising billy knight
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,861 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Well if you are all going to be this way about it, technically we shouldn't make a thread like this until they are all RETIRED, forget 1st year or 3-4 years in.

****. Talk about it as "immediate impact" then. And go ahead, I put it out there for discussion. If Felton is better than Deron IYO, have at it. I did not mean to a have a philosophical discussion about when we "should" have this kind of analysis.

As for Deron v. Felton, they are pretty darn close, one has to be ahead of the other. It's not like the difference between Paul v. Felton.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
21,860 Posts
Nimreitz said:
Love the homerism and the loyalty, but Telfair is backing up Steve Blake. He's been a complete flop thus far.
Thats a joke
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dan

·
Registered
Joined
·
536 Posts
Hey, great... a FORUM where basketball can be discussed, and there's even a specific draft section. I will muse around here because I like to talk and discuss this kind of thing. Will I ever be spotted by a team, because they want me to be a pro scout? - NO. Will it improve my grades in my philosophy class? - NO. Doesn't matter, I like to hear what people think about the draft so far, as there to me seems to be some big mistakes! That might all change... but for one:

Team needs and all in mind, Chris Paul should have been draftet by the Hawks... no matter how good M.Williams will become! What does it help that Williams some day will be a great player, when CP right now, could elevate a already very talented roster to the next level! Think about it; CP running the show with a full starting lineup of tall athletic players! Nasty!

So, Ill give my 5 cent on it:


So this is my 2005 Draft revisited:

1) Andrew Bogut - Bucks (talented 7-footer... go for it)
2) Chris Paul - Hawks (see above)
3) Deron Williams - Jazz (perfect fit for Jerry Sloans half court set)
4) Charlie Villanueva - Hornets(size and talent... they need just that)
5) Raymond Felton - Bobcats (perfect fit as understudy to B.Knight and general for the future)
6) Marvin Williams - Trailblazers (upside and Blazers aint going nowhere anyway)
7) Channing Frye - Raptors (best talent left...)
8) Danny Granger - Knicks (Larry Brown kind of player...)
9) Ike Diogu - Warrior (why not, drafts getting thin and I still don't know why they don't play him)
10) David Lee - Lakers (ok, this might be a stretch... but he fits perfect with Kobe; low maintenance)
11) Martell Webster - Magic (outlets from D.Howard... nice fit in a rebuilding club)
12) Andrew Bynum - Clippers (put his talent in the bank...)
13) Gerald Green - Bobcats (more upside... this club is building anyway)
14) Johan Petro - T'Wolves (hes got some game this kidd... and size)
15) Sean May - Nets (a little extra weight to the middle of the bench would be appreciated here)
16) Joey Graham - Raptors (he'll be around for a while)
17) Rashad McCants - Pacers (a scoringpunch of the bench?)
18) Luther Head - Celtics (move Delonte to SG... here's a real PG)
19) Hakim Warrick/ Gomes - Grizzlies (they have both shown sparks)
20) Jarret Jack/ Salim Stoudamire - Nuggets (they need depth at the point)
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top