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Discussion Starter #121
I think Patella should be in more than Davis. Although he didn’t have a great game last night, he has the athleticism that Davis lacks. He can run with Shungu, Smith and Deloney and compete above the rim.
Can't really disagree with this, though this team does need Davis to be good.

I just want to see Davis catch some passes thrown his way and play a bit hungrier/grab a few more boards at minimum. Right now, I feel like I'm watching a player a few steps behind each movement with slow reaction time, which of course is the opposite of Patella.
 

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At the start of the season, I thought that the addition of two frontcourt players with high-major experience would pull defensive attention away from Anthony. Add what the Cats returned in the backcourt, and I thought that a really special year could be on the way. I'm dumbfounded now to see that the assets brought by Giddens and Demuth are negligible - even moreso to consider that the addition of Giddens and Demuth minus the absence of Powell is a net negative.
i really didn't see that coming.
 

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Can't really disagree with this, though this team does need Davis to be good.

I just want to see Davis catch some passes thrown his way and play a bit hungrier/grab a few more boards at minimum. Right now, I feel like I'm watching a player a few steps behind each movement with slow reaction time, which of course is the opposite of Patella.
I like Davis and he can be an outside scoring threat.. he seems to like hanging out by three point line.. but his slow reaction defensively results in fouls which down the line in conference play can be the game. And I totally disagree with the poster that said Bailey’s confidence is only there when UVM is already in a upswing. He has been called a spark ad nauseam for a reason.
 

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At the start of the season, I thought that the addition of two frontcourt players with high-major experience would pull defensive attention away from Anthony. Add what the Cats returned in the backcourt, and I thought that a really special year could be on the way. I'm dumbfounded now to see that the assets brought by Giddens and Demuth are negligible - even moreso to consider that the addition of Giddens and Demuth minus the absence of Powell is a net negative.
i really didn't see that coming.
I for one repeatedly told uvm fans to measure the hype...and I said why. People don't just magically become another player... Specifically Giddens was a mess at his previous stops.

With that said... This is still a kenpom ranked 84 place team. One loss and everyone loses their mind. Granted there are some issues.

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At the start of the season, I thought that the addition of two frontcourt players with high-major experience would pull defensive attention away from Anthony. Add what the Cats returned in the backcourt, and I thought that a really special year could be on the way. I'm dumbfounded now to see that the assets brought by Giddens and Demuth are negligible - even moreso to consider that the addition of Giddens and Demuth minus the absence of Powell is a net negative.
i really didn't see that coming.
You just don’t know what you’re going to get with transfers down. The reality is these guys don’t truly have high major experience. They were wearing high major uniforms but that’s a different thing. Alabama and OK State are not exactly Duke and Kentucky. If you have a functional high major skill set, you will see decent court time at those schools, and Giddens and DeMuth did not. They transferred to America East because they were mis-recruited and couldn’t play at that higher level.

I still think it’s worth trying to get some guys like that because they can often contribute something valuable playing at a more appropriate level. We’ll get some of that from Giddens over the balance of the year. But it‘s rare for those guys to be really transformative for a roster.
 

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I just rewatched first half. When Giddens doesn’t show up in the box score he get a lot of heat on these boards, but I must say his foul trouble in this game was a bit questionable. Two of the four fouls were moving screens, and both were questionable calls at best. There weren’t defensive hacks.

As for rebounding they were a few moments where UVM was able to control the defensive glass because of Giddens tapping out to Stef or Robin who was credited with possession. It’s helpful having an athletic 6’11” guy to do that. Giddens also had that sweet block on Foreman which he wasn’t credited with for some reason.

FWIW Giddens also had the best plus/minus on the team at +7 compared to Davis at -8 (only other player positive as Shungu at +5).

I’d like to see him more engaged in offensive schemes. I do like his mid range (and even long range) jump shot. that threat could help declutter the paint for Lamb.

UVM’s issues are systemic which is what’s both so frustrating and alarming. We’re not playing this way because we lost Ernie, or because Ryan Davis is too soft or an issue with Giddens. The offensive flow and defensive communication isn’t there and that’s not a personnel issue, thats a team issue.
 

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I am more a reader than a poster and am not connected to the team.

I am troubled by some anonymous comments about individual players - talk about someone "sucks" or which person should have been redshirted or someone adding no value to the team. These are young people in college and not professional stars.

I love these guys. I'm grateful they chose UVM. They are under pressure as public figures, as athletes, and as young people finding their way. I wish commenters would speak about them as if they were sons, nephews, or players from the AAU teams they coached. I wish people spoke about them as if your real names were attached to your posts.

Brutal anonymous assessments of 18-19-20-21 year old players are unfair and maybe cowardly. I doubt these comments make UVM a better place to play and go to college. Why the cruelty? What's the point? Would you say these things face to face?

This message board is part of the experience for players and their families. Few of us were subject to anonymous public criticism when we were in college. What do we know about their current experience. Last year one of our players shared his story of depression. Can you imagine going through college wondering which fan, which booster, which guy in the hallway is telling the world you suck?
 

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I am more a reader than a poster and am not connected to the team.

I am troubled by some anonymous comments about individual players - talk about someone "sucks" or which person should have been redshirted or someone adding no value to the team. These are young people in college and not professional stars.

I love these guys. I'm grateful they chose UVM. They are under pressure as public figures, as athletes, and as young people finding their way. I wish commenters would speak about them as if they were sons, nephews, or players from the AAU teams they coached. I wish people spoke about them as if your real names were attached to your posts.

Brutal anonymous assessments of 18-19-20-21 year old players are unfair and maybe cowardly. I doubt these comments make UVM a better place to play and go to college. Why the cruelty? What's the point? Would you say these things face to face?

This message board is part of the experience for players and their families. Few of us were subject to anonymous public criticism when we were in college. What do we know about their current experience. Last year one of our players shared his story of depression. Can you imagine going through college wondering which fan, which booster, which guy in the hallway is telling the world you suck?
*eye roll *

They are public figures by choice, are compensated to the tunes of 10k's of dollars in free education. I hardly doubt anyone casting aspersions on them as human beings. The discussion is about them as basketball players.

They are free to stop playing the game if feelings are hurt. And thus remove themselves from this process that can at times be cutting. IMO fans can voice their displeasure all they want and critique their on court performance.

When you say message boards are part of the experience for family and player... What you really mean is they love the adulation but the minute criticism is levied in their basketball capacity there are hurt feelings? Kind of goes hand in hand with the world we live in... Celebrate me, worship me, tell me how great I am, give me my safe space but don't you dare give an honest assessment of my performance.

Sorry... Not buying it... At some point as working adults they are going to have to learn to deal with the world as it is... Job performance reviews etc.



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There is valid points in both comments. This is a basketball forum where fans discuss on the court performance. When bad decisions are made, when stupid plays are made, or when players aren't living up to what they are supposed to do, comments are going to be made, and that's part of the fan experience.

As long as the comments don't become personal, and remain about on the court performance, that is part of playing D1 athletics.

My issue is when commenters attack them as people, or when we start reading comments that aren't about individual performance. We shouldn't read that so and so isn't a D1 player, or this player just sucks. There is no point in that.

Rip away at boneheaded moves, bad passes, etc. The kids sign up for that when they sign up for a D1 team that has any fanbase at all.
 

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I am more a reader than a poster and am not connected to the team.

I am troubled by some anonymous comments about individual players - talk about someone "sucks" or which person should have been redshirted or someone adding no value to the team. These are young people in college and not professional stars.

I love these guys. I'm grateful they chose UVM. They are under pressure as public figures, as athletes, and as young people finding their way. I wish commenters would speak about them as if they were sons, nephews, or players from the AAU teams they coached. I wish people spoke about them as if your real names were attached to your posts.

Brutal anonymous assessments of 18-19-20-21 year old players are unfair and maybe cowardly. I doubt these comments make UVM a better place to play and go to college. Why the cruelty? What's the point? Would you say these things face to face?

This message board is part of the experience for players and their families. Few of us were subject to anonymous public criticism when we were in college. What do we know about their current experience. Last year one of our players shared his story of depression. Can you imagine going through college wondering which fan, which booster, which guy in the hallway is telling the world you suck?
I am more a reader than a poster and am not connected to the team.

I am troubled by some anonymous comments about individual players - talk about someone "sucks" or which person should have been redshirted or someone adding no value to the team. These are young people in college and not professional stars.

I love these guys. I'm grateful they chose UVM. They are under pressure as public figures, as athletes, and as young people finding their way. I wish commenters would speak about them as if they were sons, nephews, or players from the AAU teams they coached. I wish people spoke about them as if your real names were attached to your posts.

Brutal anonymous assessments of 18-19-20-21 year old players are unfair and maybe cowardly. I doubt these comments make UVM a better place to play and go to college. Why the cruelty? What's the point? Would you say these things face to face?

This message board is part of the experience for players and their families. Few of us were subject to anonymous public criticism when we were in college. What do we know about their current experience. Last year one of our players shared his story of depression. Can you imagine going through college wondering which fan, which booster, which guy in the hallway is telling the world you suck?
I haven’t seen any personal attacks on this board. I’m sorry, criticism of performance goes with the territory.
 

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There is valid points in both comments. This is a basketball forum where fans discuss on the court performance. When bad decisions are made, when stupid plays are made, or when players aren't living up to what they are supposed to do, comments are going to be made, and that's part of the fan experience.

As long as the comments don't become personal, and remain about on the court performance, that is part of playing D1 athletics.

My issue is when commenters attack them as people, or when we start reading comments that aren't about individual performance. We shouldn't read that so and so isn't a D1 player, or this player just sucks. There is no point in that.

Rip away at boneheaded moves, bad passes, etc. The kids sign up for that when they sign up for a D1 team that has any fanbase at all.
Being called not a D1 player is the same as any other evaluation of play. It's an overall evaluation of a player's ability to positively contribute on the court. It's not an attack on the player's character which is something which should be off limits. If a poster says player X just sucks, then someone should ask them to elaborate. Personally IMO as long as it's about basketball, it's fair game. I encourage people to disagree. That's what these boards are for. They're not just to stroke the ego's of players, coaches, or their family and friends. I like to think I'm fair in my opinions. If I think they did a good job I make sure to say so. If I don't, then I say that too. It's never personal. All feedback, both positive and negative can be used to improve. People just prefer hearing the positive a lot more.
 

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Gr8t Dane
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Being called not a D1 player is the same as any other evaluation of play. It's an overall evaluation of a player's ability to positively contribute on the court. It's not an attack on the player's character which is something which should be off limits. If a poster says player X just sucks, then someone should ask them to elaborate. Personally IMO as long as it's about basketball, it's fair game. I encourage people to disagree. That's what these boards are for. They're not just to stroke the ego's of players, coaches, or their family and friends. I like to think I'm fair in my opinions. If I think they did a good job I make sure to say so. If I don't, then I say that too. It's never personal. All feedback, both positive and negative can be used to improve. People just prefer hearing the positive a lot more.
Fair point on the not a D1 player bit. I just think that is taking it a little far. I'm ok with Player X had 3 turnovers and cost the game for my team. I'm hesitant to ever say that Player X doesn't belong on the team and shouldn't be here.

Maybe that is just me being over sensitive. These guys are getting a scholarship to a good school and playing a televised sport with rabid fans, and criticism comes with the territory, but there is a line for amateur athletes.

I'm not connected to any program or player, but I have heard from people that are connected that players do read the boards (they shouldn't) and I'd hate to see a player have something said on a message board by armchair quarterbacks have an affect on their play.

That's me. Thankfully outside of a few outliers a few years ago, I haven't seen any real personal attacks. The AE has a pretty decent/civil fanbase. Read some of the boards for big conferences and it is much, much worse!
 

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Fair point on the not a D1 player bit. I just think that is taking it a little far. I'm ok with Player X had 3 turnovers and cost the game for my team. I'm hesitant to ever say that Player X doesn't belong on the team and shouldn't be here.

Maybe that is just me being over sensitive. These guys are getting a scholarship to a good school and playing a televised sport with rabid fans, and criticism comes with the territory, but there is a line for amateur athletes.

I'm not connected to any program or player, but I have heard from people that are connected that players do read the boards (they shouldn't) and I'd hate to see a player have something said on a message board by armchair quarterbacks have an affect on their play.

That's me. Thankfully outside of a few outliers a few years ago, I haven't seen any real personal attacks. The AE has a pretty decent/civil fanbase. Read some of the boards for big conferences and it is much, much worse!
If players and family read message boards... They should take what they read with a grain of salt...or pound.

I'm crystal clear in that when I watch games and my emotions are going wild I'm an unbalanced human being. I swing wildly as the game ebs and flow... That's how I like to experience the game... Lol. I jokingly say all the time I tote around a gas can. Let's be fair... I have never coached or played a minute of d1 hoops... I'm just here for the crazy.

I honestly hope people can view posting here in its proper context... We are just shooting the proverbial shit.

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Fair point on the not a D1 player bit. I just think that is taking it a little far. I'm ok with Player X had 3 turnovers and cost the game for my team. I'm hesitant to ever say that Player X doesn't belong on the team and shouldn't be here.

Maybe that is just me being over sensitive. These guys are getting a scholarship to a good school and playing a televised sport with rabid fans, and criticism comes with the territory, but there is a line for amateur athletes.

I'm not connected to any program or player, but I have heard from people that are connected that players do read the boards (they shouldn't) and I'd hate to see a player have something said on a message board by armchair quarterbacks have an affect on their play.

That's me. Thankfully outside of a few outliers a few years ago, I haven't seen any real personal attacks. The AE has a pretty decent/civil fanbase. Read some of the boards for big conferences and it is much, much worse!
Let's hope they listen to their coaches more than they listen to us, since their the ones who decide who plays and for how long.
 

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Let's hope they listen to their coaches more than they listen to us, since their the ones who decide who plays and for how long.
They should ignore us... Most of us know little about what goes on inside a d1 program and we don't post so they can read... We discuss amongst ourselves as observers from the outside.

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That's why Powell shirring makes no sense... Bring him along this season to be ready as stefs number 2...unless other stuff going on with him. Brutal move by Becker faking himself out. Vermont got some serious problems after this year with loss of lamb. First time in years I'd be worried about the talent on this team going forward. Duncan sucks... Demuth sucks... Davis is regressing it looks like it... They are young still but lots of questions after this season.

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You say you are entitled to say things like this because players get a scholarship. Does this apply to all scholarship students or just athletes? You say they need to get used to it as preparation for the "real world" and performance reviews. Presumably real world performance reviews will come from a known person. When you tell players they suck you should put your name on it and participate in the same real world. Will you tell a player they suck to their face? I doubt it. Will you sit behind the bench and shout that an individual player sucks? I doubt it. You do it here where you can be anonymous.
 

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You say you are entitled to say things like this because players get a scholarship. Does this apply to all scholarship students or just athletes? You say they need to get used to it as preparation for the "real world" and performance reviews. Presumably real world performance reviews will come from a known person. When you tell players they suck you should put your name on it and participate in the same real world. Will you tell a player they suck to their face? I doubt it. Will you sit behind the bench and shout that an individual player sucks? I doubt it. You do it here where you can be anonymous.
OK.. Let me rewrite it. Demuth not a good basketball player neither is Giddens at this leave? Feels better? Or should I say how awesome they are and are really killing it... It's a lie but hey... As long as your feelings aren't hurt.

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Real late to the party but congrats to Stony Brook, they played really well. Every time UVM was about to extend a lead they would make a stop and shot. I thought the game was over when UVM was up 7? With like 2:30 left and then we had three straight turnovers and Stony Brook came up big after each one. In that position, UVM should win that game but they didn’t close and Stony Brook did. Well played and entertaining game all around though. I’m still confident that UVM is the better team that came up short in this particular game, but they are going to be challenged more than I thought.
 

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My feelings aren't the issue. My interest is decent treatment for young men and women who come to our town to study and play a game we all love. I don't have a problem with fans grumbling over beers after a game. That's the place to be "emotional" if that is your personal need. Make some friends and gripe with them. You can say things you might not say to a player face to face. You can all go home and forget about it until the next game.

Public message boards take more responsibility than a face to face conversation. You are making anonymous comments about people who can't respond. How we exercise that opportunity is up to us.

And no, abuse from community members is not the price of a scholarship.
 
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