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http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page ... st-chatter

Read a tweet earlier this week from a certain Boston fan at our place urging his Celts to scrap any notion of dealing away Ray Allen unless they're getting Sacramento's Martin, Philadelphia's Iguodala, Golden State's Monta Ellis or Chicago's Luol Deng in return.

Amid growing skepticism that the Celts can actually move Allen and his $19.7 million contract before the deadline -- even though there's little dispute that they've explored the possibility -- let's go ahead anyway and add these thoughts to the latter two targets since we've already discussed Martin and Iguodala.

Ellis: As with Miller in Portland, rival teams refuse to believe that Ellis can't be pried away from the Warriors, since he's ringing up all those points in a too-small backcourt with prized rookie Stephen Curry.

The Warriors, though, are adamant that there was never a shred of validity to the recent report out of Boston suggesting that a deal featuring Allen and Ellis was a legit possibility.

The safest assumption at this point? As mentioned earlier this season when the prospect of Golden State trading young Anthony Randolph was raised, teams would almost certainly have to be willing to absorb the contract of Corey Maggette (with nearly $31 million left on that deal over the next three seasons) to get an Ellis conversation started.

Deng: Sources with knowledge of the Bulls' thinking say he's not available, even with Chicago determined to shed at least one more long-term contract to increase its salary-cap space for a summertime run at Dwyane Wade or Chris Bosh.

Word is that the Bulls' preference remains trying to move guards Kirk Hinrich and John Salmons, hoping that they can keep the versatile Deng to complement a marquee free-agent addition and the increasingly free-scoring Derrick Rose.

Harder to read are the Lakers' true intentions. They're frequently mentioned as a prime suitor for Hinrich, but there are also regular rumblings that L.A.'s primary goal at the deadline is reducing payroll by persisting with recent attempts to move Sasha Vujacic or Luke Walton. Hinrich has two seasons left on his contract after this season valued at $17 million.
So its not either or, but both Hinrich and Salmons.
 

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I don't think we should trade Deng... doesn't seem like we'll have to given what our payroll will look like, and we'll need some talent outside of Rose to pair with anyone we can land in free agency or we'll just be treading water.
 

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I don't think we should trade Deng... doesn't seem like we'll have to given what our payroll will look like, and we'll need some talent outside of Rose to pair with anyone we can land in free agency or we'll just be treading water.
You only trade Deng if you have already traded Hinrich, as that would allow you to sign 2 max free agents.

If they trade Salmons, they shouldn't trade Hinrich, and if they trade Hinrich, they shouldn't trade Salmons imo.
 

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If we somehow find a way to trade both Hinrich and Salmons there would really be no reason to trade Deng, the free agent class looks like at the most maybe ONE FA will get the max contract (Bosh hints towards staying,Wade looks to maybe be staying,Lebron is not going anywhere) like Joe Johnson, Amare is not a max guy, Boozer is not a max guy, Gay is not a max guy, Lee etc.
 

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If we somehow find a way to trade both Hinrich and Salmons there would really be no reason to trade Deng, the free agent class looks like at the most maybe ONE FA will get the max contract (Bosh hints towards staying,Wade looks to maybe be staying,Lebron is not going anywhere) like Joe Johnson, Amare is not a max guy, Boozer is not a max guy, Gay is not a max guy, Lee etc.
Not sure why you are so confident they are staying... Do you have quotes from them?
 

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Not sure why you are so confident they are staying... Do you have quotes from them?
According to bleacher reports Amare picked up his option for 2010 meaning he will not be a Free Agent, the site say's this is great news for Bosh who will demand a huge amount of money, seeing that nobody can pay Bosh as much as Toronto I just assumed that Bosh will work out a a gigantic contract with Toronto. Unless a sign and trade is made or he flat out demands a trade this season I dont see Bosh turning down more money to go play somewhere else.

However, due to Stoudemire remaining with the Suns, Bosh will get one of the bigger contracts in free agency, probably being the second highest after LeBron James.

Why? Simply because Bosh is now the only star-caliber forward that is worth the price.
 

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According to bleacher reports Amare picked up his option for 2010 meaning he will not be a Free Agent, the site say's this is great news for Bosh who will demand a huge amount of money, seeing that nobody can pay Bosh as much as Toronto I just assumed that Bosh will work out a a gigantic contract with Toronto. Unless a sign and trade is made or he flat out demands a trade this season I dont see Bosh turning down more money to go play somewhere else.
So none of these guys have said anything that would make any of us believe they are staying? With the exception of Amare who has said he might pick up his player option.
Then why would we assume they are staying?
If they wanted to stay why have they not accepted lucrative contract extensions? (you know guys like lebron, Bosh and Wade have received them)

My feeling is that it makes sense for almost all of these guys to leave except for Amare. Amare is the one who has a player option for more than the max and would most likeley not get a max contract from anyone anyways.
 

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So none of these guys have said anything that would make any of us believe they are staying? With the exception of Amare who has said he might pick up his player option.
Then why would we assume they are staying?
If they wanted to stay why have they not accepted lucrative contract extensions? (you know guys like lebron, Bosh and Wade have received them)

My feeling is that it makes sense for almost all of these guys to leave except for Amare. Amare is the one who has a player option for more than the max and would most likeley not get a max contract from anyone anyways.
How does it make sense for Bosh and Lebron to leave?

Both will make much more money if they stay put, if they decided to do sign and trades they will be going to depleted teams, if they sign as Free Agents they will leave money on the table and you know NBA players money comes first. Maybe their non commitment to re signing has more to do with lighting a fire under their teams butts to make changes ala Kobe.
 

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There's only one way where it's more logical to keep Deng instead of Hinrich. Age. Pretty big reason, but Hinrich, to me, is about ten times as valuable to any good team as Deng is.
 

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There's only one way where it's more logical to keep Deng instead of Hinrich. Age. Pretty big reason, but Hinrich, to me, is about ten times as valuable to any good team as Deng is.
Kirk Hinrich is only scoring 10.1 points a game on a dismal 47.0 TS% this season, along with 4.5 apg, and 3.7 rpg in 32 minutes. He's a good defender, but just based on those stats, that shows that on an average night, Hinrich's man is going to out produce him.

If you look at the per position stats, Kirk Hinrich out produces opposing point guards, but opposing shooting guards out produce him. The problem of course is that Hinrich won't really be valuable on this team then, as he won't get many point guard minutes because of Derrick Rose, and his defense against shooting guards has been mediocre, and he also has more of a struggle scoring when playing shooting guard.
 

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I'd rather get rid of Salmons and Hinrich, but I don't think you should say that Deng is off the table. He;s playing great this year, but he's not untouchable.
 

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How does it make sense for Bosh and Lebron to leave?

Both will make much more money if they stay put, if they decided to do sign and trades they will be going to depleted teams, if they sign as Free Agents they will leave money on the table and you know NBA players money comes first. Maybe their non commitment to re signing has more to do with lighting a fire under their teams butts to make changes ala Kobe.
Because Lebron could go down as the greatest player of all time if he wins a bunch of rings. And yet he is stuck on cleveland with a pretty garbage team around him. He could go to a big market get even more fame, more endorsement deals, and pretty much win the championship every year.

Bosh is stuck in Toronto... Nough said. You think that guy really wants to be there?


But if you think it is all about money to these guys and not winning. Then why would they not sign extensions in order to "light a fire" under their teams butts? Didnt you think that NBA players only care about money? So what happens if Cleveland and Toronto don't do anything major at the trade deadline? In your scenario Bosh and Lebron leave then right? And all of the other max contract guys who are pressuring their teams.
 

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It makes no sense to move Deng because he's, at worst, valuable in a sign-and-trade situation for one of the big four or five names set to be on the market this summer. No team is going to work a sign-and-trade for, say, Bosh if they're getting back Gibson and picks, but Deng, Gibson, and two first rounders is a respectable package. Furthermore, Deng has about equal value to any of the free agents once you get past the top four or five names this summer, so unless you honestly feel that you can sign two players outright from the James/Wade/Bosh/Johnson/Amare group, it makes zero sense to move Deng. Dumping Deng's salary to make room for David Lee(or Gay, Boozer, etc) is a lateral move at best.
 

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It makes no sense to move Deng because he's, at worst, valuable in a sign-and-trade situation for one of the big four or five names set to be on the market this summer. No team is going to work a sign-and-trade for, say, Bosh if they're getting back Gibson and picks, but Deng, Gibson, and two first rounders is a respectable package. Furthermore, Deng has about equal value to any of the free agents once you get past the top four or five names this summer, so unless you honestly feel that you can sign two players outright from the James/Wade/Bosh/Johnson/Amare group, it makes zero sense to move Deng. Dumping Deng's salary to make room for David Lee(or Gay, Boozer, etc) is a lateral move at best.
^this
 

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Because Lebron could go down as the greatest player of all time if he wins a bunch of rings. And yet he is stuck on cleveland with a pretty garbage team around him. He could go to a big market get even more fame, more endorsement deals, and pretty much win the championship every year.

Bosh is stuck in Toronto... Nough said. You think that guy really wants to be there?


But if you think it is all about money to these guys and not winning. Then why would they not sign extensions in order to "light a fire" under their teams butts? Didnt you think that NBA players only care about money? So what happens if Cleveland and Toronto don't do anything major at the trade deadline? In your scenario Bosh and Lebron leave then right? And all of the other max contract guys who are pressuring their teams.
Not signing extensions was actually all about money. It allowed the players to get an additional year under the current CBA, which should be much more player friendly than the next CBA.
 

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Not signing extensions was actually all about money. It allowed the players to get an additional year under the current CBA, which should be much more player friendly than the next CBA.
How does it benefit Lebron and Bosh to make 15.8 mil this year when you know they could have signed an extension and got paid 20+ mil this year?
I don't understand.
 

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Because Lebron could go down as the greatest player of all time if he wins a bunch of rings. And yet he is stuck on cleveland with a pretty garbage team around him. He could go to a big market get even more fame, more endorsement deals, and pretty much win the championship every year.
Nobody wins a championship every year, Lebron is not playing on a garbage team, believe it or not the team built around Lebron really meshes well with his style of game, they are one really good player away from winning a title, NY does not have the talent to win even with him on it. With the explosion of the internet and instant access right at the tip of your fingers this whole needing to go to a bigger market really does not make that huge of an impact since Lebron already is the premier NBA player with million and millions of dollars already in endorsements.

Bosh is stuck in Toronto... Nough said. You think that guy really wants to be there?
I think of worst places to spend my millions of dollars in.

But if you think it is all about money to these guys and not winning. Then why would they not sign extensions in order to "light a fire" under their teams butts? Didnt you think that NBA players only care about money? So what happens if Cleveland and Toronto don't do anything major at the trade deadline? In your scenario Bosh and Lebron leave then right? And all of the other max contract guys who are pressuring their teams.
I guess we will wait and see, the trade deadline is quickly arriving. I can understand Cleveland not really doing much they are in first place after all but if Toronto fails to bring in another piece I can see Bosh leaving, but again if they choose to leave they are leaving a TON of money on the table.
 

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if they choose to leave they are leaving a TON of money on the table.
Only if the new CBA brings down max salaries significantly(and it admittedly may). Under the current CBA they'd be best served signing a 4-year contract with a player option on the last year, because 10-year veterans are able to sign for a greater portion of the salary cap(35%) than 7-to-9-year veterans(30%). This is the same rationale that led to Bosh, Wade, and Lebron signing 4-year deals with player options on the last year after their rookie years. Unless it's believed that the owners are going to attempt to lower maximum contracts significantly in the new CBA, the importance of the players current teams being able to offer a sixth year is wildly overblown.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that paragraph only applies to James, Bosh, and Wade. Amare and Joe Johnson have been in the league one and two years longer, respectively, so may just want to lock up big deals. My predictions: Bosh and James sign four year deals with an opt out on the last to negotiate their last maximum contract at age 29 and 28, respectively. Joe Johnson, at 29 already, will take as much money over six years as he can get, as will the younger but occasionally banged-up Amare(unless he opts in to the final year of his deal). Dwayne Wade, playing as well as anyone at age 28, could go either way, but his history with injuries may push him toward a six year deal, though he may feel that he can negotiate a last large deal at 31.
 

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Nobody wins a championship every year, Lebron is not playing on a garbage team, believe it or not the team built around Lebron really meshes well with his style of game, they are one really good player away from winning a title, NY does not have the talent to win even with him on it. With the explosion of the internet and instant access right at the tip of your fingers this whole needing to go to a bigger market really does not make that huge of an impact since Lebron already is the premier NBA player with million and millions of dollars already in endorsements. .

IMO that team around Lebron is garbage. An over the hill Shaq at center, JJ hickson or Varejao at PF, Anthony parker at sg, and then Mo williams at the 1. Mo williams is the only above average starter on that team and he highly benefits from playing with Lebron and all the open looks that gets him. Lebron has that team in 1st place! Imagine if instead of the motley crue he has now he had Rose Deng and Noah with him. He could win 5 in a row, easy. And Once Jordan had a good team around him he basically won every year.

I think of worst places to spend my millions of dollars in.
But he is going to make his millions regardless I can't imagine him wanting to play in canada vs America. Toronto has a last place hockey team that is 10 times more popular than the Raptors.

I guess we will wait and see, the trade deadline is quickly arriving. I can understand Cleveland not really doing much they are in first place after all but if Toronto fails to bring in another piece I can see Bosh leaving, but again if they choose to leave they are leaving a TON of money on the table
That Toronto team is designed terribly for Bosh. They would have to make a ton of moves for it to make any sense from a basketball perspective to stay. And also I am not sure that they really are leaing a "ton" of money on the table. A lot of that has to do with the fact that their teams can offer them an extra year (my understanding) But how much more than 16.5 is Toronto willing to pay Bosh. Say they would pay him 20 mil. He would only be losing out on 3.5 mil yearly in salary. I am pretty sure that Bosh could make that up in endorsements by playing in a city like Chicago.
 
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