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Me personally I don't want any part of Jamison on the Bulls; he has a horrible contract and has been known to whine more that Oakley which Kruase doesn't want around Tyson and Eddy. For all the trades he writes about some of the other posters here could write for the paper and do a much better job.
 

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Which 4 players? I wasn't able to access the link dude to needing an account.

-Petey
 

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Smith: "Offer Jamal Crawford, Eddie Robinson and Marcus Fizer to Golden State for Antawn Jamison with a draft choice or Dalibor Bagaric thrown in."

I've always respected Smith's take on the state of the Bulls, whether I agree with his views or not. But this time he's wigged out. Compare these averages prorated over 48 minutes:

Jamison: 25.6ppg on 45% shooting and 8.8rpg.
Fizer: 22.9ppg on 44% shooting and 10.4rpg.
Chandler: 15.1ppg on 50% shooting and 11.9rpg.

No one will ever accuse me of being a big Marcus Fizer fan, though I do respect the amount of work he puts in each summer in an attempt to improve his overall game. But what makes Smith or anyone else think Jamison is a significant upgrade over what we already have? Granted, he's been in the league for 4 years which gives him an experience edge over Marcus and Tyson. But he's an average shooter and a less effective rebounder than Fizer (if that's humanly possible).

Sorry, Sam. Try again.
 

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JC fizer, robinson & bags for jamison


sometimes its real easy to believe ol' sam smith took the little bus to school
 

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I see what ***** is driving at - he most definately wants to consolidate talent for 1 effective ( but not earth shattering ) overpaid front court player

Its just that Brian Grant is not it

Nor is Antawn Jamison

GSW is an interesting trading partner though

With with the aid of some LSD , ***** may have come up with the following scenario that to my mind ( free from mind altering substances because I just say no ) may have looked like

GSW :

Trades Jamison and Sura( to Seattle )
Trades : Fortson ( to Toronto )
Trades : Foyle and Arenas ( to New York )
Trades : Jiri Welsh ( to Chi )

Receives : Marcus Fizer, Jamal Crawford, Kenny Andersen, Lindsay Hunter , Nate Huffman and Vitaly Potapenko

Toronto :

Trades : Huffman and Hunter ( to GSW )
Receives : Danny Fortson and Roger Mason Jr

New York :

Trades : Kurt Thomas and Charlie Ward ( to Chi )
Receives : Adonal Foyle, Eddie Robinson and Gilbert Arenas

Seattle :

Trade : Andersen and Potapenko ( to GSW )
Receives : Antawn Jamison and Bobby Sura

Chicago :

Trades : Fizer, Crawford ( to GSW ) , ERob ( to NY ) and Roger Mason Jr ( to Toronto )
Receives : Kurt Thomas, Charlie Ward and Jiri Welsh + future protected 1st round picks/ 2nd round picks from either/or ( or both ) from GSW and Toronto .

Warriors

Dampier/Potapenko/Huffman
Fizer/ Murphy
Dunleavy /Mills
Richardson/Hunter
Andersen/Crawford/Alston

Why

Out of the weight of Jamison's contract where there is no longer of a max player trying to be a main man he is not equipped to be. Get rid of Fortson who has not been happy there and who would not be happy ( or needed ) behind Marcus Fizer and Troy Murphy. GSW get nothing out of Foyle except some post defense and some shotblocking / rebounding . In Potapenko they get a guy who has better offensive capacity than Damp and Foyle combined. I would even expect the Warriors to run Murphy and Fizer at the 5 and 4 respectively. The frontline is further fortified with Huffman making up with the loss of Foyle at back up Center

They upgrade at point with Crawford and Andersen over Arenas/Welsh ( Welsh more a combo 2 ) but even though they upgrade with young talent in Crawford and Fizer , the pain of losing the promising Welsh is mitigated by acquiring vet Lindsay Hunter


Toronto

A Davis / N'Diaye/Montross
Fortson/ JYD / Bradley
CJeffries/Murray
Carter/ Petersen
A.Williams /Mason Jr

Why

Well AD has to play Center - there is no question with about that with the Dream all over and Montross going down . He needs rebounding/banging help which is where Fortson comes in who has a chance to start . JYD is great for a back up PF/SF but the Raps are just two small if they start him . Fortson may not have the height but he has the bulk.

CJeff gets to start which puts two good defenders either side of Fortson - Lamond Murray comes off the bench with Mo Pete as 7th and 6th man respectively - JYD and N'Diaye rounding out a core ( but shallow 8 man rotation ) which improves when Roger makes it back after Xmas - Roger may give them everything Lindsay Hunter gave them ( cept the experience at this stage ) but over time he is an upgrade with upside over Lindsay Hunter

Bottom line is Fortson shoulders the rebounding load on AD allowing him to focus as post defender and inside offensive weapon

Raps would need to go after a point to round it out until Rog makes it back - maybe Rod Strickland

New York

Foyle/Harrington/Doleac
McDyess/Weatherspoon/Knight
Sprewell/E.Robinson
Houston/S.Andersen
Arenas/ Eisley/ F.Williams

Why

Arenas gives them a fresh funky and cheeky point - they get a legit Center with size that focuses on D while Dice, Houston and Spree score. They get their 6th man in ERob to give up vet point in Charlie .

They will miss Kurt T but Adonal will bang and board too with true Center size. Kurt's snappy post play on offense will get absorbed by Dice


Seattle

James/Booth/Drobnak
Jamison/ Radmanovic/Sesay
Lewis/ Radmanovic
Barry/Mason/Forte
Payton/Sura/Forte

Why

Acquiring Jamison shows the Glove they are committed to winning now. They have resigned Shard and gotten through that storm, Shard is a boarding 3 which makes up for Twan's deficiency in this area as a 4 and they have a legit post scoring option that complements Glove, Shard and Brent Barry.

Moving Kenny Andersen also sends a message to the Glove that Mgt is giving up its defensive ploy and they want to show Glove some love in the Summer of Love ( of 2003 )

If Glove can focus on ball - you might see Twan explode with a decent point - couple this with Payton scoring in his own right - Barry, Shard and Rad peppering the perimeter and James, Booth and Mase locking down inside and out ...... and if this team gets its poo together they could be an WC finals contender the year after next - 2nd round for sure this year.

Be a damn nice recovery for a franchise that was teetering on the brink of implosion last month

Chicago

Curry / Thomas / Bagaric
Chandler / Thomas- Marshall / Baxter
Rose / Marshall
Hassell / Welsh / Hoiberg
J.Williams/Ward/ Brunson

Why

Call me crazy but Jiri is going to blow this league up and would seem the ideal combo guard that would be a perfect fit for the triangle

Besides its all Euro these days baby - we gotta get us one of those !!!!!!

I have long longed for Kurt Thomas to work a core 3 man rotation with Tyson and Eddy and he not only steels our defense inside but he is a credible inside post option on offense as well.

I have long had a chubby ( a long chubby ) for Charlie Ward as well - to my mind an excellent vet point who can hit the long shot - defend like there is no tomorrow and the man just does not turn the ball over . Very steady point . Outside of these attributes he can lead the locker room in prayer meetings

But make no mistake Thomas and Ward - with Jay and Hassell and ultimately Chandler make us a very tough defensive outfit

Rose, Jay and Curry are our principal offensive weapons with Hassell and Tyson locking down outside and inside respectively

Welsh, Marshall and Thomas leading the bench in offensive options with Ward and Baxter focusing in on defensive commitment outside and inside respectively

Know a good jeweller that can start sizing these boys up for their rings Jerry ?

With this team we would have the opportunity of going deep in the playoffs with a pick between 15 - 20 where we could nab our ERob replacement in my early favourite in next year's draft - Darius Rice to bolster the 3 spot and to be groomed when Yell finishes his tour of duty
 

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Sorry, FJ. I just don't see that line up a championship team. Charlie Ward and Kurt Thomas are on the decline, and were part of a team that stunk last year. Thomas also just got busted for beating on his wife. I don't know about Welsh, but I don't see superstar written all over that guy.

Hell of an effort coming up with all of that. Your fingers must have been sore after that effort.

That is the second consecutive article Sam Smith wrote that was utter garbage. These fantasy trades for "round peg in square holes" type players is assinine. I cannot believe he gets paid a decent salary to write such nonsense. It couldn't happen, it shouldn't happen, and it ain't gonna happen.

Jamison is a 'tweener" who doesn't really fit into either forward position. We don't need another Fizer type experiment at small forward.

I think despite obvious flaws on this roster it is time to stop tinkering and let the games begin. If you find a back up point guard or center to replace the stiffs we have then fine. But lets keep Fizer, Robinson, and Crawford until at least the trade deadline to see what we have. If they improve, the return we get in a trade will go up. It also gives them the chance to prove they are the actual players we need.

Let's see what happens.
 

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Interesting side note in that article

Coming off his $34 million deal this summer, the Cavs' Ricky Davis was AWOL and said he forgot Monday was the first day of training camp. Is this a great league or what? Others who blew off opening day: Anthony Mason, Jason Caffey and Gary Payton, plus Darius Miles, who said he overslept.

Sheesh. :rolleyes:
 

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Re: Interesting side note in that article

Originally posted by <b>Kneepad</b>!
Coming off his $34 million deal this summer, the Cavs' Ricky Davis was AWOL and said he forgot Monday was the first day of training camp. Is this a great league or what? Others who blew off opening day: Anthony Mason, Jason Caffey and Gary Payton, plus Darius Miles, who said he overslept.

Sheesh. :rolleyes:
Looks like the Cavs are off to a good start. :dead:


:bbanana:
 

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Re: Interesting side note in that article

Originally posted by <b>Kneepad</b>!
Coming off his $34 million deal this summer, the Cavs' Ricky Davis was AWOL and said he forgot Monday was the first day of training camp. Is this a great league or what? Others who blew off opening day: Anthony Mason, Jason Caffey and Gary Payton, plus Darius Miles, who said he overslept.

Sheesh. :rolleyes:
You know, if I was in the L, I'd take a minimum salary and be there 2 hours early.

This is the problem with spoiled basketball players.
 

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SMith's headline should have read,

"Here's another BAD idea"

Though this would be a great trade for Golden State

Have to agree with sinking ship on this one... Jamison is an overpaid tweener.

Now in all of SMith's inane proposals, who is left in the
back court for depth at the point to trade for depth in
the frontcourt?

Jwill, Overton, Brunson?

Since Chandler, Donyell, Blount, and Fizer can play the 4
plus Chandler, Curry and Blount can play the 5
minutes in the front court aren't as big of an issue
as Smith makes them out to be.

Jamsion isn't really even that effective of a 4
and can't play the 5
 

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Re: Re: Interesting side note in that article

Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!


You know, if I was in the L, I'd take a minimum salary and be there 2 hours early.

This is the problem with spoiled basketball players.
These are the types of issues that support Krause's conviction that character matters, and in many cases takes priority over pure ability. Unfortunately a player's "personality quirks" often go unreported by the media, leaving many fans in a fog about why their team's GM doesn't seem interested in pursuing a particularly talented player. It's something we all need to keep in mind when we're caught off guard by what we perceive to be a lopsided trade or puzzled by the lack of interest teams may have in someone who puts up good numbers.
 

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Yeah, definitley another stinker by Smith. He seems to really undervalue Bulls players IMO. In any case, Jamison or Grant are not the answer for the Bulls.
 

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Smith must have received major crap in his e-mail box for his Grant proposal. Notice how he starts out by backpedaling:

OK, Jerry, so you don't want Brian Grant. I can understand ... somewhat. The Heat's Grant isn't worth the $11 million to $15 million per season he'll make over the next few years.

The thing I don't get is why Smith suddenly feels the Bulls should shoot their wad and acquire one of these overpaid players, permanently crippling their cap flexibility in the process. Krause has always worked very hard to keep the payroll in check—when was the last time the Bulls had a cap-killing, overpaid player such as Grant or Jamison on their roster?—why should he now go out and undo all that in one fell swoop?

But no one should be fooled. The Bulls still need front-court help to win 30 games, and there's another deal out there that makes sense for both teams. It could put the Bulls in the playoffs this season and retain their young core.

Since when is winning 30 games the goal? I realize most Bulls fans are expecting at least 30 wins from this year's team, and I would be as disappointed as anyone if they fail to reach that goal. But achieving it should not preclude the Bulls from eventually winning a championship.

This move doesn't take away from the potential of the kids. It does cost some money down the road when Jamison becomes a highly paid backup.

It may be true that it doesn't disrupt the Curry / Chandler / Williams core. But Jamison is signed for very near max money through 2008. 2008! "Highly-paid backup" is putting it mildly. Sam seems to forget that we're on the hook for Rose through 2007, and that the CCW core is going to be expecting their payday long before Jamison's contract comes off the books. Where is all that money supposed to come from?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
thats why i posted the article. Sam smith has had a bad summer! I can not believe the things he comes up with. Now granted there was talk early last season about Grant coming here. But it was just talk. And as for jamison? No thanks.

As for OT: :eek: omg! One over sleeps and one forgets. Um...How does one get paid millions of dollars a year to do a job...forget? I'd like to see one of us do that at our job....'um sir, i forgot we worked today":grinning:
 

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Smith is in a slump.

Maybe he'll warm it up again midseason, he usually has some nuggets around trade deadline in the least. He was all over the Bulls-Indiana deal, and his adamant public support may have even helped it get done. But since then its been a couple sniffs, lots of whiffs, and yes, a bunch of stiffs.

At least he isn't writing White Sox articles anymore. Yikes.


VD
 

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Ugh... purely for off-the court reasons, we don't want Charlie Ward (Bible Thumper), Kurt Thomas (Wife Thumper), or Jamison (not as tough as Thumper from Bambi).

On the Golden State subject, I still feel that Fortson really isn't the cancer he's made out to be. I think he's getting his chops busted because Jamison wants his position even though he's not much better. We'd be way better off getting Fortson, or maybe Murphy to satisfy our additional big man need than we would getting a prima donna who plays soft.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
Ugh... purely for off-the court reasons, we don't want Charlie Ward (Bible Thumper), Kurt Thomas (Wife Thumper), or Jamison (not as tough as Thumper from Bambi).

On the Golden State subject, I still feel that Fortson really isn't the cancer he's made out to be. I think he's getting his chops busted because Jamison wants his position even though he's not much better. We'd be way better off getting Fortson, or maybe Murphy to satisfy our additional big man need than we would getting a prima donna who plays soft.
fortson would come cheaper. No doubt about it and for what we need him for he would do fine. We wouldnt have to trade off half the team....Geeesssss Sam......lets keep some of the team!!!
 

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Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
On the Golden State subject, I still feel that Fortson really isn't the cancer he's made out to be.
Forston would be terrible. His D is miserable, he is a black hole on O, and far away from a team player. The teams that traded him away and GSW are a lot worse in the front court than we are. That should say something.

Fizer and/or Marshall at 4 will give us at least 90% IF NOT MORE than of any of these rumored names (Grant, Jamerson, Fortson). C&C better give us 150% of what these guys can do in 18 months.

Give the current roster a chance!
 
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