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Discussion Starter #1
I've never been a big fan of Skiles as our coach, but after a 47 win season last year, I even gave up the fire skiles club in my signature...

This season is actually progressing pretty much as I expected. We had no draft picks. The pickups of Songaila and Malik Allen are pretty much worthless. Gordon is a terrific player, but for us to expect him to rescue the team in 20+ games every season is a super high expectation; if he does it 10 times for us this year, he's still terrific but we're a 37 win team.

But this thread is about Skiles.

Watching the Portland game last night, especially at the end of the game, I was just blown away by how bad a coach he is in those situations. I even commented to my wife that it was pretty obvious he's no Phil Jackson and that PJax would have managed the offense/defense substitutions and the clock to get a win out of that game.

Think about this. WHY in the world, after a timeout of all things, would Hinrich take (and make) a shot with 15.7 seconds left on the clock? Yeah, it gave the bulls a lead, but it gave Portland 15.7 seconds to win the game. Was gordon even on the court? The bulls may have lost the game, but they still should have run the clock out and tried for a Ben miracle or any other good shot by any player on the court.

Skiles' starting lineup is a joke. It'd be nice to see this talented group of players actually take 9 point leads into the 2nd quarter on a regular basis - and I do think it's possible. It's DaBullz' view of "the right way."

We have a thread asking if Gordon can dunk. The guy can jump out of the gym, is lightning quick, and was a ferocious dunker in college. Oh yeah, he was a winner in college, too. But we have him pegged as a 3pt specialist. Seems to me we're wasting him.

In spite of what some people may think, I actually like Hinrich. I don't think he's the heart and sole of a winning team. But we're featuring the guy for some strange reason. Look at the starting lineup - it's him and nocioni as the only two guys who aren't offensively challenged; designed to get him points and pump up his stats. The cost is the lack of those 9 pt leads going into Q2s of games.

It's pounding square pegs into round holes. We're not letting our most talented players use their talents to their fullest. It's not the "right way" somehow to play like JRich did the other night against us, but it sure is effective. And a lot of fun to watch to boot.

Sweetney is turning out to be everything I expected with on exception. He's getting 20 minutes a game instead of 35 minutes a game. Play his fat *** until he can't run anymore and give him a quick breather. The guy sure looks more gifted in the post than Eddy Curry every did to my eyes.

You have to try and get something out of Tim Thomas. He's got AD's roster spot, and that now represents a giant step backward for the team. If you want a 3pt shooting specialist, there's the guy.

Circus trip, shmircus trip. We're on the road for 5 games. I heard the Portland announcers say that the Blazers were about to go on a 7 game road trip. :boohoo:

The bottom line is that if we're going to lose games, I'd prefer that it's with an actual purpose besides burning a season waiting for Cap Space to kick in. Feature Gordon and Deng and let's see what they have. Run plays for them and Sweetney.

Or start the darn games with 3 guards and play them the whole game. It worked for us last season terrifically.
 

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I think that Bulls, fans especially after last season, would know that 6 games is a little to early to start burning the Skiles effigy.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
TripleDouble said:
I think that Bulls, fans especially after last season, would know that 6 games is a little to early to start burning the Skiles effigy.
I'm not burning the Skiles effigy at all. Every issue I raised in my post are things that can be addressed, and he's probably smart enough to figure it out on his own.
 

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DaBullz said:
I've never been a big fan of Skiles as our coach, but after a 47 win season last year, I even gave up the fire skiles club in my signature...

This season is actually progressing pretty much as I expected. We had no draft picks. The pickups of Songaila and Malik Allen are pretty much worthless. Gordon is a terrific player, but for us to expect him to rescue the team in 20+ games every season is a super high expectation; if he does it 10 times for us this year, he's still terrific but we're a 37 win team.

But this thread is about Skiles.

Watching the Portland game last night, especially at the end of the game, I was just blown away by how bad a coach he is in those situations. I even commented to my wife that it was pretty obvious he's no Phil Jackson and that PJax would have managed the offense/defense substitutions and the clock to get a win out of that game.

Think about this. WHY in the world, after a timeout of all things, would Hinrich take (and make) a shot with 15.7 seconds left on the clock? Yeah, it gave the bulls a lead, but it gave Portland 15.7 seconds to win the game. Was gordon even on the court? The bulls may have lost the game, but they still should have run the clock out and tried for a Ben miracle or any other good shot by any player on the court.

Skiles' starting lineup is a joke. It'd be nice to see this talented group of players actually take 9 point leads into the 2nd quarter on a regular basis - and I do think it's possible. It's DaBullz' view of "the right way."

We have a thread asking if Gordon can dunk. The guy can jump out of the gym, is lightning quick, and was a ferocious dunker in college. Oh yeah, he was a winner in college, too. But we have him pegged as a 3pt specialist. Seems to me we're wasting him.

In spite of what some people may think, I actually like Hinrich. I don't think he's the heart and sole of a winning team. But we're featuring the guy for some strange reason. Look at the starting lineup - it's him and nocioni as the only two guys who aren't offensively challenged; designed to get him points and pump up his stats. The cost is the lack of those 9 pt leads going into Q2s of games.

It's pounding square pegs into round holes. We're not letting our most talented players use their talents to their fullest. It's not the "right way" somehow to play like JRich did the other night against us, but it sure is effective. And a lot of fun to watch to boot.

Sweetney is turning out to be everything I expected with on exception. He's getting 20 minutes a game instead of 35 minutes a game. Play his fat *** until he can't run anymore and give him a quick breather. The guy sure looks more gifted in the post than Eddy Curry every did to my eyes.

You have to try and get something out of Tim Thomas. He's got AD's roster spot, and that now represents a giant step backward for the team. If you want a 3pt shooting specialist, there's the guy.

Circus trip, shmircus trip. We're on the road for 5 games. I heard the Portland announcers say that the Blazers were about to go on a 7 game road trip. :boohoo:

The bottom line is that if we're going to lose games, I'd prefer that it's with an actual purpose besides burning a season waiting for Cap Space to kick in. Feature Gordon and Deng and let's see what they have. Run plays for them and Sweetney.

Or start the darn games with 3 guards and play them the whole game. It worked for us last season terrifically.
I couldn't agree with you more.
 

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Darius Miles Davis said:
After losing a huge talent in Curry, this team definitely needs a lot of Deng and Gordon on the court. That Skiles has lukewarm commitment to these two is perplexing.
Not really. Gordon is getting burned left and right by anyone he guards, and he compounds that with bad fouls and dumb turnovers. He's really the anti-Skiles player.
 

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Frankensteiner said:
Not really. Gordon is getting burned left and right by anyone he guards, and he compounds that with bad fouls and dumb turnovers. He's really the anti-Skiles player.
U clearly seem to have something against BG. Getting burned left and right? Uhh....what game are u watching. BG's D for the most part has been just fine this season and he wasn't the only one committing dumb turnovers and bad fouls last night(although mentioning something negative abt Kirk is the last thing u'd probably do). Regarding Ben being the "anti-Skiles" player, heck, then so is more the half the roster. Bad fouls and dumb turnovers is something we've seen in abundance this season and last year too.

BG isn't a threat to golden boy Kirk. Every post u make doesn't have to be abt how much he sucks.
 

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SPMJ said:
U clearly seem to have something against BG. Getting burned left and right? Uhh....what game are u watching. BG's D for the most part has been just fine this season and he wasn't the only one committing dumb turnovers and bad fouls last night(although mentioning something negative abt Kirk is the last thing u'd probably do). Regarding Ben being the "anti-Skiles" player, heck, then so is more the half the roster. Bad fouls and dumb turnovers is something we've seen in abundance this season and last year too.

BG isn't a threat to golden boy Kirk. Every post u make doesn't have to be abt how much he sucks.
I don't know what to tell you. Sorry, I guess. I'll C&P k4e's evalutation from another thread which is pretty much spot-on, meaning I'm not the only person here with that opinion:

Skiles can't stand players that make stupid decisions while on the court. (i.e. pass sailing over wide open nocioni head)

Also, Skiles can't stand players that are not busting their tail on D.

Jack 3-5 shooting, Dixon 5-10 shooting, Telfair basically high-stepping sweetness style into our lane whenever he wants.

0 assists, 2 turnovers and 3 fouls for Gordon in 21 minutes last night. These types of things will keep him on the bench.
 

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Gordon, Sweets, and Deng have definitly got to be the focus of the offense(kirk will get his). Deng is not getting enough post up oprotunities or midrange jumpers, which is where he dominated in college. Too many of Deng's shots are coming from the outside where is he just average.

Gordon has to start bringing the ball all the way to the basket. The way he keeps throwing up floaters and not getting to the line is reminding me a lot of Crawford. Also what is up with his cross court passing, he gets a turnover almost every game doing it, swing the ball or shoot it with a man in your face just stop throwing it cross court.

Songaila has got to be removed from the starting lineup, he has produced absolutley nothing. I would like to see Deng and Noce start but I would rather TT or Othella start ahead of him as well. When Sweets can play 6+ more minutes effectivily I don't think there is any question he is the best compliment to Tyson, but he needs a little more conditioning maybe 10-15 more games. I think coming to the Bulls may be the best thing that ever happened to Sweetney, I can see him getting in the best shape of his life having the teammates and coach that he does.

Portland is realy the first bad team we have lost to, and we only lost by 1 on their court. I stand by Skiles and the job he is doing. 3-4 with one loss in overtime and 2 losses by 1 point is nothing to get down over, we are still competing every night, even on our bad nights.
 

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Hustle said:
Portland is realy the first bad team we have lost to, and we only lost by 1 on their court. I stand by Skiles and the job he is doing. 3-4 with one loss in overtime and 2 losses by 1 point is nothing to get down over, we are still competing every night, even on our bad nights.
I agree, but on the bright side, I think it's encouraging that 3-4 is cause for concern. In past seasons (even last year!), being 3-4 after 7 games would have been cause to start printing playoff tickets and go on a jubilant bender. We've had 2 straight disappointing games though - hopefully we'll get things straightened out.
 

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great post dabullz.

skiles' lineup drives me crazy. skiles is a stubborn [edit]; i think we all knew that from the get-go. there's a reason why every other team in the nba starts their best players. it's common sense, scott.

i was laughing my head off reading some of the comments praising duhon as some sort of team savior during the past few days. the guy is a solid back-up pg, nothing more. yes.. he doesnt' commit many turnovers, but uh.. y'all do realize that horrendous shooting = turnovers!!! he's solid, but ultimately duhon has very little effect on the team's win-loss record.

scott: stop being a stubborn douche and please start gordon, deng, & sweetney. teams need offense to win. stop [edit] ignoring half of the game.
 

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Frankensteiner said:
Not really. Gordon is getting burned left and right by anyone he guards
um.. this just isn't true.
gordon has been pigeon-holed as a bad defensive player, and unfortunately will have a hard time shaking that attatchment. truth is that he hasn't been bad on the defensive end. i've personally seen much improvement in his d.. he's able to stay in front of his man much better, and he's hustling a lot more. don't get me wrong, he's not all-nba defender, but i don't think he's as bad as some make him out to be.
 

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DaBullz said:
I've never been a big fan of Skiles as our coach, but after a 47 win season last year, I even gave up the fire skiles club in my signature...
If a 47 win season made you take down the fire skiles club, then why is the fire paxson club still up. Both are absurd, btw.







Think about this. WHY in the world, after a timeout of all things, would Hinrich take (and make) a shot with 15.7 seconds left on the clock? Yeah, it gave the bulls a lead, but it gave Portland 15.7 seconds to win the game. Was gordon even on the court? The bulls may have lost the game, but they still should have run the clock out and tried for a Ben miracle or any other good shot by any player on the court.
Bad strategy. Take the best shot you can get without the pressure of the game clock running down. If you miss, you still get a chance at the win or the tie on the next possesion.

Skiles' starting lineup is a joke. It'd be nice to see this talented group of players actually take 9 point leads into the 2nd quarter on a regular basis - and I do think it's possible.
I agree. Songalia should not be starting.

We have a thread asking if Gordon can dunk. The guy can jump out of the gym, is lightning quick, and was a ferocious dunker in college. Oh yeah, he was a winner in college, too. But we have him pegged as a 3pt specialist. Seems to me we're wasting him.
Gordon has been shooting from the outside and attacking the basket. He has a nice balance to his game. A floater and a dunk both equal two points. He's not gonna dunk on anyone, sorry. Skiles gives Ben a ton of freedom on offense. It's defense that gives him the short leash. Unfairly, IMO.





Sweetney is turning out to be everything I expected with on exception. He's getting 20 minutes a game instead of 35 minutes a game. Play his fat *** until he can't run anymore and give him a quick breather. The guy sure looks more gifted in the post than Eddy Curry every did to my eyes.
Foul trouble keeps Sweetney off the floor. While very good, Sweetney isn't as good as Curry is offensively in the post.

You have to try and get something out of Tim Thomas. He's got AD's roster spot, and that now represents a giant step backward for the team. If you want a 3pt shooting specialist, there's the guy.
I agree.
 

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Not a bad thread starter, Dabullz. You make some valid points.

I'm not sure what to expect from here on out, but judging from last season I'm hopeful that our better part of the season is still on the horizon.

In terms on the starting lineup, things obviously need to change. I'd like this change to take effect immediately, starting tonight in Seattle. Foul trouble or not, I think it's time to start Sweetney. I was willing to give Songaila another chance, but he's out of his comfort zone right now. Time for him to take a step back and get back on track. Secondly, let Luol Deng start over Nocioni. The team is more well-rounded with Deng out there; Noch is best suited as an energy guy off the bench. The Duhon/Hinrich backcourt should be fine; let Gordon grab 28-30 minutes as our 6th man stud.

Now, I'm not ready to say this will fix things. It's up to the players to get themselves on track. Gordon and Chandler both need to play better, in particular; both have been underwhelming and it's hurt big time.

Starting lineup:

Duhon, Hinrich, Deng, Sweetney, Chandler

Bench minutes, in this order:

Gordon, Nocioni, Basden (time to let him play), Othella, Songaila, Pargo
 

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Skiles' rotations have seemed a bit loopy at times, but to be fair, I remember during the beginning of last season, this board was calling for his head during our craptacular start because of the same reason. And as we know, he was just trying out different lineups, to figure out what worked.

Although it's not as drastic, I think he's doing something similar right now. Since we have a re-designed frontcourt, it's forcing a lot of our players that we had last season to play in a different way than they're used to, and hence, a little bit of experimentation might be necessary to find the best possible combinations to use on the floor. And considering that last year, Skiles did as good of a job of managing the talent he was given and putting them in a position to succeed as any coach in the NBA, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt..........for now.
 
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