[umainealum]

I didn't want to derail the Vermont team thread for next year, but one thing I read in there was the number of guys that were going to use the "extra" year the NCAA has granted everyone due to covid. I am very curious to see this all play out at programs all across the country. I mean, pretty much all rosters have been created assuming guys are going to graduate, leave, turn pro, etc. but suddenly you are going to have all these older guys sticking around. Younger guys have been assuming they will be able to step right in when Johnny graduates but all of a sudden Johnny is still gonna be here as others are becoming sophomores, juniors or seniors.

I have a feeling that many coaches are going to find it fairly difficult to keep people happy and thus team chemistry could really play a factor next year. I wonder if mid-year transfers will be in full force next season.

 

[barneybearcat]

i was thinking this same thing yesterday. i would be pretty pissed if i was a freshman or sophomore working hard and putting in my time while only playing limited minutes just so a senior can get his masters and play the extra year. i think the NCAA messed up. They should have said if you opt out of the season you can come back for an additional year but you cant play this entire season then come back. it should have been a 1 for 1.

 

[NotDeadYet]

I think the group most likely to be negatively affected is this year's HS seniors. They had a short season with fewer chances to develop and show their stuff, recruiting trips didn't happen and there will be fewer open slots to compete for. The class of '21 is going to take a hit. The NCAA has issued a waiver allowing teams to have more than 13 scholarship players, which might help some, but I don't know the details.

 

[VT Cats Fan]

It's a free year of college. The vast majority of players in our league are not going to make a career of playing basketball. It seems like a positive for everyone except the new recruits or potential new recruits.

 

[UVM Hoop Cat]

I’m not really seeing too much of an issue given all returning players are on “same terms” and incoming freshmen can always redshirt if it looks like there’s truly going to be a logjam.

 

[ball_of_rubber]

I think the group most likely to be negatively affected is this year's HS seniors. They had a short season with fewer chances to develop and show their stuff, recruiting trips didn't happen and there will be fewer open slots to compete for. The class of '21 is going to take a hit. The NCAA has issued a waiver allowing teams to have more than 13 scholarship players, which might help some, but I don't know the details.

It would make the most sense if this were a national increase for one season.

 

[UVM Hoop Cat]

It's a free year of college. The vast majority of players in our league are not going to make a career of playing basketball. It seems like a positive for everyone except the new recruits or potential new recruits.

This. Per UVM's website, the cost to attend UVM is $61K for out-of-state students. Hey, if these players have much better options to gain equal or greater value currently and in future career earnings for next year by all means go for it.

How that's not an obvious no-brainer for any current UVM senior to take the NCAA up on that offer to me would be.....insane. Not to mention. another year in college where COVID may actually be less of an issue has to be very appealing for a young person. Attending college during a pandemic where social situations are extremely limited has got to be pretty terrible.

 

[UVM Hoop Cat]

I'm going to sound like an Old/Boomer, and this is NOT what today's generation wants to hear, but players worried about their roles can always outwork and outplay their competition to earn more playing time, the old fashioned way.

 

[umainealum]

I feel like some are completely missing the point. Let's say I'm a senior and now have an extra year of eligibility. Sure, I'm pumped as I might possibly get a master's degree paid for plus I get to play the game I love for another free year at a school I love. Hoop Cat is a sophomore and my backup who thought he was going to step in as a junior and have a clear lane to start. However, with me sticking around, he is now stuck behind me for his junior year plus we brought in razor ramon who is a stud freshman and will also challenge for time. Hoop Cat didn't sign up for this and ramon really isn't all that excited as he thought he was going to have a chance for serious playing time, but now he could find it even tougher to get that PT with me returning as well.

I know it's a free year of college, that is not the point at all. The point is it could be tougher this year to keep people happy, more so than in any other year due to the logjam. Jumping from 12 or 13 guys (plus maybe a couple walk-ons) to 14, 15 or 16 guys could make it pretty difficult to keep everyone happy. Sure, you have redshirts, but how many guys are you going to redshirt and/or how many guys want to redshirt?

All I'm saying is the team dynamics could be quite different at a lot of schools next year. Team chemistry is going to be more difficult to achieve in my opinion due to the sheer number of guys, egos, anticipated playing time, etc.

 

[VT Cats Fan]

I guess if you're recruiting guys who care about their own playing time over what's best for the team, this could be a problem.

My point about the free year is really, that 2021-2022 is a redo of the cluster-eff of the 2020-2021 season. All the guys on the team are pretty much in the same position they were for the prior season, with the exception of new recruits, incoming Freshmen.

 

[umainealum]

I guess if you're recruiting guys who care about their own playing time over what's best for the team, this could be a problem.

My point about the free year is really, that 2021-2022 is a redo of the cluster-eff of the 2020-2021 season. All the guys on the team are pretty much in the same position they were for the prior season, with the exception of new recruits, incoming Freshmen.

Come on...you know what I'm saying. If I know I am biding my time for a couple of years and then all of a sudden that same guy is still there, that is kinda tough. Suddenly my junior year is jacked up and I will only have my senior left to lead the team. Guys have egos. We all talk about wanting what's best for the team, but if you are a competitive Division I athlete, you think you being on the court is what's best for the team lol. And if someone has "sacrificed" for 2 years and now is going to be asked to do it for a 3rd, they may not be that excited.

I understand it's a redo, but schools aren't going to be able to have extra scholarships for infinity. As far as I know, this upcoming year is the only year they allowed to exceed the limits. But that doesn't change the fact that someone will now have to be a backup for a 3rd straight year instead of having a clear lane ahead of them. Look, I am just throwing out a certain example.

All of this is why I think coaches are going to have to do a lot of work with team chemistry.

 

[catpower]

I guess if you're recruiting guys who care about their own playing time over what's best for the team, this could be a problem.

My point about the free year is really, that 2021-2022 is a redo of the cluster-eff of the 2020-2021 season. All the guys on the team are pretty much in the same position they were for the prior season, with the exception of new recruits, incoming Freshmen.

And you're acting like UVM is immune from this? They've been lucky to not have as many transfers in recent years, but dismissing the possibility of players being upset with their role and impacting chemistry on a roster is a concern at UVM, or any other program.

I get it, UVM fans right now want to get excited and act like they can run it back and add more parts. But let's not act as though its a guarantee everything will work out splendid; having a roster size of 18 people could lead to some issues. You're smarter than that.

 

[catpower]

I feel like some are completely missing the point. Let's say I'm a senior and now have an extra year of eligibility. Sure, I'm pumped as I might possibly get a master's degree paid for plus I get to play the game I love for another free year at a school I love. Hoop Cat is a sophomore and my backup who thought he was going to step in as a junior and have a clear lane to start. However, with me sticking around, he is now stuck behind me for his junior year plus we brought in razor ramon who is a stud freshman and will also challenge for time. Hoop Cat didn't sign up for this and ramon really isn't all that excited as he thought he was going to have a chance for serious playing time, but now he could find it even tougher to get that PT with me returning as well.

I know it's a free year of college, that is not the point at all. The point is it could be tougher this year to keep people happy, more so than in any other year due to the logjam. Jumping from 12 or 13 guys (plus maybe a couple walk-ons) to 14, 15 or 16 guys could make it pretty difficult to keep everyone happy. Sure, you have redshirts, but how many guys are you going to redshirt and/or how many guys want to redshirt?

All I'm saying is the team dynamics could be quite different at a lot of schools next year. Team chemistry is going to be more difficult to achieve in my opinion due to the sheer number of guys, egos, anticipated playing time, etc.

You're right and your points are valid. You just picked the wrong fanbase to have a logical conversation with.

 

[umainealum]

You're right and your points are valid. You just picked the wrong fanbase to have a logical conversation with.

Well, that fanbase responded, probably because this site consists mostly of Cat fans. But that's fine. I feel like this is going to crop up across all sports at all levels. This is a huge shift in the dynamics of all teams and I think some coaches and players will struggle with it.

 

[UVM Hoop Cat]

I feel like some are completely missing the point. Let's say I'm a senior and now have an extra year of eligibility. Sure, I'm pumped as I might possibly get a master's degree paid for plus I get to play the game I love for another free year at a school I love. Hoop Cat is a sophomore and my backup who thought he was going to step in as a junior and have a clear lane to start. However, with me sticking around, he is now stuck behind me for his junior year plus we brought in razor ramon who is a stud freshman and will also challenge for time. Hoop Cat didn't sign up for this and ramon really isn't all that excited as he thought he was going to have a chance for serious playing time, but now he could find it even tougher to get that PT with me returning as well.

I know it's a free year of college, that is not the point at all. The point is it could be tougher this year to keep people happy, more so than in any other year due to the logjam. Jumping from 12 or 13 guys (plus maybe a couple walk-ons) to 14, 15 or 16 guys could make it pretty difficult to keep everyone happy. Sure, you have redshirts, but how many guys are you going to redshirt and/or how many guys want to redshirt?

All I'm saying is the team dynamics could be quite different at a lot of schools next year. Team chemistry is going to be more difficult to achieve in my opinion due to the sheer number of guys, egos, anticipated playing time, etc.

I totally get the point, I don't think any PT is ever guaranteed though and guys are always having to compete for playing time no matter what. It's always hard to keep players happy with playing time in any given season.

I don't see how players like Shungu/Mazzulla returning are any different then if UVM took on other grad transfer guards or brought in excellent freshmen that players like R Duncan/Deloney/Beckett would have to compete with. From that sense, it's actually easier given they already know well the players and chemistry will be achieved given they have been in the program for a long time now.

 

[umainealum]

I totally get the point, I don't think any PT is ever guaranteed though and guys are always having to compete for playing time no matter what. It's always hard to keep players happy with playing time in any given season.

I don't see how players like Shungu/Mazzulla returning are any different then if UVM took on other grad transfer guards or brought in excellent freshmen that players like R Duncan/Deloney/Beckett would have to compete with. From that sense, it's actually easier given they already know well the players and chemistry will be achieved given they have been in the program for a long time now.

Absolutely, PT is never guaranteed and guys have to compete to earn it. However, let's not kid ourselves. If you have been the backup for the last 2 years, you certainly expect when I graduate that you will get a lot of the mins I was getting. But now that I'm coming back in addition to the hot shot frosh, playing time is going to be very limited. And yes, it is always hard to keep guys happy and this upcoming season will be even more so with the extra guys.

OK, schools can still add those grad transfers in addition to those guys returning AND the new freshmen.

There are more mouths to feed, more guys to keep happy...that guarantees that it will be more difficult to achieve team chemistry.

 

[NotDeadYet]

Winning seems to build team chemistry faster than anything else I can think of. Many players who rarely get time feel great about being part of a winning team.

 

[VT Cats Fan]

And you're acting like UVM is immune from this? They've been lucky to not have as many transfers in recent years, but dismissing the possibility of players being upset with their role and impacting chemistry on a roster is a concern at UVM, or any other program.

I get it, UVM fans right now want to get excited and act like they can run it back and add more parts. But let's not act as though its a guarantee everything will work out splendid; having a roster size of 18 people could lead to some issues. You're smarter than that.

I guess my most recent comment is a reflection about UVM's experience, but honestly, I don't think that this is a big deal for the guys that are already on a mid major team. What's really changed? It really is a do over after what ended up being a half of a season for many teams. Sure, it's going to take an extra year to be "the guy". So what?

 

[catpower]

I guess my most recent comment is a reflection about UVM's experience, but honestly, I don't think that this is a big deal for the guys that are already on a mid major team. What's really changed? It really is a do over after what ended up being a half of a season for many teams. Sure, it's going to take an extra year to be "the guy". So what?

That "So what" is why there are 900 names in the transfer portal annually.

 

[VT Cats Fan]

That "So what" is why there are 900 names in the transfer portal annually.

Why so salty today, catpower?

Tell me how many of those 900 kids want to transfer because they will have to wait one more year to be "the guy". That will impress me. Transfers have been increasing dramatically for years...yawn...