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Schilster Supreme
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok I went back and looked at how these 2 have faired against sheed this season. Each team has played Portland 2 times.

Garnett
27pts/10rebs/9ast
26pts/14rebs/2ast

Average
26.5pts 12rebs 5.5asts
Season average
24.7pts 14.2rebs 5.1asts

Duncan
26pts/10rebs/3asts
18pts/14rebs/3asts

Average
22ppg 12rpg 3 apg
Season Average
22ppg 12.8rpg 3apg

We hold both players under their season averages in rebounds.
Duncan remains average in scoring and assists.
Garnett is scoring higher than his season average it right close to his APG average.
 

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I'm curious, what did Sheed do offensively against those two great PF's? Do you have that information? Same format?
 

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That's mostly single coverage.

Have a PF like Zach guard either one single coverage an entire game and both go for 50+.
 

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Schilster Supreme
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Originally posted by <b>Masbee</b>!
That's mostly single coverage.

Have a PF like Zach guard either one single coverage an entire game and both go for 50+.
If that's the case then Sheed is average if not slightly worse than the other PF's in the league defensively.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!

If that's the case then Sheed is average if not slightly worse than the other PF's in the league defensively.
You'd be right if the other PFs in the league covered Duncan and Garnett one-on-on. They don't.

Because almost every team doubles KG and Duncan, and Portland rarely does with Rasheed in the game, the fact that those guys get good numbers against him doesn't mean he's average or worse.

It doesn't NECESSARILY mean that he's above-average, either, although common sense would dictate that the team is better off not double-teaming than they are if they were double-teaming.

Ed O.
 

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Schilster Supreme
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Originally posted by <b>The Professional Fan</b>!
I'm curious, what did Sheed do offensively against those two great PF's? Do you have that information? Same format?
More than likely Sheed was not defended by those 2 as they were guarding Zach but here is what he went for

18pts/6rebs/3asts
14pts/9rebs/2asts
23pts/6rebs/1ast
8pts/2rebs/0asts

Average
15.75ppg/5.75rpg/1.5apg

Season Average
16.8PPG 6.6RPG 2.7APG

His numbers are dragged way down by the recent Minnesota game when he only played 26 minutes.(18/7/2 without that game)
 

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Schilster Supreme
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!


You'd be right if the other PFs in the league covered Duncan and Garnett one-on-on. They don't.


Ed O.
That actually was kind of my point. I didn't think that saying they would score 50 every tiome with Zach as the Primary 4 was accurate.
 

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mere fan
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It seems that the premise of this thread is that these were stats Duncan/KG accumulated vs Sheed. Are posters really not aware that defensive switches happen throughout games (sometimes several times during one single possession), and there are times when players aren't even in the game at the same time??? That this Blazers team plays zone for much of the game? When they do play strait up, Mo will often keep Sheed off of the other team's primary offensive frontcourt weapon in the first half to keep him out of foul trouble for when the 4th comes around. These stats were accumulated vs Portland not solely Wallace.

If you're coming to conclutions based on this ridiculous premise, you're entitled to your opinion(s) and all, but I think you're being pretty silly and probably just looking for another reason to bash Wallace. If listening to coaches and players praise his defensive abilities doesn't convince you that he's an above average defender, watch what happens when he sits down.

STOMP
 

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Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!

That actually was kind of my point. I didn't think that saying they would score 50 every tiome with Zach as the Primary 4 was accurate.
What does that have to do with making Rasheed an average or below-average 4?

I'm not trying to be feisty... I'm just confused how ZR's poor defense would affect Rasheed's abilities in your eyes.

Sorry if I'm missing something...

Ed O.
 

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Schilster Supreme
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!


What does that have to do with making Rasheed an average or below-average 4?

I'm not trying to be feisty... I'm just confused how ZR's poor defense would affect Rasheed's abilities in your eyes.

Sorry if I'm missing something...

Ed O.
It was in response to this statement. ANd really was a bit of veiled sarcasm as I do feel Sheed is above average, and Zach is definately below average.

That's mostly single coverage.

Have a PF like Zach guard either one single coverage an entire game and both go for 50+.
Made by Masbee.

I am not really Sheed bashing just pointing out that he hasn't been the "Stopper" everyone claims he is.

Also we can come up with a million observations to prove our own points or to disprove others. I just thought those particular stat lines may be interesting to some people.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!

Also we can come up with a million observations to prove our own points or to disprove others. I just thought those particular stat lines may be interesting to some people.
No... I am not complaining about the stats (I find them interesting, if not conclusive). I am confused about this exchange:

Originally posted by Masbee!
That's mostly single coverage.

Have a PF like Zach guard either one single coverage an entire game and both go for 50+.
If that's the case then Sheed is average if not slightly worse than the other PF's in the league defensively.
Did you mean "... then Zach Randolph is average if not slightly worse..." ? 'Cause I just don't see how you can mean Rasheed based on what Masbee wrote...

:confused:

Ed O.
 

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Schilster Supreme
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!


No... I am not complaining about the stats (I find them interesting, if not conclusive). I am confused about this exchange:

Did you mean "... then Zach Randolph is average if not slightly worse..." ? 'Cause I just don't see how you can mean Rasheed based on what Masbee wrote...

:confused:

Ed O.
Ohh I see the confusion. I meant Sheed but mut maybe it shouldn't have been connected to the Zach statement. I see exactly what you mean. Actually I can't recall what the thought was behind my statement, but I know at the time I had something in mind. I think it was based on the single coverage aspect.

Ehh I give up I can't remember.
 

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Actually in both games against Minnesota (particularly in the first) Randolph defended Garnett for the majority of the games.

In the first game Rasheed held Garnett to 0 points and 0 rebounds while guarding him exclusively in the second quarter (coincidentally the quarter in which the game was won).

I would not base this seasons PF scoring as an indication of Rasheed's defensive abilities because that does not factor in time spent operating against Randolph by those players.

Documenting the production of both Duncan and Garnett vs. Wallace in season’s prior would be a better indication.
 

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all this tells me is sheed is an average defender. therefore you could definitely rule out the myth that he is a great defender. He used to be better when he was more hungry when he was younger, but as he is the last 3 yrs he's just going through the motions and collecting a paycheck.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Tommyboy</b>!
all this tells me is sheed is an average defender. therefore you could definitely rule out the myth that he is a great defender.
How does the fact that he gives up average numbers to the top players in the game in spite of not getting double team help tell you he is an average defender?

I don't understand how that's a logical conclusion.

Ed O.
 

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if he was a great defender like he used to be he would hold those guys under their avg's like he used to. go back and look at previous years stats for sheed vs those guys, you'll see.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Tommyboy</b>!
if he was a great defender like he used to be he would hold those guys under their avg's like he used to.
But those guys attain their "averages" against nightly double-teams. If you hold them to their averages without double-team help, then you're well above average...you're doing a two-man job single-handedly.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Tommyboy</b>!
if he was a great defender like he used to be he would hold those guys under their avg's like he used to. go back and look at previous years stats for sheed vs those guys, you'll see.
The difference now in comparison to then is that Rasheed now shares the defensive responsibility with the invisible defender (Randolph).

If in the span of one game Duncan goes something to the effect of 4-6 (throw in a couple of free throws) against Randolph for 10 of his total points that distorts whatever Rasheed’s defensive contribution may have been.

P.S. In two contests vs. the Spurs this season Rasheed has recorded a total of 7 blocked shots (3.5 per game) and in two games against Portland Duncan has shot 43% from the field (that is his second lowest FG% against, behind only Houston for teams player more then once this season, 4th lowest overall).
 

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Originally posted by <b>The Enigma</b>!
The difference now in comparison to then is that Rasheed now shares the defensive responsibility with the invisible defender (Randolph)...
...as opposed to sharing it with one of the all time dominant defensive players in Pippen plus Brian Grant and his six fouls and man mountain Sabas. Dale has clearly been hobbled throughout this whole season, and there are zero backups along the frontline. Going through the motions??? How about busting his butt 38 minutes nightly. I honestly don't know how I can be watching the same games as some of the posters making these statements, or how any Blazer fan could have a problem with Wallace's effort on the defensive end unless they are just lashing out because of the losses.

It's no myth that this is a team game.

STOMP
 

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Last Season Duncan averaged 18 Points (FG% 42) and 11 Rebounds in four Games against the Blazers.
Garnett played once against Randolph last Season (during Wallace suspension), and he scored 31 Points (11/16!! FGs) and 20 Rebounds.
 
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