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RUSH for Three says Owen
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Wayne Simien.

Congrats Wayne.
 

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Would of been, could of been, should of been julius hodge..... But no love there. Congrats though to wayne.... Hopefully he becomes a first round pick and suceeds on the next level...
 

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Except Wayne Simien had a much better season across the board than Warrick. And lets not pretend that Syracuse was really all that good in any of his seasons outside of the "Carmello" year.
 

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vadimivich said:
Except Wayne Simien had a much better season across the board than Warrick. And lets not pretend that Syracuse was really all that good in any of his seasons outside of the "Carmello" year.
Well Kansas really wasn't muxh better then Syracuse this year. While Hakim and Wayne both played there butts off, there teams were disappointing.

As for the much better season... when? It wasn't this year.

All the stats were close, with Hakim being slightly ahead in most of them.
Wayne did have a significant 2 more boards a game, partly because Hakim started playing alot of 3 once Edelin flamed out. It would have been closer, still a good edge for Simien.

But there is no evidence to support a much better season for Simien or Kansas (Syracuse won some sort of conference title as well)
 

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The Bilson = Jayhawk Love
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rooting for both team like I do, I'd say that SU and KU were about even this year. it was great to see Wayne win it.
 

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Let's put this in perspective. This is an award in honour of Shane Battier, selected by Dick Enberg. OH MY. I am not discussing this any more. Wayne & Hakim were the two best seniors in the country.
 

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JuniorNoboa said:
I would have went with a senior who has a national title .... like Hakim Warrick
Even though Simien is the better player?
 

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JuniorNoboa said:
All the stats were close, with Hakim being slightly ahead in most of them.
Wayne did have a significant 2 more boards a game, partly because Hakim started playing alot of 3 once Edelin flamed out. It would have been closer, still a good edge for Simien.
And what would Simien's stats been had he not played four or five games with a cast on his shooting hand?

But there is no evidence to support a much better season for Simien or Kansas (Syracuse won some sort of conference title as well)
Whoa! Don't just throw the argument out like that. Explore it. Let's do some objective analysis here, shall we?

Efficiency Rating: ((PTS + REB + AST + STL + BLK) - ((FGA - FGM) + (FTA - FTM) + TO)) / G

Simien: +24.42 (882-247/26 games)
Warrick: +21.64 (1130-394/34 games)

EFF doesn't factor in minutes per game. If it did, the gap would be even higher, as Simien did more things in 3.3 fewer minutes per game than did Warrick.

2. Kansas technically shared the Big XII title with Oklahoma this year.
 

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Efficiency is not a great measure. Let's close the gap.

1. Efficiency stat fails to adequately measure players who get to the line alot like Hakim and shoot a decent but not good ft%.

2. Efficiency overrates rebounders (i.e 4 and 5's) especially if they are the top option on a team. Of course Simien will have more rebounds then a bottom-wing player in the 2-3 zone.

I am not willing to concede that Simien was better then Warrick. I am willing to say they were the best two seniors. If you want to argue more, go ahead. I am no longer going to discuss the point.
 

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JuniorNoboa said:
Efficiency is not a great measure. Let's close the gap.

1. Efficiency stat fails to adequately measure players who get to the line alot like Hakim and shoot a decent but not good ft%.
Good call.

Simien averages one made FT every 6.28 minutes, good for 5.5 made FT's per game. Warrick averages one made FT every 6.04 minutes, good for 6.2 made FT's per game. There is a difference, but it's not very significant (0.7 ppg).

2. Efficiency overrates rebounders (i.e 4 and 5's) especially if they are the top option on a team. Of course Simien will have more rebounds then a bottom-wing player in the 2-3 zone.
Sure...but doesn't this make Simien more valuable to his team?

I am not willing to concede that Simien was better then Warrick. I am willing to say they were the best two seniors. If you want to argue more, go ahead. I am no longer going to discuss the point.
Why don't you want to discuss any further? Talk about not wanting to investigate a topic...damn.
 

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A statistical argument cannot be made for Warrick, even if its close.

My original argument was to Vadimivich's argument that accross the board Simien was MUCH better then Warrick. I don't agree with the MUCH.
 

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JuniorNoboa said:
A statistical argument cannot be made for Warrick, even if its close.

My original argument was to Vadimivich's argument that accross the board Simien was MUCH better then Warrick. I don't agree with the MUCH.
And your second argument was this:

"I don't think Simien is a better player. There about even."
 

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RUSH for Three says Owen
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Discussion Starter #19
here is my perspective.

Do not take this the wrong way.

Junior your are a syracuse fan. Vega you are a KU fan. I may see bias. Heck, I am being biased all the time. I admit it. It is nothgin new. Everyone knows I am biased towards Kansas.

As head to head, Warrick has the edge but that was when both were sophmores.
 
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