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I was reading a couple of KG threads on the General Forum, and someone talked about KG being All-Time top-15.

My questions are:

1- Till this day, who do you think is the better player?

2- Where do you rank both players All-Time?

3- How do you rank AI, KG and Kobe?

(the reason why i inserted Kobe in the conversation is because, unlike the other 2, for most of his career, he played the second-fiddle role, and when he became the franchise player, things haven't... work out).
 

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PauloCatarino said:
My questions are:

1- Till this day, who do you think is the better player?
Kevin Garnett.

2- Where do you rank both players All-Time?
Garnett, arguably top-15.
Iverson, arguably top-35.

3- How do you rank AI, KG and Kobe?
Kevin Garnett
Kobe Bryant
Allen Iverson
 
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Garnett is the better player, and should be ranked higher all-time.
Iverson does however have the mvp, multiple all star and scoring titles. the guy is one of the greatest and most talented people to have ever played the game.
KG top 20
Iverson top 30
 
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I'd actually take Iverson over Garnett for the all-time list as of now. What exactly seperates Garnett from Malone or Barkley? Malone and Barkley both led their teams to finals. I couldn't put Garnett above Iverson for a few reasons though. Firstly, Iverson has the 3rd highest ppg average in history, which along with his MVPs (all-star game, regular season) and leading an average Sixers team offensively to the finals impresses me. Now, Garnett in his most impressive stat (rebounds) is a low 27th of all time, behind the likes of Johnny Kerr, Bill Bridges, Neil Johnston and Walter Dukes. It just doesn't seem to stack up to Iverson's scoring prowess.

Sure Garnett's a great package though, and you can't go wrong with either. Using basketballreference's HOF monitor, it actually has Garnett at 254 points and Iverson at 229. 20th and 21st overall, respectively. I'm not a big fan of the HOF monitor though, as players like Stockton and Pippen are actually ranked lower. If you ask me, both had better careers than Iverson and Garnett right now, and probably will have when it's all said and done.
 

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Lachlanwood32 said:
I'd actually take Iverson over Garnett for the all-time list as of now. What exactly seperates Garnett from Malone or Barkley?
I don't understand the question. Both of those guys are top-15 caliber players. You act like they're mediocre or merely good players that Garnett needs to be far better than to be highly ranked in history.

Now, Garnett in his most impressive stat (rebounds) is a low 27th of all time, behind the likes of Johnny Kerr, Bill Bridges, Neil Johnston and Walter Dukes. It just doesn't seem to stack up to Iverson's scoring prowess.
Garnett's greatness is not dominance of a single statistical category, but his incredible all-around game combined with great defense and great size. Would you put Tim Duncan ahead of Iverson? Duncan doesn't dominate any statistical category like Iverson does scoring. But I think it's pretty consensus that Duncan is the greater player.
 

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Minstrel said:
I don't understand the question. Both of those guys are top-15 caliber players. You act like they're mediocre or merely good players that Garnett needs to be far better than to be highly ranked in history.
Actually, it was more me asking the question, then answering it to prove a point. Both led their teams to the finals, whereas Garnett hasn't. They're definitely not mediocre players, and I didn't mean for it to be perceived that way, it was merely to prove the difference between them and why Garnett is ranked lower than them in my books. I've seen people rank Garnett in the top 15 of all time, which is usually down to people only following basketball for 5-10 years.


Minstrel said:
Garnett's greatness is not dominance of a single statistical category, but his incredible all-around game combined with great defense and great size. Would you put Tim Duncan ahead of Iverson? Duncan doesn't dominate any statistical category like Iverson does scoring. But I think it's pretty consensus that Duncan is the greater player.
Tim Duncan and Shaq are light years ahead of Garnett and Iverson if you ask me. More because of their dominance when it comes to the W and leading their team, which is a big deal when ranking for me. A player can put up fantastic stats, but they're useless without some success. Why do you think nearly every player (depending on personal opinion) in the top 20 has led their team or been apart of an NBA final? Because we only remember those who have achieved something.

Garnett is an all-round player, but so was Chris Webber who has nearly identical stats. What seperates them besides Garnett's 1 MVP? I believe that Garnett's slightly overrated as of now, but he definitely has the potential to surpass Iverson and a few others seeing as he's only hitting 30 this year. This could have a potential downside to his stats as well.

Iverson actually is ranked above Garnett on the all-time list in 3 of the 5 categories which I believe count towards being well-rounded (points, rebounding, assists, steals and blocks).

I don't think his size should be apart of his ranking. What Garnett does at 6'11 is just as impressive as what Iverson does at 6'.
 

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AI is around the same place Gervin is in an all-time list.

KG is around the same place Ewing is in an all-time list.
 

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Lachlanwood32 said:
I've seen people rank Garnett in the top 15 of all time, which is usually down to people only following basketball for 5-10 years.
I've followed basketball since around 1985, and I place Garnett around the top-15 all-time.

More because of their dominance when it comes to the W and leading their team, which is a big deal when ranking for me. A player can put up fantastic stats, but they're useless without some success.
Personally, I don't feel it's logical to penalize players for who their teammates were. Garnett has been an amazing player...it's a shame he never had the horses around him to help him reach the ultimate team goal, but that's not his fault, as far as I can see. Any more than it would be Jordan's fault not to win any titles if he had been surrounded by the Christian Laettners and Sam Mitchells of the league.

Duncan has been fortunate to have support for his greatness in players like (declining but still very good) David Robinson, Sean Elliott, Tony Parker, Bruce Bowen, Emmanuel Ginobili...basically, very solid and overall talented supporting casts. Garnett hasn't been so fortunate. I think that is a credit and demerit to the GMs in question, not to the players.

Why do you think nearly every player (depending on personal opinion) in the top 20 has led their team or been apart of an NBA final?
Because the greatest players have a higher chance of being on a successful team by virtue of having themselves on their team. But that's only a higher chance, not an ironclad guarantee, no matter how good the player. Bad management can successfully create supporting casts bad enough or mediocre enough that even the greatest players can't lift them to the highest team level.

Garnett is an all-round player, but so was Chris Webber who has nearly identical stats. What seperates them besides Garnett's 1 MVP?
Fabulous defense. Individual defense may be slightly less important than individual offense, but defense is still a huge component of the game. It's the difference between being Kobe Bryant and Dominique Wilkins. It's not exactly the same, since Bryant also has an edge in passing, but it's a lot of the difference.
 
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PauloCatarino said:
I was reading a couple of KG threads on the General Forum, and someone talked about KG being All-Time top-15.

My questions are:

1- Till this day, who do you think is the better player?

2- Where do you rank both players All-Time?

3- How do you rank AI, KG and Kobe?

(the reason why i inserted Kobe in the conversation is because, unlike the other 2, for most of his career, he played the second-fiddle role, and when he became the franchise player, things haven't... work out).
1) The Player I would rather have on a team if I was GM - KG... But on career value you have to pick AI. The guy simply has more accomplishments (team & otherwise).
2) Neither player, nor Kobe, however, is top 15 all-time. Just start listing off better players - MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Russell, Oscar, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Duncan, Pippen, Robinson (debatable), Stockton, Julius Erving, Isiah Thomas, Jerry West, George Mikan (debatable), John Havlicek, Bob Cousy, James Worthy (maybe). Thats 20 players who are better than all 3 of them - even if some of the players listed are debatable, there are another 10 or so that probably should be on that list of better players (Moses Malone, Elvin Hayes, Hal Greer, Robert Parrish, ...). All 3 of them are outside the top 20 in my opinion.
3) If I have to rank them - Accomplishments - Kobe (championships COUNT even as 2nd fiddle), AI, KG
As a GM - KG, AI (has demonstrated in the last 2 seasons he can play as a point), Kobe
 

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1- Till this day, who do you think is the better player?
Kevin Garnett is the better player but Iverson is more dominant, has a stronger presence. Garnett to me is a guy that should've been blocking at least 3 shots a game with his length and timing.

2- Where do you rank both players All-Time?
Both are top50, but Kevin is barely there.

3- How do you rank AI, KG and Kobe?
Kobe Bryant (three rings)
Allen Iverson (statistics + mvp)
Kevin Garnett (durability + mvp)
 

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When Kobe ended up his career , he will the top 15 bacause of the those rings. Since Garnett and Iverson arent a champion yet I would consider them to behind Kobe and my list :

Kobe ( around 15 )
Garnett ( around 25 )
Iverson ( around 25 )
 
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