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I think it's arguable. I would rank players like this (no order), in tiers:

1st tier: Wilt Chamberlain, Michael Jordan, Oscar Robertson
2nd tier: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Russell
3rd tier: Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Shaquille O'Neal
4th tier: Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Hakeem Olajuwon, Karl Malone


I don't see why it should be automatically assumed that Magic and Larry are both better than Shaq. Maybe, but I think we tend to hold old players up as being better than they really were. I think it's arguable that Shaq was/is better than those two, but not the 5 above him.

edit: forgot Hakeem.
 

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Pan Mengtu said:
I think it's arguable. I would rank players like this (no order), in tiers:

1st tier: Wilt Chamberlain, Michael Jordan, Oscar Robertson
2nd tier: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Russell
3rd tier: Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Shaquille O'Neal
4th tier: Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Karl Malone


I don't see why it should be automatically assumed that Magic and Larry are both better than Shaq. Maybe, but I think we tend to hold old players up as being better than they really were. I think it's arguable that Shaq was/is better than those two, but not the 5 above him.
did you forget hakeem the Dream?? You better, or you have no knowledge of basketball
 
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Discussion Starter #4
farhan007 said:
did you forget hakeem the Dream?? You better, or you have no knowledge of basketball
Yeah, I did. I would put him in the 4th tier with Duncan, Malone, Garnett. But unless you think he belongs with Shaq, Magic, and Larry Bird, that's really not important.
 

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Pan Mengtu said:
Yeah, I did. I would put him in the 4th tier with Duncan, Malone, Garnett. But unless you think he belongs with Shaq, Magic, and Larry Bird, that's really not important.
you would put dream with Duncan andGarnett... EVEN MOLONE!!!! DREAM WON RINGS!!!! He belongs in the first or second tier
 

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I agree that Bird and Magic tend to be held higher because of their magical rivalry in the 80's, which many consider to be a golden era. I think Shaq may have passed them.

I agree with your tier's almost entirely, Oscar doesn't belong in the 1st tier in my opinion. Garnett doesn't belong in the 4th tier yet, though he'll probably end up there by the end of his career.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
farhan007 said:
you would put dream with Duncan andGarnett... EVEN MOLONE!!!! DREAM WON RINGS!!!! He belongs in the first or second tier
I disagree, but this thread isn't about a list of the best players, or Hakeem, so it's not important. This is just about where Shaq belongs on the list.
 

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Hakeem really should be right behind Shaq at this point and slightly ahead of Duncan.

He though should not be put on the same tier at Malone and KG. He was IMO a clearly better player then both
 
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Discussion Starter #13
Pioneer10 said:
Hakeem really should be right behind Shaq at this point and slightly ahead of Duncan.

He though should not be put on the same tier at Malone and KG. He was IMO a clearly better player then both
I disagree, and think he's very overrated by many people. I think he was probably better than all three that I put in the same tier during his prime, but over the stretch of the entire career I definitely don't think so. His PER was never that great, worse than all three of the others. I think he's right on the level of the three I put him with, because he was better in his prime, but probably worse the other times.

But I don't see how you could say he was as good as Shaq, Magic, Larry. Hakeem fell apart around the time he hit the age Shaq is right now. And Shaq is a frontrunner MVP candidate. Shaq was always a better scorer.
 

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LBJthefuturegoat said:
IV so much hate for Shaq I bet you used to love the guy.
I still love him, I don't think he's the 6th best player in NBA history. He's a far cry from it.
 

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Your tiers seem just about right, but you can even make a case for Shaq being in the second tier and moving Oscar down one tier.

IMO, 1 and 2 is set in stone, MJ and Wilt.

3-8 can be argued for either of those players you listed, making Shaq a possible #3.:eek8:
 

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Pan Mengtu said:
So where would you rank him, with who?
If I ranked the top 10 centers of all time, Shaq is in the 5-7 range. :twocents: So I couldn't begin to think he's top 6 all time.

I believe that Wilt, Bill Russell, Kareem, and Olajuwan were better cneters than Shaq. & arguably David Robinson(this may be a biased pick because he's one of my all time favs, but he was a better all around center). I think this mostly because Shaq never plays defense, so he'd have a terrible time having to match up against another great center. When there were other great centers in the league, Shaq was great but he wasn't any better than they were, only until now has he reached the status he has. It's all in the absence of other great big men, so I have a hard time ranking him as high as 6th all time.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
HallOfFamer said:
Your tiers seem just about right, but you can even make a case for Shaq being in the second tier and moving Oscar down one tier.

IMO, 1 and 2 is set in stone, MJ and Wilt.

3-8 can be argued for either of those players you listed, making Shaq a possible #3.:eek8:
To me, Oscar definitely belongs in with Wilt and Michael. The reason Wilt is regarded so highly is because of his gawdy numbers; but Oscar had gawdy numbers as well. I think Oscar belongs with them because I can think of a case for one being better than at least one other. You can make the case for Michael being better than both based on the eras argument. You can make the case for Wilt being better than the other two based on his stats. And I think you can make the case for Oscar being better than Michael based on his stats (though I don't think you can make the case for Oscar being better than Wilt, because they were in the same era and Wilt's stats were better).
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I also have a hard time putting Shaq in with Russell and Kareem. Just because of how dominant of a defender Russell was, and how dominate of an all-around player Kareem was. I don't think Shaq's that dominate, though he likes to say he is. He still has to work for his points, while it seems like Kareem didn't have to (in the 70s).
 

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Discussion Starter #19
IV said:
If I ranked the top 10 centers of all time, Shaq is in the 5-7 range. :twocents: So I couldn't begin to think he's top 6 all time.

I believe that Wilt, Bill Russell, Kareem, and Olajuwan were better cneters than Shaq. & arguably David Robinson(this may be a biased pick because he's one of my all time favs, but he was a better all around center). I think this mostly because Shaq never plays defense, so he'd have a terrible time having to match up against another great center. When there were other great centers in the league, Shaq was great but he wasn't any better than they were, only until now has he reached the status he has. It's all in the absence of other great big men, so I have a hard time ranking him as high as 6th all time.
Shaq played defense when he was younger very well, just not since he's been older. But the same is true for Kareem, he became a bad defender in his final days as well.
 

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Pan Mengtu said:
I also have a hard time putting Shaq in with Russell and Kareem. Just because of how dominant of a defender Russell was, and how dominate of an all-around player Kareem was. I don't think Shaq's that dominate, though he likes to say he is. He still has to work for his points, while it seems like Kareem didn't have to (in the 70s).
:yes:

See most fans will think your just hatin on Shaq because you don't repeat what ever one else thinks, but this is true. There have been better all around centers, that could dominate more than just the paint on the court. Now, when it comes to dominating the paint, Shaq is the man, but outside of that area, there have been better players.
 
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