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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys i am new here and really looking forward to the season starting, i was just wondering if this is pretty much the team that we put on the floor-

Williams,Crawford,Vet PG(Jones?),Mason-IR
Rose,Hassell,Hoiberg-IR
Marshall,Robinson
Chandler,Fizer
Curry,Blount,Bagaric

I suppose either hoiberg or whomever vet pg we sign could be on IR along with mason- i am also assuming baxter will be overseas to start the year and only brought over if we trade fizer at the deadline
 

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I'd say thats pretty close to right. Crawford will be the starting pg come opening day. Marshall & E-Rob will be battling it out to see who earns the starting honors. Also, I am hearing that Baxter is balking on going overseas to play and the Bulls are likely to just sign him.
 

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I dont' think we will make anymore trades. Signing a player or two is a possibility. It's kind of dangerous to trade away guys that could easily have breakout year this coming season.

Krauz probably wants to wait and see how Crawford and Fizer and even ERob are like on the court before trading any of them. Probably we will have a monster trade like the Rose one last season.

As far as the season starting 5: here are a few that we can look forward to.

1) Crawford, Rose, Erobb, Marshal, Curry (My favorite)
2) Crawford, Rose, Erob, Chandler, Curry
3) JWill, Crawford, Rose, Marshall, Curry
4) Crawford, Rose, Marshall, Chandler, Curry

Curry is going to get the starting center position and play as much as he deserves. Rose is going to get one starting either at SG or SF. The other three positions are pretty much there for anyone to grab.

Man. Believe it or not. We are too deep "potential wise".
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
You mentioned a monster trade at the deadline similar to the rose one from last year- any ideas on players who MIGHT be on the block- will krause attempt to bring kukoc here like here tried earlier this summer maybe toni along with ervin johnson for some combo of crawford,fizer,erob or is it possible to bring in a starting caliber SF to go along with rose and move marshall to a sixth man role off bench?and if so who might be out there?
 

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Here's my starting five:

:rbanana: :rbanana: :rbanana: :rbanana: :rbanana:




Go Bulls.

VD
 

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Originally posted by <b>Vin Diesel</b>!
Here's my starting five:

:rbanana: :rbanana: :rbanana: :rbanana: :rbanana:




Go Bulls.

VD
Man, we are going to have an intervention here. You stayed off bananas for as long as you could. Then you thought you could run with the banana crowd, just do a banana here, a banana there, and keep it under control.

But dude: you've got a banana problem and you've got to get help.

Only your true friends will tell you.
 

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Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!


Man, we are going to have an intervention here. You stayed off bananas for as long as you could. Then you thought you could run with the banana crowd, just do a banana here, a banana there, and keep it under control.

But dude: you've got a banana problem and you've got to get help.

Only your true friends will tell you.
LMAO.

Its true. I have a problem. I need help. At first, I feared the bananas. Then it turned to hate. Eventually I started to actually like them. Now, I can't live without them. Its a thin line between love and hate. Haha.

TB#1, you are indeed a true friend. I feel the pangs of banana-withdrawal coming on already... but I must endure them. Thanks for your help man. In time, I hope to get this under control... or go bananas trying. :rbanana:

I apologize for speadin' all this cheesy humor lately. But hey, I have a problem. I'm trying to deal with it. Ahhh.

Go Bulls!!!!!!




VD
 

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Originally posted by <b>basghetti80</b>!
You mentioned a monster trade at the deadline similar to the rose one from last year- any ideas on players who MIGHT be on the block- will krause attempt to bring kukoc here like here tried earlier this summer maybe toni along with ervin johnson for some combo of crawford,fizer,erob or is it possible to bring in a starting caliber SF to go along with rose and move marshall to a sixth man role off bench?and if so who might be out there?
I dont' know about Kukoc. Simply cuz of his salary. He is making like what, 8 or 9M?? We would have to give up a lot of salary for him. Fizer, Crawford, and ERob for Toni and Johnson is a bit too much. I would rather have those 3 players instead.

Personally, i expect Krauz to pull a trade that would bring in players like Eddie Jones, Finley, Tim Thomas, u know those that are locked for a few years and have the ability to make the all-star game. Toni Kukoc is good but if the Bucks agree to take back just ERob, Hoisberg, and probably Bagaric. Not all 3 of our young guns.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
i think bonzi wells could be this kind of player for us but i wonder what kind of contract he is getting from Portland- it appears he is going there but that team has one serious log jam at the wings- they have had interest in crawford and fizer in the past something might could be worked out there- bonzi along with jalen,jay,tyson,eddy, with marshall,vet pg, blount,hassell off the bench how nice would that be!
 

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I don't know why a lot of teams have not inquired about Wells. What about us sending JCrawford and possibly another player for Wells???

Then our starting 5 would be set for good. JWil,Wells,Rose. Man that's a good 3!!!
 

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Originally posted by <b>LoaKhoet</b>!
I dont' think we will make anymore trades. Signing a player or two is a possibility. It's kind of dangerous to trade away guys that could easily have breakout year this coming season.

Krauz probably wants to wait and see how Crawford and Fizer and even ERob are like on the court before trading any of them. Probably we will have a monster trade like the Rose one last season.

As far as the season starting 5: here are a few that we can look forward to.

1) Crawford, Rose, Erobb, Marshal, Curry (My favorite)
2) Crawford, Rose, Erob, Chandler, Curry
3) JWill, Crawford, Rose, Marshall, Curry
4) Crawford, Rose, Marshall, Chandler, Curry

Curry is going to get the starting center position and play as much as he deserves. Rose is going to get one starting either at SG or SF. The other three positions are pretty much there for anyone to grab.

Man. Believe it or not. We are too deep "potential wise".
Funny, I didn't think that Crawford was a guaranteed starter.

I think the drafting of Jay Williams and his play on the USA team really changes things around... if Krause/BC want to keep Craw in the future plans of the team, they will continue his development as starter this year. It doesn't make sense, though, if they are going to show any real committment to Jay...

I think my favorite lineup is:

Jay/Rose/Marshall/Chandler/Curry. It's a perfect mix of the Rose/Marshall level of proven experience with the improving Chandler/Curry and explosive fresh Jay.

the Jay/Crawford/anyone lineup is interesting... I just have a weird feeling that Craw would explode at the SG position, but that the Bulls organization isn't entertaining the thought of converting him to the SG of the future... if he does go crazy on the floor at SG, then it works out kind of nice except for the lack of PG depth (i.e., NONE).

Marshall at PF is a lineup I never really like, unless Chandler is at C and we're just trying to put up points like madness while giving Curry and Robinson a rest. The lineup:

Williams/Crawford/Rose/Marshall/Chandler

Another fun lineup:

Williams/Hassell/Robinson/Fizer/Blount

If Craw starts over Williams and Marshall over Robinson, then this is the second unit, but a second unit that I'm going to really enjoy watching. All besides Blount are going to be really interesting to watch on the floor, especially with each other.
 

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The Bulls' lineup and variations are very interesting. Loads of talent and versatility. Is there anyone but Bagaric that doesn't play at least 2 positions? If BC is a matchup coach, he should have some fun.

The problem is going to be minutes. It's tough to coach in the NBA with a rotation of players as large as the Bulls figure to have.

Rose and Marshall are established players. Hassell showed he can play in the league. Chandler, Curry and Williams are the future of the franchise and need to see the court. We need to nail down what we have in Crawford, ERob, Fizer, and to a lesser extent, Bagaric. Blount probably wouldn't complain much about playing small minutes, but he's the only defensively-oriented big man we have. Barring injuries, it'll be tough to get this down to a 7 or 8 man rotation.

It'll take some creativity.
 

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I know EVERYONE has done a minutes breakdown, but I'm going to give it a shot, too...

Starters: Crawford, Rose, Marshall, Chandler, Curry
Primary Backups: Williams, Robinson, Fizer, Hassell.
Leftovers: Blount, Bags, Hoiberg.

Rose and Curry will get the most minutes, since Rose is the current core player of the team, and Curry's backups just aren't good enough for him to be off the floor too often. Marshall and Chandler will get the next most minutes, as Marshall was hired for a reason and Chandler will warrant the minutes.

Crawford and Williams will probably split PG minutes exactly equally, other than maybe 3 minutes when they might both sit and Rose and Hassell will have the backcourt. But the Craw/Williams limbo is flexible as to who is having a better night, who looked better in practice, who is healthier, and who has more fouls, etc. These are initially going to be decided on a night-by-night basis.

Robinson will get significant minutes at SF, probably near 22 a game. He's really the big gyp of the team, though, as Krause recruited him to be one of the major cornerstones of the future. He isn't, unfortunately. Most of us on the board believe he's easiler tradeable.

Hassell will get leftover minutes from Rose, which will be less than one might want. Rose will be on the floor at SG for probably about 32 minutes (shifting over to SF and PG for a few mins a game will put Rose around 37 mpg), leaving Hassell only 16 mpg. However, I think his season average will be higher than that, because Rose will get some rest on nights when the Bulls are being blown out (or are blowing out others!), or on nights when Rose isn't feeling up to par (which is rare... he's very durable).

Fizer gets Chandler's leftover minutes. He's also something of a gyp, but Chandler will probably see a lot of time on the bench, simply because of his defensive intensity that will bring him many fouls. We saw a taste of that in the summer leagues. Fizer will also have a few mins each game when Chandler shifts to C for a spell.

Transplant, the minutes are not as big a problem as you say... it's just that some players are going to get gypped, that is, not getting the minutes that their playing ability should warrant. Nevertheless, I think there will be enough love to spread around the floor.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!
Crawford and Williams will probably split PG minutes exactly equally, other than maybe 3 minutes when they might both sit and Rose and Hassell will have the backcourt. But the Craw/Williams limbo is flexible as to who is having a better night, who looked better in practice, who is healthier, and who has more fouls, etc. These are initially going to be decided on a night-by-night basis.
Showtyme, I agree with most of your analysis except for a slightly differently fine-tuned vision of the upcoming Jamal and Jay show. I see Crawford at the start of the season starting at point for significant minutes, with Williams sitting at the beginning of the game, and coming in as the first, or maybe even the second substitution, maybe when Marshall or Chandler sits. When its time for Jay to come in, everyone slides over a position. For example, Jamal slides over to the 2 spot and Jalen goes from two to three. Of course there will also be times when Jay comes in for Jamal, but I think this is the season to maximize JCraw's court time. As the season progresses, and Williams settles in and earns bigger minutes, Crawford plays more and more 2 guard. By the time Williams is ready to start full time, hopefully by the all-star break, we'll know whether Crawford is ready, willing and able to be the featured off guard in JWill's backcourt. If so, we are closer to finally having a set roster. If not, JCraw will have had enough camera time to fully showcase him as featured trade bait.

Anyhow, that's the way I see the season progressing in the backcourt.
 

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Minutes and a potential trade

OK, as things stand now, ideally I see the minutes going down something like this:

C - Curry 28, Chandler 20
PF- Chandler 8, Fizer 24, Marshall 16
SF- Marshall 16, Rose 16, ERob 16
SG- Rose 20, Crawford 12, Hassell 16
PG- Crawford 18, JWill 30

* Blount will pick up his minutes by filling in on the (frequent) nights when Curry, Chandler, and/or Fizer are in foul trouble or not playing defense. Also, if ERob isn't healthy, Marshall plays more at the 3 and less at the 4, with Blount filling in there.

* I'm not a big Fizer fan, but I expect him to still be a strong member of the rotation and get at least 20 minutes, given his ability to put up points and the fact that undoubtably we're looking for suitors for him.

* If ERob's not healthy, another possibility is to play Rose more at the 3 and give Hassell some more time. Also Hassell gets minutes from Crawford if the latter can't defend 2s.

* I don't have a real opinion on whether Crawford or JWill starts in the short term. I figure given Crawford's sensitivity, he'll start at first. In the long-run, JWill will be starting, so Crawford better play his way into the starting SG role (and push Rose back to the 3) if he wants to be a starter.

* The other guys: Bagaric, Baxter, Mason, Hoiberg, Brunson... they are spot duty guys or on the IL
----------------------------------------

Also, in looking over the roster, it seems to me that the biggest weaknesses we have at the moment (aside from vast inexperience) are 1: A defensive stopper, and 2: An inside presence. While I was in favor of the Marshall pickup, he really didn't address either of these issues.

Unfortunately, I don't see any way for us to really address issue 1. Marshall is a slight improvement, and Trent will be better than last year. Those factors, combined with increased experience from Crawford, Curry, Fizer, and Chandler should improve team D some. Maybe ERob, if healthy, we show he can be a good defender.

2. I would have liked someone a little better than Corie Blount up front. And there's really not much left in FA. One guy that's reportedly available for next to nothing would be Danny Fortson. He's somewhat limited, but he's a rebounding monster. Also, his salary matches up almost exactly to ERob's. How about an ERob for Fortson swap?
 

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wll since everyone gave their min. breakdown

its time for me to give mine (the 1st # is what i believe what will happen if eveyone is healthy but since that never happens the 2nd # what i believe they will actually get most of the time when one or 2 of the rotation is either playing hurt and their time is being limited or is just out of the line up period

1st the starting line up

Curry 28 , 32
tc 28, 32
rose 35 , 38
e-rob28 , 32
JC 24 28

rest of rotation

j will 24 28
fizer 28 32
marshall30 32
hassell 15 21 with bags and blount getting the remaining time at center 10 min or so depending on matchups and who we are playing

the rest getting spot min. or are in due to foul trouble
 

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Originally posted by <b>Showtyme</b>!

Transplant, the minutes are not as big a problem as you say... it's just that some players are going to get gypped, that is, not getting the minutes that their playing ability should warrant. Nevertheless, I think there will be enough love to spread around the floor.
Just to be clear, I hope I didn't give the impression that I see the minutes thing as a big problem. I just think that the Bulls have an unusual number of players who warrant playing time either because:

- They're good players
- They're young "franchise-type players" who need the time to develop
- They're young players who are unproven, have potential and in whom the franchise has a good deal invested.

This last group are the prime "tradeables" (ERob, Crawford, Fizer, and to a lesser extent, Bagaric). I think Krause likes all of them...he probably thinks more highly of them than his counterparts (that's why they haven't already been traded). Krause also knows that, long-term, particularly if they're as good as he thinks they are, he can't (or shouldn't) keep all of them because they'll be more valuable to other teams than they will be to the Bulls.

This is probably not a playoff year for the Bulls. 2003-04 is year 1 of "The Run." Cohesive role players are going to be needed. ERob, Crawford and Fizer may not have the emotional makeup to be great role players. I don't know them personally, but suspect that each thinks of himself as a featured player.

To maximize their trade value, these three (or maybe it's Williams or Marshall who should be traded), they have to show what they can do.

I could be wrong (God knows, it wouldn't be the first time), but I think the Bulls can't afford to "gyp" their trade bait insofar as PT is concerned. As I see it, 2002-03 is very early in Krause's chess game...he may not be playing to win just yet, no matter what he says.
 

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Crawford getting minutes at shooting guard is the real wild card

Depends on who we are playing and what the matchups are but you would expect offenses to run at him as a perceived weak link

Unless he develops and show that he can hold his own at SG , I think relying on any productive minutes at SG is a big gamble

To mitigate , you really have to go with your best perimeter defender which would probably be Trent and have your best help defender which ( gulp ) at the moment is probably Tyson. Jay helps starch up the perimeter with is strength and quickness - and if he can manage Eddy takes the back - although if he is in foul trouble I would probably be inclined to go for Blount at the back who is probably the best ( certainly the most experienced ) man on man post defender at this point.

So if Eddy was not in and you went for a more of a defensive flavour surrounding Jamal - that would force Tyson to be the principal inside target and in short bursts it may be good for him to develop some confidence on his offense with plays being run for him where he is the inside guy . - although a line up of Blount, Chandler, Hassell, Crawford and Williams would be more of a perimeter based offense with Williams and Hassell driving it in and Jamal floating outside to knock it down

There are some interesting possibilties and concepts - maybe you could cover for Jamal at 2 guard in limited minutes

The point is is that you almost have to put a structure around him by playing him there which is dependant upon the choice to play him there ( IE it all revolves around him ) and when you have a situation like this where you have to change the rotation/composition of who/what you are putting out there that revolves around one player ( who is not a principal front liner ) that player diminishes their worth slightly because of this lack of flexibility and the imposts it creates

If on the other hand you were changing your composition to suit say Eddy Curry - then that is another matter as he has more capacity to be dominant in his position and dictate how a game pans out.

If Jamal develops on the defensive end it obviously becomes a pleasant surprise and less of an issue in the accomodations you have to make shortcomings that are easily exposed
 

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Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
When its time for Jay to come in, everyone slides over a position. For example, Jamal slides over to the 2 spot and Jalen goes from two to three. Of course there will also be times when Jay comes in for Jamal, but I think this is the season to maximize JCraw's court time. As the season progresses, and Williams settles in and earns bigger minutes, Crawford plays more and more 2 guard.
The problem with sliding Rose over to SF is that, barring any trades involving Fizer or Robinson, we have two capable players purely devoted to the SF position, both of which the Bulls organization is very interested in (Donyell Marshall, Eddie Robinson), and two capable players at the PF position, at least one of which the Bulls organization is interested in (Chandler, Fizer). Shifting Rose to SF would mean Robinson or Fizer would get their minutes eaten by Marshall or Chandler.

That's why, as much as I like Rose at the SF, he's probably going to assemble most of his minutes at SG. I think there's a very tight ten-man rotation, with five starters and their backups.

Jamal/Jay (interchangable starters/bench, weighing one way or another as season wears on)
Rose/Hassell
Marshall/Robinson
Chandler/Fizer
Curry/Blount

Dali is the first outside the ten to come off the bench, then Hoiberg. The rest will rest.

If we take Jamal and stick him at SG, then we have no backup PG for Jay, leaving us thin there, and we have crowds at SF/PF.

The sliding doesn't work, unless a trade goes through involving Fizer or Robinson for a backup PG (Speedy Claxton or someone like that).
 
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