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Won't there need to be other parts traded? I don't think they match, but what a trade it would be...

-Petey
 

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Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
Won't there need to be other parts traded? I don't think they match, but what a trade it would be...

-Petey
The holdup on the deal last time was Minnesota's insistance that the Bulls take Peeler along with Wally. Krause balked and eventually McHale changed his mind and pulled Wally off the table.

If Krause and McHale start talks again you can bet Peeler and the three years that remain on his contract will be made a part of the package. That's alot for Krause to swallow. A hypothetical deal that would work under the CBA would see Wally and Peeler come to Chicago for Crawford, Fizer and Hoiberg. Someone on another thread suggested that with Crawford gone the Bulls could probably acquire Erick Barkley from San Antonio who's third on the PG chart behind Parker and Claxton.

I know this trade proposal has been beaten to death on several boards for well over a year. But at this juncture it might make sense for both teams. The Wolves need a quality PG. They also need a PF to challenge Joe Smith who apparently didn't bulk up in the offseason the way the Wolves had asked him to. Without going into old justifications, Wally is an all-star and the type of experienced young player who instantly makes our Bulls a playoff contender.

All I know is that there's trouble ahead if Crawford and Fizer eventually find themselves burried on the Bulls bench behind Williams and Chandler. And we all know that eventually that's exactly what's going to happen. So maybe it's time for Krause to take action before things get out of hand.
 

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Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
Crawford-Fizer for Szczerbiak!! How original.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...lumn,0,3878458.column?coll=cs-bulls-headlines
ESPN's Insider has expanded the list of potential suitors for Jamal Crawford:

Smith suggests a Crawford-and-Marcus Fizer-for-Wally Szczerbiak swap, and given the Wolves' desperate need for a point guard and a tough low-post player — and their reluctance to give Szczerbiak a huge contract extension — the trade makes sense for both teams.

The Magic have also pursued Crawford and Fizer in the past and might be willing to let Mike Miller and Darrell Armstrong go in return. The Sonics, Knicks and Wizards have also expressed interest in Crawford.

Minnesota, Orlando, Seattle, New York and Washington. I think you might be able to add a few more PG challenged teams to that list as well. Either way, I can't see Crawford remaining a Bull much longer, despite the damage contol remarks from Cartwright and Crawford's agent downplaying the incident.

It's been a rough week for the Bulls and their two lottery picks from the draft class of 2000. First we have Marcus Fizer's inadvertant brush with the law and now we're reading about Crawford's inability to deal with the challenge of competition. Right or wrong, anybody who thinks the Bulls will get anything but some other team's problem in exchange for these two guys is drinking way too much Bulls kool-aid.
 

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I really can't believe that we would trade for Wally and keep Rose, Marshall and E-Rob.

This would be tieing up $33M+ a year at the swing positions. And you know that JWill, Curry and Chandler will get paid.
 

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Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
I really can't believe that we would trade for Wally and keep Rose, Marshall and E-Rob.

This would be tieing up $33M+ a year at the swing positions. And you know that JWill, Curry and Chandler will get paid.
Reinsdorf has said the luxury tax is a non issue if the Bulls are a championship calibur team. So I don't see payroll dollars becoming a prohibitive factor if Krause is convinced that the addition of Wally will significantly improve the Bulls as an Eastern Conference contender.

Also, keep in mind that whoever Wally plays for this season, the chances of him getting a max contract extension are almost non-existent. He'll be fortunate to do as well as Rashard Lewis did this past summer. That makes a player of his ability an affordable commodity to the Bulls. And if they can't get him to agree to an extension there's always the chance of benifiting from a sign and trade next summer.

We're also operating on the premise that Krause needs to act proactively if he's to avoid having to deal with an immature roster loaded with unhappy players.

Here's ESPN's take on why this deal just might work:

The Wolves' starting point guard's career may be over. His replacement is a career journeyman. Their starting power forward a career bust. And their starting center is pouting that GM Kevin McHale didn't break open the bank after his 11.3 ppg, 6.7 rpg performance last season. Their bench is shaky and their two top players, Kevin Garnett and Wally Szczerbiak, are in contract years. Forgive us if we're a little skeptical.

The Timberwolves went just 17-16 last season after Terrell Brandon went down with a season-ending injury. Brandon's replacement, Chauncey Billups, signed a major deal with the Pistons over the summer and point guard Troy Hudson was the best they could do after a long string of rejections. Joe Smith, the guy who cost the team five first-round draft picks, is injured and didn't come into camp in the greatest of shape. How desperate are the Wolves for help this year? Loren Woods has made his way into the starting lineup (not that there's anything wrong with Woods, but you get the picture). While most of their Western Conference colleagues have improved, the Wolves may have regressed right out of the playoffs.

Minnesota has some critical decisions of its own to make. Whether they can get together with Krause on a deal that benifits both clubs remains to be seen. But its beginning to look like the greatest sin both GM's can commit is to maintain the status quo with their respective ballclubs.
 

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I think any trade speculation over this thing is kind of silly. This was a minor encounter in practice. Between Crawford and Cartwright the incident is likely to be forgotten in a matter of days. The only place that will rehash it ad naseum is the internet.

I will say though that the deal with Orlando looks pretty tempting. We get a solid vet pg to mentor JWill and we get a young swing former rookie of the year swing with some upside in Miller.
 

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Originally posted by <b>DickieHurtz</b>!
Reinsdorf has said the luxury tax is a non issue if the Bulls are a championship calibur team. So I don't see payroll dollars becoming a prohibitive factor if Krause is convinced that the addition of Wally will significantly improve the Bulls as an Eastern Conference contender.
Reinsdorf said that he would be willing to pay the lux tax IF the Bulls still made money AND were championship calibur.

Given the white-flag trade, his definition of a championship-level team is very high - I would guess it's at a minimum that of a top 3 team which we are a long way away from.

Side note: I would guess that Wally will find a contract b/t Lewis' deal and the Max. That's pretty rich and a whole lot of money to be tied up.
 

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Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
I think any trade speculation over this thing is kind of silly. This was a minor encounter in practice. Between Crawford and Cartwright the incident is likely to be forgotten in a matter of days. The only place that will rehash it ad naseum is the internet.

I will say though that the deal with Orlando looks pretty tempting. We get a solid vet pg to mentor JWill and we get a young swing former rookie of the year swing with some upside in Miller.
I'm not as confident that this can be dismissed as a minor encounter. JC definitely seems to have an attitude problem that needs adjusting.

I would still prefer the Bulls to make peace and find a way to develop and play both JC and JWill. But if they can't, I agree with Ace -- that potential Orlando deal sounds pretty nice, assuming "Eddie the Toe" won't get healthy and start playing at a high level pronto.
 

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Some Players I would NOT mind getting in a trade involving Crawford and/or Fizer:

Wizards:
Etan Thomas or Brendan Haywood - these guys offer big bodies, strong rebounding and shotblocking, and little offense. Either would be a perfect #3 PF/C for the Bulls to play behind Curry and Chandler.
Jared Jeffries - versatile forward who can rebound and pass. As he continues to add weight, will be able to play SF and PF with equal effectiveness (he measured in at 6'11 in bare feet!)

Magic:
Mike Miller - his long range bombs would really open our offense and give JWill and the big guys room to work. He'c comfortable in the starting 3 spot, or as a sixth man.

Sonics:
Jerome James - big body who could be a #3 big man for us
Desmond Mason - good defender and athlete who can log minutes at 2 or 3 for us.

T-Wolves:
Yes, I'm a Wally fan. His outside shot would be welcomed, though I have concern he might clash with Rose.

Knicks:
They got nobody we want.



Looking at all these scenarios, I think our best deal would be with the Wizards. MJ seems to have a major hard-on for Crawford and pre-draft wanted to deal the #11 for him. If we could somehow work a deal of Jeffries and Haywood for
Crawford, Fizer and Dali it would be ideal. I'd even settle for us giving up the same guys for Jeffries and Etan Thomas.

Either way, we bring in a good interior rebounder and defender who knows his place on the bench but will definitely contribute, and we get rid of some of our clutter. By getting Jeffries, we bring in a very good defender who has all-around skills and is rather unselfish on offense. Take a look at this rotation:

C - Curry/(Thomas/Haywood)/Blount
PF - Chandler/Marshall/Jeffries
SF - Erob/Jeffries/Marshall
SG - Rose/Hassell/Mason
PG - Williams/Rose/Mason

Anyways, I know it's unlikely to happen, but just a thought...
 

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I just don't think the Bulls should trade Crawford and Fizer unless they get what they need in return and that's interior defense. What good will Mike Miller, Wally No-Vowels, Peeler or any of those guys do for The Bulls? Not a whole lot, IMO. We have scoring. That's not an issue. We have swing-men with minimal defensive capabilities coming out our ears. The thing the Bulls need really bad is a tough center to mentor Curry and play a fair share of minutes. If we don't get that then why bother?

Nazr Mohammed, Bo Outlaw, Popeye Jones, Jerome James, freaking Scott Pollard for the love of Dalibar, Sabonis, Jason Collins

These guys aren't growing on trees. But if someone like this can't be included in the deal then why bother? Just to make Crawford happy? Screw it. Otherwise you're getting rid of a point guard battle and gaining a small forward battle. You think Wally and Jalen Rose are going to play well together? Along with Jay Williams? HEEEEELLLLLLLLLL NO!
 

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One thing I DO like from the Sam Smith article:

"Playing two point guards is like rotating quarterbacks in football.

A team develops a rhythm with its point guard. Players become accustomed to how the point guard delivers the ball and where he likes to play, where his passes will come from and how they will come. It's not unlike a quarterback working on timing and touch with a receiver."

I want to see a definite starter declared, and not just a "starter" in the sense of who starts the game, but a starter in the sense that he sets the tone for the offense. He is the number one floor general for the team; the backup, no matter how good, is still the backup.

If BC thinks that he can keep on giving equal time to both guards, I think he's somewhat mistaken, unless, as some have been pointing out in other threads, they are on the floor for some time together.

Otherwise, I am not opposed to trading Crawford. When Krause picked Jay Williams with the second overall pick, he wasn't just doing the consensus thing... he was bringing hope to Chicago. Getting Marshall and Blount was nice, sure, and it helps the team's level of experience and depth. But Jay Williams was the injection of fresh young energy that has polish and undeniable skill... if he doesn't get a lot of minutes, I don't think it would sit very well with the fans.

I am a Crawford fan, but I know that Jay has been deemed the man for the Bulls, and I don't think that those expectations are going to be disappointed. Because I like Crawford, I'd want to see him doing well for a different team.
 

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Lizzy, I agree with your analaysis of the wing players and like some of your suggestions:

Nazr Mohammed, Bo Outlaw, Scott Pollard LOL. in particular

Antonio Daniels and Shawn Battier might work, too.

Of that group, I think Pollard and Battier would be the least likely but most desirable.
 

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wally dosent bring anything special that we really need, there are better more versatile players that have more dimension to their games then just scoring/shooting

turkoglu is a better 3-point shooter/ passer/ball-handler and rebounder then wally who would come MUCH cheaper

mike dunleavy may be on the market IF the warriors draft lebron james, but thats a big IF, mikeD is better and more versatile then wally despite his lack of all star "credentials"
 

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Trade for Garnett!!!
Let's trade a package of everything unwanted + Rose for Da Kid.
Krause would ruin his good reputation, which doesn't exist anyway, so who cares. :uhoh:
Rose, Crawford, Fizer, Robinson, Bagaric( <=> Nesterovic ) and Blount + 1st rounder for Kevin Garnett and Marc Jackson at the deadline.
Sign Timmy Hardaway and we would look like this
1 - Jay Williams / Timmy Hardaway
2 - Trenton Hassell / Hoiberg
3 - Kevin Garnett / Marshall
4 - Tyson Chandler / Marshall
5 - Eddy Curry / Jackson
done for the next decade, through Drafts and FA we'll get role players.
 

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Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!

turkoglu is a better 3-point shooter/ passer/ball-handler and rebounder then wally who would come MUCH cheaper
Just because one player is an all-star dosen't mean he has more value. I am relatively confident that a) Turkey-glue has much higher value than sz-no vowels and b) We would have to give up a lot more than Crawford to steal him from the kings.
 

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I disagree. Wally Szcerbiak is a GIFTED ball player with a lot of heart, the Bulls would be lucky to have such a guy. That being said, he isn't a max player and I dont think the Bulls will deal for him.
 

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It's not that I don't think Wally GQ is a talented player. I just have no idea how he would help the Bulls situation. We need role players.
 

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I'd personally rather see us playing Baxter than Fizer. Also, moving Fizer opens up time for Marshall at PF, thus alleviating some of the crunch at SF. Moving Crawford makes Hassell the next best option at back-up PG, especially when Rose is on the floor playing point forward. This opens up time at SG. I've gone on at length on other forums about Wally Z-Back vs. his opponents. People who knock his defense don't watch the game or follow his stats.

I'd love the trade with Minny. I loved it a year ago, and neither Crawdad or Fizer have shown me anything better since then. Z-Back made the All-Star team since then.

Yes, we'd have to get creative with line-ups, but that's the nature of the NBA. Here is the roster and positions they play:

PG Jay, Rose, Mason(IR), (Peeler), Hassell(defensively)

SG Z-Back, Rose, Hassell, Hoiberg

SF Rose, Marshall, ERob

PF Tyke, Baxter, Marshall, Blount

C Curry, Blount, Bags, Tyke

Later, after ERob proves his value, we move him in combo with Hoiberg, Baxter, Blount, Bags, whomever to pick up a solid defensive center.

Let's do it.
 

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Showtyme:
I agree completely with your, and Smith's, comment about how having two PG's is the same as having two quarterbacks. What has struck me more than anything about JWILL is how the speed of the entire game changes when he steps on the court. As I have comented before, I don't see Crawford winning the starting PG spot under any circumstances. Its time the team gets fully acquainted to JWILL speed. Smith is right on the money-- Crawford will be a starter in this league, just not for the Bulls.

Ace:
Sacremento believes, and rightly so, that they will be contending this year. Turkoglu played a valuable role for the Kings in the playoffs, and I don't see Crawford being able to fill such a role this Season. JC is just too green for the Kings needs... because of the level of their team I see the Kings placing a much lower value on JC than the genral market and thus the total price the Bulls would have to give up for Turkoglu is much higher than the price they would have to pay for Sczerbiak.

Let me qualify Lizzy's comments (please correct me if I read you wrong)-- We need more role players means we need more rebounding, defensive, ball movement orientated Ben Wallace type players. Not Sczerbiak, Mercer, G. Robinson, type.
 
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