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Take a look at the Sonics-Mavs-Pistons three-way below--what do you think about it?

  • I love it!

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The Sonics and Mavs are apparently trying desperately to work out a three-way trade involving Rashard Lewis and Gary Payton at the moment. The Sonics have given Rashard Lewis until Wednesday to accept their 7 yr $64 million offer, then they're going to move on (by signing Lee Nailon and Popeye Jones). It is in Rashard Lewis's best interests for this three-way to happen, otherwise, he will have to settle for a measly 3 yr $15 mil deal with Dallas. WHO IS THIS MYSTERY THIRD TEAM? The Sonics get young players and expiring contracts, the Mavs get Rashard Lewis and unwanted contracts, but WHO GETS GARY PAYTON?

Detroit? If it's Detroit--and that's who I think it is--there is NO DOUBT who my pick for the NBA Finals out of the East will be. The only other contender for Payton appears to be Indiana.

Either Rashard Lewis accepts Seattle's offer by Wednesday, which means that Gary Payton stays, OR Lewis and Payton get traded in a three-way, OR Lewis signs with Dallas, forcing Seattle to trade Payton (since Payton will refuse to re-sign with the Sonics next summer if they're going to suck, and they WILL suck if Lewis leaves).

By the way, here's a trade that would totally work, a three-way between Detroit, Dallas, and Seattle. Let's say that Rashard Lewis is signed to that 7 yr $64 mil deal, that Eduardo Najera signs a 3 yr $9 mil deal, and that Wang Zhi Zhi signs a 3 yr $7.5 mil deal. Here it is:

Gary Payton and Avery Johnson (two years left on his deal) to the Pistons; Rashard Lewis and Chucky Atkins (who can play backup PG if/when Mark Cuban finally trades Nick Van Exel) to the Mavs; Clifford Robinson (contract expires at the end of the season), Jon Barry (contract expires at the end of the season), Rodney White, Wang Zhi Zhi, Eduardo Najera, the Grizzlies' 2003 1st round pick (via Detroit), the Mavs' 2003 1st round pick to the Sonics

Mark Cuban can THEN finally pull the trigger on that long-rumored Van Exel-for-Kurt Thomas and Charlie Ward deal. Here's how the three teams would then look in 2002-03:

DETROIT PISTONS

Starting lineup

PG Gary Payton (36 minutes/game)
SG Richard Hamilton (36 minutes/game)
SF Michael Curry (24 minutes/game)
PF Ben Wallace (36 minutes/game)
C Zeljko Rebraca (20 minutes/game)

Key reserves: Chauncey Billups (24 minutes/game), Corliss Williamson (24 minutes/game), Tayshaun Prince (16 minutes/game), Mehmet Okur (12 minutes/game), Bobby Simmons (12 minutes/game)

End of the bench (no PT): Hubert Davis, Pepe Sanchez

Stashed on the IR: Avery Johnson

PROJECTED 2002-03 RECORD: 55-27 (first in the East)

DALLAS MAVERICKS

Starting lineup

PG Steve Nash (36 minutes/game)
SG Michael Finley (36 minutes/game)
SF Rashard Lewis (36 minutes/game)
PF Dirk Nowitzki (40 minutes/game)
C Raef LaFrentz (32 minutes/game)

Key reserves: Kurt Thomas (20 minutes/game), Chucky Atkins (12 minutes/game), Adrian Griffin (12 minutes/game), Shawn Bradley (8 minutes/game), Evan Eschmeyer (8 minutes/game)

End of the bench (no PT): Charlie Ward, Tariq Abdul-Wahad

PROJECTED 2002-03 RECORD: 58-24 (third in the West)

SEATTLE SUPERSONICS

Starting lineup

PG Brent Barry (32 minutes/game)
SG Desmond Mason (32 minutes/game)
SF Vladimir Radmanovic (28 minutes/game)
PF Clifford Robinson (24 minutes/game)
C Jerome James (16 minutes/game)

Key reserves: Jon Barry (16 minutes/game), Kenny Anderson (16 minutes/game), Eduardo Najera (16 minutes/game), Wang Zhi Zhi (16 minutes/game), Calvin Booth (16 minutes/game), Predrag Drobnjak (16 minutes/game), Rodney White (12 minutes/game)

Stashed on the IR: Vitaly Potapenko, Ansu Sesay, Joe Forte (poor Joe Forte!)

PROJECTED 2002-03 RECORD: 25-57 (fifth-worst record in the league)

The contracts of Kenny Anderson, Clifford Robinson, and Jon Barry all expire at the end of the 2002-03 season, which will give the Sonics about $4-$5 mil in cap room. Not enough to sign a top 2003 free agent, but at least the payroll will be back around $40 million. Keep in mind that the Sonics will have two HIGH 2003 lottery picks (their own and the Grizzlies', so probably around #4 and #5 overall) along with a late 1st rounder (the Mavs' pick, probably #27 overall).

By the way, I have no idea if Brent Barry can really play PG, but it's worth a shot, isn't it? Seems like the best way to get Desmond Mason AND Vladimir Radmanovic INTO the starting lineup is to keep Kenny Anderson OUT OF the starting lineup, don't you think? Gotta love that occasional Barry Brothers Backcourt!
 

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the sonics cant do that deal,they wouldnt be able to explain it to their fans.as rediculous as it sounds i'm not sure i wouldnt do it,i'm just saying seattle needs more up front.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
too complicated....Cliff Robinson and Rodney White for Rashard Lewis....simpler
Nope, that trade doesn't work salary-wise, try again.

You better believe that Joe Dumars would like to get his hands on Gary Payton. Joe Dumars was a defensive star who could fill it up from the perimeter. Guess what Gary Payton is? A defensive star who can fill it up from the perimeter. This deal isn't as complicated as you guys think, these four things need to happen:

1) Payton agrees to long-term extension with Detroit (say, 6 yrs $70 mil);

2) Lewis agrees to sign 7 yr $64 mil deal if it means he plays with Dallas, not Seattle;

3) Wang Zhi Zhi agrees to something like 3 yrs $7.5 mil (he probably can't do any better than that on his own);

4) Eduardo Najera agrees to something like 3 yrs $9.0 mil (he can't do any better on his own, either)

These four things seem awfully conceivable to me, fellas. The hang-up will probably involve that 2003 Grizzlies 1st round pick. I happen to think that the Pistons best chance at making the NBA Finals is NOW, not LATER, so I think Dumars would agree to part ways with that pick as long as he gets Payton. What is he REALLY giving up besides the pick? He isn't going to re-sign either Clifford Robinson OR Jon Barry next season, he doesn't need Chucky Atkins signed to a 4-year deal if he has Gary Payton and Chauncey Billups (and Pepe Sanchez as a third-stringer), he has effectively admitted that Rodney White is a bust (otherwise, he wouldn't have drafted Tayshaun Prince, who has already moved ahead of White on the Pistons' depth chart). This trade makes the Pistons an INSTANT co-favorite (along with the Nets) to make the NBA Finals in 2002-03.

Rashard Lewis would agree to that contract because that's as good as it's going to get for the guy and he KNOWS it. Eduardo Najera and Wang Zhi Zhi should both be thrilled to get more than the league minimum at this point (it's mid-September!).

As for Seattle not being able "to explain it to their fans," well, whatever. Try explaining it to your fans a year from now when you let Gary Payton walk a summer after you let Rashard Lewis walk. Seattle needs to get SOMETHING for these guys--I think that a high lottery pick (from the Grizz via Detroit) and some decent young prospects (Rodney White, Eduardo Najera, and Wang Zhi Zhi) is pretty obviously better than NOTHING.

In any event, if something like this happens, it's going to happen in the next 48 hours, so we'll find out soon enough.
 

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Hi Roby,
I have a question for you...It appears to me that Cliff Robinson makes apx 7.5 million per year...i am approximating since i am just comparing him to charlie ward who makes around 5 and according to realgm Robinson makes 50% more than ward...So,why couldnt seattle sign Lewis for 8-9 million and then make the trade for Robinson and White????

Then next year Robinsons contract is up and maybe he could be had for the 4.5 million exemption or just let him go..Plus maybe White can be the player he was touted as and now Seattle has money to enter into the free agent market.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
Hi Roby,
I have a question for you...It appears to me that Cliff Robinson makes apx 7.5 million per year...i am approximating since i am just comparing him to charlie ward who makes around 5 and according to realgm Robinson makes 50% more than ward...So,why couldnt seattle sign Lewis for 8-9 million and then make the trade for Robinson and White????
The main reason why Seattle and Rashard Lewis are at such an impasse is because of the luxury tax. Seattle cannot afford to give Lewis anything close to the max, he wants the max.

The contract that Lewis has apparently agreed to play for, so long as it's not with the Sonics--7 yrs $64 mil--would start at around $6.5 mil. Clifford Robinson makes $8.4 mil in the last year of his contract. So, you couldn't even trade Lewis for Clifford Robinson straight up, much less Robinson AND Rodney White.

If Seattle were willing to give Lewis the kind of contract that YOU'RE talking about, he would've signed with them two months ago. But they're not. It's not so much that they don't think that Lewis is worth $8-$9 mil, it's that, if they gave him that kind of money, they'd be in luxury tax territory, and if they took on that kind of money in a sign-and-trade, they'd ALSO be in luxury tax territory. If they signed him to a deal starting out at around $6.5 mil, and shipped him off in exchange for $6.5 mil worth of contracts, they would NOT be in luxury tax territory.

Plus, what exactly would the Sonics be getting out of that deal you're talking about, ANYWAY? Rodney White? If Detroit is gets involved here, Seattle is going to want to get that 2003 Grizz 1st round pick from them. I don't really think Detroit is a contender for Lewis, anyway--Detroit is probably a contender for GARY PAYTON, though. Lewis appears headed to Dallas, one way or the other.
 

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thanks....well,you heard my prediction...NO WAY he signs with Dallas,and to be honest in todays precarious cap structure,a 64 million base plus 24 million in incentives ait so bad
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
...to be honest in todays precarious cap structure,a 64 million base plus 24 million in incentives ait so bad
I totally agree. But I think that he is so disgusted with Seattle management that he'll refuse to sign that deal with the Sonics. He WILL agree to that contract, so long as he doesn't have to play in Seattle.

Like I said, YOU BETTER BELIEVE that Lewis's agent and Mark Cuban were on the phone with Joe Dumars and/or Donnie Walsh ALL DAY TODAY and that they'll be on the phone with those two dudes ALL DAY TOMORROW, too.
 

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Roby,i dont see walsh trading for lewis..Are they giving up on bender or harrington??I know they would love to move Croshere,but i dont see the fit in Indiana,even if payton is involved
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
Roby,i dont see walsh trading for lewis..Are they giving up on bender or harrington??I know they would love to move Croshere,but i dont see the fit in Indiana,even if payton is involved
Again, we're talking about a three-way here. Lewis ends up in Dallas, Payton in either Indiana or Detroit, Seattle gets draft picks, prospects, and expiring contracts.
 

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I don't see Payton in Detroit, Indiana might not be so bad but Detroit naw they just got Billups. Who would the Pacers give up is the question I wouldn't give up any young talent for Payton, maybe Croshere but thats about it, wouldn't risks Bender ,Harrington or others for that deal, Why does Dallas want Lewis so bad I think he's a solid player with a nice jumper and a developing off the dribble game but he plays no dfense and they already have a team loaded with weak defenders, they need some toughness so Payton to the Mavs makes more sense to me he plays good defense which they need, they could slide him to the 2 play Finley at the three and so on, the Mavs should be in the Market for a Kandi man next summer that would be a great fit as well.
 

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Why would the Pistons unload an older player for a younger one if they gonna trade for Payton?

Also I don't think this is likely cause the Grizzles pick is protected if they get the number 1 pick. So with the chance of not getting the pick, Seattle will want the Pistons pick and then some.

-Petey
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
Why would the Pistons unload an older player for a younger one if they gonna trade for Payton?
What do you mean? In the trade scenario I gave, the Pistons get Gary Payton and Avery Johnson (whose contract expires in just two years) and give up Clifford Robinson (who they won't re-sign next summer), Jon Barry (who wouldn't get many minutes in a Payton/Hamilton/Billups backcourt), Rodney White (who is behind Tayshaun Prince on the depth chart), and Chucky Atkins (four years left on his contract, you don't want to have a third-string PG locked up for the next four years). Plus they give up that 1st round pick. Great trade for Detroit.

Also I don't think this is likely cause the Grizzles pick is protected if they get the number 1 pick. So with the chance of not getting the pick, Seattle will want the Pistons pick and then some.

-Petey
If the Pistons don't get the Grizzlies' pick in 2003, they will DEFINITELY get it in 2004. The Sonics are faced with the possibility of getting NOTHING IN RETURN for either Payton OR Lewis. They will take whatever they can get at this point. The Grizzlies' pick in 2004 will be a lottery pick, too, you know. Again, getting a high lottery pick, Rodney White, Wang Zhi Zhi, and Eduardo Najera beats the hell out of nothing, don't you think?

So the Sonics are getting a lottery pick AND then some, don't you think? Again, beats the HELL out of NOTHING AT ALL, which is what they'll get if Lewis walks this summer and Payton walks next summer.
 

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robyg I really like that deal for all teams.
 

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Originally posted by <b>tenkev</b>!
robyg I really like that deal for all teams.
So do I-good job :yes:
 

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it was a fun exercise,but there was NO WAY lewis was not gonna sign...seattle played it smart,unlike the Knicks with Houston....The economic landscape has changed with the cap,and i for one am very happy
 
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