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Anti Monday Morning QB
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Discussion Starter #1
@PeterVecsey1

I did learn during function that Nazr Mohammed agreed to sign w Bulls (vs. Nets) meaning they won't match Houston offer match sheet to Asik
Not completely confirmed, but if true, I like this signing better than adding Darko. A bit more offense and rebounding than Darko, and a bit of a downgrade defensively. Probably much more consistent.

Hinrich / Teague
Rip / Belinelli
Deng / Butler / Radmanovic
Boozer / Gibson / Radmanovic
Noah / Mohammed

Could use a PG/SG and a PF/C to fill out to 14. The guard is probably a bit more important.
 

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I wonder if the rotation gets filled out with Mike James. I have a hard time seeing Teague getting all the backup minutes at PG this year. Though perhaps they're willing to tough it out with Teague and give him development minutes until Derrick is back. Obviously, it's a logjam once Rose returns if you sign another PG.
 

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I would love to see Teague get his shot at 16 minutes a game for the first 25 or 30 games to see what he can do.
 

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jnjr, I don't see Teague anywhere but in the development league this year.

Yeah, Mike James would be alright, if he's willing.
 

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Anti Monday Morning QB
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Discussion Starter #6
Aggrey Smith reporting from twitter that Belinelli to the Bulls is complete.

Other twitter musings are that the Bulls are in talks with Randy Foye and Malcolm Thomas both on one-year deals.

Hinrich/Foye/Teague
Rip/Belinelli
Deng/Butler/Radmanovic
Boozer/Gibson/Thomas
Noah/Mohammed

That's 14 with Rose. Depth pretty much everywhere except at C, still leaving the consolidation trade doors open.
 

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jnjr, I don't see Teague anywhere but in the development league this year.

Yeah, Mike James would be alright, if he's willing.

Really? I didn't even think of that to tell you the truth. It makes sense to an extent, but I think with Rose out, and the minutes available, why not just play him here for 14-16 a game instead of 28 in the D-League. He obviously was brought in to be a part of the future as a back-up to Rose...Might as well get him the experience now while the minutes are available... Also, he will get familiar with Thibs, the players, and the system.
 

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Not completely confirmed, but if true, I like this signing better than adding Darko. A bit more offense and rebounding than Darko, and a bit of a downgrade defensively. Probably much more consistent.

Hinrich / Teague
Rip / Belinelli
Deng / Butler / Radmanovic
Boozer / Gibson / Radmanovic
Noah / Mohammed

Could use a PG/SG and a PF/C to fill out to 14. The guard is probably a bit more important.
So what does this team accomplish? I'm curious.
 

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Anti Monday Morning QB
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Discussion Starter #9
So what does this team accomplish? I'm curious.
I'd say about 5th in the East, and perhaps a bit better if Rose comes back earlier than March.

The season was a wash when Rose tore his ACL. At least they aren't overpaying for players to win now, which seems to be one of your largest gripes against GarPax.
 

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Beware of Elbows
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Out:
C.J. Watson
John Lucas
Ronnie Brewer
Kyle Korver
Omer Asik

In:
Kirk Hinrich
Marquis Teague
Vladimir Radmanovic
Marco Belinelli
Nazr Mohammed

Really not that bad of a tradeoff, but they could still use another shooter on the wing and they have the Korver TPE to play with. I am still bewildered as to why they wouldn't trade a future 1st Round Pick for Courtney Lee, using the Korver TPE. Houston certainly would have preferred that to Boston's deal, and Lee would get more PT in Chicago.

If Jimmy Butler develops into a decent NBA player, there might not be any drop-off at all.
 

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I'd say about 5th in the East, and perhaps a bit better if Rose comes back earlier than March.

The season was a wash when Rose tore his ACL. At least they aren't overpaying for players to win now, which seems to be one of your largest gripes against GarPax.
Wait, you think I want them to overpay for players to win now??

In what universe? I'm mad about the players this jag off has been overpaying for years, starting with paying Chandler a deal he didn't have to pay, through Wallace and onto Deng.

Which of these deals were you not in favor of?

I want to win in 2014 and beyond, but I want to win rings, not regular season championships. A hard tank would help that.

Nazr Mohammed. LOL what is this 2005? I'm curious. What are your thoughts on signing Detlef Schrempf? He's a really cagey try hard guy who had no scoring ability. I mean, he can't be older than 55, can he?

Is John Starks available? Charles Oakley? Why stop there? Call Jerry Sloan and tell him to get here right away, as a player.

Nazr Mohammed lol. Antonio McDyess is pissed that he couldn't get some run.
 

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Are you really going to pick apart these trivial bench signings? Mohammad is signing a cheap 1-yr deal to play probably 10-15 minutes per game at backup center. This is all about filling out a roster with cheap short term deals. Nobody is expecting him to light the world on fire.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Wait, you think I want them to overpay for players to win now??

In what universe? I'm mad about the players this jag off has been overpaying for years, starting with paying Chandler a deal he didn't have to pay, through Wallace and onto Deng.

Which of these deals were you not in favor of?

I want to win in 2014 and beyond, but I want to win rings, not regular season championships. A hard tank would help that.

Nazr Mohammed. LOL what is this 2005? I'm curious. What are your thoughts on signing Detlef Schrempf? He's a really cagey try hard guy who had no scoring ability. I mean, he can't be older than 55, can he?

Is John Starks available? Charles Oakley? Why stop there? Call Jerry Sloan and tell him to get here right away, as a player.

Nazr Mohammed lol. Antonio McDyess is pissed that he couldn't get some run.
No. Absent a trade, I thought you would have been at least satisfied with offseason plan B. Fill out the roster with short term deals so you can retool sooner rather than later.

I do not want them to pay Asik. In fact, I was in the low minority that wanted to trade him last summer for whatever we could get and pick up a cheap vet to replace him that at least could provide something offensively.

I was against them paying Chandler. I was also against them paying Gordon. I didn't like the Wallace signing, but didn't hate it. Same with the Boozer signing (we had to get someone to make a run the only offseason to do it). I also understand you feel that the Deng signing is what caused this so you opine that the (bad) Deng signing led to an (even worse) Boozer signing.

I still think Deng is fairly paid over the life of his contract. I also think Noah has a good contract relative to his value. I know we differ on both of those opinions.

Am I excited by the Nazr signing, no? I do like it better than Darko. I'm not going to get worked up either way about who we get on a one-year rental with the vet minimum. I'd be shocked if he averaged over 15 mpg for us.

Hinrich at the money is fine. I like the Belinelli signing and Teague was the guy I wanted once he dropped, so I liked both of those moves, albeit relatively unimpactful. Neither Hinrich or Belinelli will hurt the 2014 flexibility, and should be solid rotation guys both years.
 

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Really? I didn't even think of that to tell you the truth. It makes sense to an extent, but I think with Rose out, and the minutes available, why not just play him here for 14-16 a game instead of 28 in the D-League. He obviously was brought in to be a part of the future as a back-up to Rose...Might as well get him the experience now while the minutes are available... Also, he will get familiar with Thibs, the players, and the system.
I think they'll try to get Teague to the point of being a contributor. But Thibs is not somebody who plays someone just to play him. They know Teague needs development. The question is whether he'll get better development in the D-League (for all its faults) or in practice and on the bench.

At least, we'll have a real NBA schedule instead of the crap from last year, so there'll be actual practices.
 

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Wait, you think I want them to overpay for players to win now??

In what universe? I'm mad about the players this jag off has been overpaying for years, starting with paying Chandler a deal he didn't have to pay, through Wallace and onto Deng.

Which of these deals were you not in favor of?

I want to win in 2014 and beyond, but I want to win rings, not regular season championships. A hard tank would help that.

Nazr Mohammed. LOL what is this 2005? I'm curious. What are your thoughts on signing Detlef Schrempf? He's a really cagey try hard guy who had no scoring ability. I mean, he can't be older than 55, can he?

Is John Starks available? Charles Oakley? Why stop there? Call Jerry Sloan and tell him to get here right away, as a player.

Nazr Mohammed lol. Antonio McDyess is pissed that he couldn't get some run.
OK, instead of rip the signing...And suggest players from when you wore diapers...who should the Bulls of signed?

They needed a back-up big and weren't going to spend money... I think we all agree so far. So if not Nazr, then who? And what does it really matter? Whether they sign a washed up vet for the min or an unproven rookie for the min, you're still getting garbage for garbage...
 

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No. Absent a trade, I thought you would have been at least satisfied with offseason plan B. Fill out the roster with short term deals so you can retool sooner rather than later.
I'm happy in one sense. If there is a philosophical departure from paying guys bloated deals in a vacuum or for external reasons like "reward contracts" to - OKAY, Derrick Rose is a guy you pay big years and money to; IF AND WHEN another guys comes along as a second star, you pay him, until then the deals are low money or low years, or preferably both, then yes, I'm happy. The next long term, big deal, and by big I mean anything above 3 years, 24 mill - should be for Rose's "Pippen."

Where I'm not happy is that there is still that Paxsonesque goal to yearn for competitiveness in these signings. Kirk Hirnich, Bellinelli, maybe Mohammed, have no long-term future here, but rather than go for boom or bust potential guys who wouldn't hurt you by busting and being gone in a year, they're going to have guys come in - guys who will carve out roles on this team. Then what? I'd have rather brought in four guys who would probably be nothing, but who might be sleepers, than guys who will never be better than average, but if they're average quickly, then we'll still need to replace their role.

I do not want them to pay Asik. In fact, I was in the low minority that wanted to trade him last summer for whatever we could get and pick up a cheap vet to replace him that at least could provide something offensively.
Agree here.

I was against them paying Chandler. I was also against them paying Gordon. I didn't like the Wallace signing, but didn't hate it. Same with the Boozer signing (we had to get someone to make a run the only offseason to do it). I also understand you feel that the Deng signing is what caused this so you opine that the (bad) Deng signing led to an (even worse) Boozer signing.
Just in the sense that people will say, "okay, you had to pay Boozer when Lebron didn't come, because the cap room would have run out with the Noah and Rose signing." If you had said to Deng, "3 years, 24 mill, take it or leave it," it's only great. Either he stays and you'd have had a chance to either say "hey, this guy is worth 72 mill" (very unlikely) or "we paid wisely, any deal needs to be a continuation of that" OR he leaves and you win 30 games and probably end up with a chance to take DeRozan after Rose's rookie year. Deng on a friendly deal or DeRozan on a rookie deal are better than Deng on his deal and it's not close.

Instead, we got a guy who is paid like a middle to lower-middle #2 and will just never deliver that. And then his "overpay" was what you'd have needed to subtract from the cap to say, "well, let's sign Boozer if he's really a catch to us. If not, no, we don't HAVE to sign anyone."

I still think Deng is fairly paid over the life of his contract.
Fair pay has nothing to do with effectively structuring your team to win a championship. The fact is, Noah is cool on his deal provided you have a #2.

If Deng's money was chopped up into the same dollars for a few guys we could have gotten out of, now you don't have to sign Boozer.

Between Boozer and Deng you will spend what, 28 million next year and neither is a #2.

So arguing "equity" is one thing. Arguing whether someone is paid in a championship friendly way is something completely different. You have freedom to get out of Deng, now you don't even HAVE to sign Boozer and you can say "oh, Deng isn't a #2, but Rose is a #1 and Noah is a defensive/good "3rd best guy", okay, let's get out of Deng and into something else - even if that something else is to sign guys we can perpetually get out of when the right guy does come open."

I also think Noah has a good contract relative to his value. I know we differ on both of those opinions.
I'd be hard-pressed to disagree on Noah, but the thing is, can you accurately justify Deng AND Noah together on their deals. Noah is good as your 3rd paid guy, with Rose as your #1. Now, pay Deng and Boozer as your guys between Rose and Noah and who is your #2 scorer on a title team? Who is your #2 overall star in a league where it's become strong enough that you need one?

Am I excited by the Nazr signing, no? I do like it better than Darko. I'm not going to get worked up either way about who we get on a one-year rental with the vet minimum. I'd be shocked if he averaged over 15 mpg for us.

Hinrich at the money is fine. I like the Belinelli signing and Teague was the guy I wanted once he dropped, so I liked both of those moves, albeit relatively unimpactful. Neither Hinrich or Belinelli will hurt the 2014 flexibility, and should be solid rotation guys both years.
At the end of the day maybe my frustration elsewhere boiled over here.

You're right, who we got for deals like this was almost irrelevant.

But I say that because the Bulls need to improve at the top of their roster, not on the bottom or in the middle.
 

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Good to hear that Rose most likely won't be back before March. Give him all the time in the world.

In the meantime give Teague the development minutes at backup PG. Mike James serves no purpose, this season is a wash.
 

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Even in the battle for 2 bad bigs, Miami gets the younger more talented bad big while we get the older and worst big of the two! YAY! Can anyone say GRANT PARK BABY?!
 

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I'm happy in one sense. If there is a philosophical departure from paying guys bloated deals in a vacuum or for external reasons like "reward contracts" to - OKAY, Derrick Rose is a guy you pay big years and money to; IF AND WHEN another guys comes along as a second star, you pay him, until then the deals are low money or low years, or preferably both, then yes, I'm happy. The next long term, big deal, and by big I mean anything above 3 years, 24 mill - should be for Rose's "Pippen."

Where I'm not happy is that there is still that Paxsonesque goal to yearn for competitiveness in these signings. Kirk Hirnich, Bellinelli, maybe Mohammed, have no long-term future here, but rather than go for boom or bust potential guys who wouldn't hurt you by busting and being gone in a year, they're going to have guys come in - guys who will carve out roles on this team. Then what? I'd have rather brought in four guys who would probably be nothing, but who might be sleepers, than guys who will never be better than average, but if they're average quickly, then we'll still need to replace their role.



Agree here.



Just in the sense that people will say, "okay, you had to pay Boozer when Lebron didn't come, because the cap room would have run out with the Noah and Rose signing." If you had said to Deng, "3 years, 24 mill, take it or leave it," it's only great. Either he stays and you'd have had a chance to either say "hey, this guy is worth 72 mill" (very unlikely) or "we paid wisely, any deal needs to be a continuation of that" OR he leaves and you win 30 games and probably end up with a chance to take DeRozan after Rose's rookie year. Deng on a friendly deal or DeRozan on a rookie deal are better than Deng on his deal and it's not close.

Instead, we got a guy who is paid like a middle to lower-middle #2 and will just never deliver that. And then his "overpay" was what you'd have needed to subtract from the cap to say, "well, let's sign Boozer if he's really a catch to us. If not, no, we don't HAVE to sign anyone."



Fair pay has nothing to do with effectively structuring your team to win a championship. The fact is, Noah is cool on his deal provided you have a #2.

If Deng's money was chopped up into the same dollars for a few guys we could have gotten out of, now you don't have to sign Boozer.

Between Boozer and Deng you will spend what, 28 million next year and neither is a #2.

So arguing "equity" is one thing. Arguing whether someone is paid in a championship friendly way is something completely different. You have freedom to get out of Deng, now you don't even HAVE to sign Boozer and you can say "oh, Deng isn't a #2, but Rose is a #1 and Noah is a defensive/good "3rd best guy", okay, let's get out of Deng and into something else - even if that something else is to sign guys we can perpetually get out of when the right guy does come open."



I'd be hard-pressed to disagree on Noah, but the thing is, can you accurately justify Deng AND Noah together on their deals. Noah is good as your 3rd paid guy, with Rose as your #1. Now, pay Deng and Boozer as your guys between Rose and Noah and who is your #2 scorer on a title team? Who is your #2 overall star in a league where it's become strong enough that you need one?



At the end of the day maybe my frustration elsewhere boiled over here.

You're right, who we got for deals like this was almost irrelevant.

But I say that because the Bulls need to improve at the top of their roster, not on the bottom or in the middle.
Good comments…as I said before 1M times, we are going nowhere with Deng’s contract.
It is a deadly ballast that needs to be removed…then Boozer’s.
 
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