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This only makes sense if we move on from DeRozan. Strange though, for sure
 

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lol has a couple good games as a 6th man, makes 11 mil a year.........ouch
Granted, $11 mil in the new salary cap is about $7.25 mil in the previous cap situation. $7.25 is about right for a bench combo wing I would think.
 

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Wow this hit the airwaves literally within an hour of my voiced concerns.

Ok ... perhaps a bit much, but reality is this is the new NBA salary heights. Not much better than Carroll's contract or what Amir went away to get. It's just a new plateau for mediocre players that we'll all get used to.... I'm already shaking to think what Demar is going to get ...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Why do the fans care so much about the owners spending money?

We signed a good young player to a three year deal, he's not leaving us, that's a good thing right?
Nobody cares about them spending money. It's about them not using their resources efficiently and not putting the best possible team on the court. If anything we should've spent that money on keeping Amir who's a much better player. Given the same opportunity as Ross (3 seasons of mediocre play) I would bet money that a guy like Norman Powell(as well as a truckload of wing players in and out of the league) wouldn't do that much worse than what Ross has done in his 3 years.
 

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Nobody cares about them spending money. It's about them not using their resources efficiently and not putting the best possible team on the court. If anything we should've spent that money on keeping Amir who's a much better player. Given the same opportunity as Ross (3 seasons of mediocre play) I would bet money that a guy like Norman Powell(as well as a truckload of wing players in and out of the league) wouldn't do that much worse than what Ross has done in his 3 years.
Keeping Amir? I'm sorry but what has Amir done for us in the past few seasons? We probably have a better PF rotation without him and we're spending far less to achieve that.

Ross would have got paid elsewhere. The kid has great athleticism, can shoot and can defend. Does he always put it together? No. But he was forced into a staring role that defied his maturity, that's on our system, not him as a player.

We've kept a talented basketball player, you should be happy.

As I always like to ask, where would you rather we spent this resource? Who would you rather have (realistically) attracted to come a play in Toronto?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Keeping Amir? I'm sorry but what has Amir done for us in the past few seasons? We probably have a better PF rotation without him and we're spending far less to achieve that.
Name your preferred metrics and I'll guarantee you that Amir is worth more than Ross using that metrics. Higher PER, more win shares, better team defense, better team offense, you name it.

Ross would have got paid elsewhere. The kid has great athleticism, can shoot and can defend. Does he always put it together? No. But he was forced into a staring role that defied his maturity, that's on our system, not him as a player.
Call me a skeptic but I have a hard time imagining Ross getting 33 mil anywhere else. He's going to be 25 years old in a few months and hasn't averaged more than 10 points a game despite being a starter on a team that has lacked wing depth the past 2 years. He gets to the line 0.7 times a game the past year. ZERO POINT SEVEN TIMES. A 38 year old Vince Carter got to the line more than Ross last year. You can have all the athleticism in the world but unless you put those skills to good use you're better off showcasing those skills on hoop mixtapes than actual NBA games.

We've kept a talented basketball player, you should be happy.

As I always like to ask, where would you rather we spent this resource? Who would you rather have (realistically) attracted to come a play in Toronto?
We overpaid for a mediocre 25 year old wing player that's a dime a dozen. I shouldn't be happy.

I was one of Ross' biggest supporter during his rookie year. The biggest knock on DeRozan has always been his lack of 3pt range and how he has the disadvantage of being a wing player without a 3pt shot in a league that's dominated by the 3. Ross on paper was suppose to be DeRozan with range. I believe I once suggested trading DeRozan because I believed that Ross would develop and surpass DeRozan by year 3-4. The problem is that Ross never improved. He's still pretty much the same player now as when he was a rookie.
 

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Name your preferred metrics and I'll guarantee you that Amir is worth more than Ross using that metrics. Higher PER, more win shares, better team defense, better team offense, you name it.
What does that matter? Amir is beaten up and couldn't give you full starter minutes. Masai improved the PF rotation by letting him go.


Call me a skeptic but I have a hard time imagining Ross getting 33 mil anywhere else. He's going to be 25 years old in a few months and hasn't averaged more than 10 points a game despite being a starter on a team that has lacked wing depth the past 2 years. He gets to the line 0.7 times a game the past year. ZERO POINT SEVEN TIMES. A 38 year old Vince Carter got to the line more than Ross last year. You can have all the athleticism in the world but unless you put those skills to good use you're better off showcasing those skills on hoop mixtapes than actual NBA games.
I never said he would have been paid $33 million, but he would have been paid. Which means we would have lost him. For nothing.


I was one of Ross' biggest supporter during his rookie year. The biggest knock on DeRozan has always been his lack of 3pt range and how he has the disadvantage of being a wing player without a 3pt shot in a league that's dominated by the 3. Ross on paper was suppose to be DeRozan with range. I believe I once suggested trading DeRozan because I believed that Ross would develop and surpass DeRozan by year 3-4. The problem is that Ross never improved. He's still pretty much the same player now as when he was a rookie.
This is all just opinion, you can't tell me what Ross is right now because we haven't seen a large enough amount of games to form an opinion on him in his new role.

As I always like to ask, where would you rather we spent this resource? Who would you rather have (realistically) attracted to come a play in Toronto?
Still waiting...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
What does that matter? Amir is beaten up and couldn't give you full starter minutes. Masai improved the PF rotation by letting him go.
That's the thing though. A beaten up Amir is still a better player than Ross. Amir couldn't play starter minutes because of his health. Ross couldn't give you starter minutes because he sucks. Remember that's why we got Carroll for? Because Ross sucks?

Basically you end up with either 20 min a game from Ross or 20 min a game from Amir. I'm sorry, I rather have Amir. Perhaps Amir can't play 30+ min a game but for that limited playing time he's good for at least 75 games a year and can actually make an impact when he does play.

This is all just opinion, you can't tell me what Ross is right now because we haven't seen a large enough amount of games to form an opinion on him in his new role.
I've seen him for 100+ games. I think I've seen enough to form an opinion. If every time a player gets benched means he'll mysteriously turn things around then teams should be handing out 10+ mil contract to every struggling young player. If Ross continues to suck then that would be the norm. If he turns it around that would be the anomaly. At 25 years old I just don't see it happening.

Still waiting...
I don't think this even warrant a response. The boys at Raptors Republic even made a chart to demonstrate why theres no point to this signing.



The worst case scenario is that we spend a tad more on Ross next year by matching an offer. Although at 11 mil a year I honestly doubt we would save any money even if he has an improved season.
 

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That's the thing though. A beaten up Amir is still a better player than Ross. Amir couldn't play starter minutes because of his health. Ross couldn't give you starter minutes because he sucks. Remember that's why we got Carroll for? Because Ross sucks?

Basically you end up with either 20 min a game from Ross or 20 min a game from Amir. I'm sorry, I rather have Amir. Perhaps Amir can't play 30+ min a game but for that limited playing time he's good for at least 75 games a year and can actually make an impact when he does play.
But we don't want or need Amir. We actually need a backup SF. We need a player like Ross.

I've seen him for 100+ games. I think I've seen enough to form an opinion. If every time a player gets benched means he'll mysteriously turn things around then teams should be handing out 10+ mil contract to every struggling young player. If Ross continues to suck then that would be the norm. If he turns it around that would be the anomaly. At 25 years old I just don't see it happening.
Ross doesn't suck, you've just got your blinkers well and truly on.

I don't think this even warrant a response. The boys at Raptors Republic even made a chart to demonstrate why theres no point to this signing.



The worst case scenario is that we spend a tad more on Ross next year by matching an offer. Although at 11 mil a year I honestly doubt we would save any money even if he has an improved season.
It doesn't warrant a response because you haven't got one. Which player could the Raptors have added right now instead of Ross at the same value over the same amount of years?

Again, it doesn't actually matter. The team is proving my point. Masai knows what he is doing when constructing a franchise, we're 4-0 and people still find something to moan about.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
It doesn't warrant a response because you haven't got one. Which player could the Raptors have added right now instead of Ross at the same value over the same amount of years?
I don't even understand what your question is dude. The contract ends after this season. Why the hell would we need to add anyone now? Are you seriously telling me that we can't find a backup shooting guard to play 20 min a game if we had to?

How about this, we don't even need to find anyone from outside the organization. Norman Powell. There, let him play 20 min and I can guarantee you that he won't average less than 8 ppg a game which is likely what Ross will end up averaging this year. I mean what planet are you living on where it's rough to find a wing player, a backup wing player that is, to play 20 min for your team.

But just for the sake of it, these are the guys that we can sign next year or try to get via trade(that won't take much assets) that will be cheaper than Ross.

Gerald Henderson
Courtney Lee
Aaron Affalo(if he opts out)
Evan Turner
Gerald Green
Jamal Crawford

The list goes on and on. I'm not even going to bother with the guys that we can trade for. It's the wing position for god's sake. Everyone has a spare.

I'll tell you an actual legitimate reason for signing Ross to this contract. In case DeRozan leaves via free agency, Ross can step in and be his replacement. This is the only reason that actually makes any remote sense in my opinion. Although if we lose DeMar without finding a replacement and had to replace him with Ross, the team is going down the toilet anyway.
 

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I don't even understand what your question is dude. The contract ends after this season. Why the hell would we need to add anyone now? Are you seriously telling me that we can't find a backup shooting guard to play 20 min a game if we had to?

How about this, we don't even need to find anyone from outside the organization. Norman Powell. There, let him play 20 min and I can guarantee you that he won't average less than 8 ppg a game which is likely what Ross will end up averaging this year. I mean what planet are you living on where it's rough to find a wing player, a backup wing player that is, to play 20 min for your team.

But just for the sake of it, these are the guys that we can sign next year or try to get via trade(that won't take much assets) that will be cheaper than Ross.

Gerald Henderson
Courtney Lee
Aaron Affalo(if he opts out)
Evan Turner
Gerald Green
Jamal Crawford

The list goes on and on. I'm not even going to bother with the guys that we can trade for. It's the wing position for god's sake. Everyone has a spare.

I'll tell you an actual legitimate reason for signing Ross to this contract. In case DeRozan leaves via free agency, Ross can step in and be his replacement. This is the only reason that actually makes any remote sense in my opinion. Although if we lose DeMar without finding a replacement and had to replace him with Ross, the team is going down the toilet anyway.
You don't extend Ross now and you upset the chemistry and the balance of the team moving this season, it's as simple as that.

All of the players you listed are roughly $6-8m a year salary guys, that's effectively what Ross has been given under this new deal. He's also on the upward curve of his career while the majority of the others are looking back at the other side. It's like adding Lou Williams to that list, they're players that are career journeymen because they struggle to a piece in a wider scheme, Ross seems to be playing exactly in the spot we need him to right now.

We're 5-0. The team hasn't spent your money, it's spent the owners. Why don't you focus on the fact we're unbeaten - they clearly have some idea of what they're doing.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
You don't extend Ross now and you upset the chemistry and the balance of the team moving this season, it's as simple as that.

All of the players you listed are roughly $6-8m a year salary guys, that's effectively what Ross has been given under this new deal. He's also on the upward curve of his career while the majority of the others are looking back at the other side. It's like adding Lou Williams to that list, they're players that are career journeymen because they struggle to a piece in a wider scheme, Ross seems to be playing exactly in the spot we need him to right now.

We're 5-0. The team hasn't spent your money, it's spent the owners. Why don't you focus on the fact we're unbeaten - they clearly have some idea of what they're doing.
I wasn't aware that bench wingman are that vital to team chemistry. You actually can add Lou Williams to that list. For a scoring spark off the bench give me Lou over Ross every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Those guys are not going to cost you 33 mil or 31 mil over 3 years. Most of them are veteran role players that you can likely get at a bargain on short term deals. Which is exactly what teams should be spending on BENCH WING PLAYERS. I'll say it again, BENCH WING PLAYERS. No team is investing long term deals for those guys. Most of them are a revolving door of players that offer you similar production. You know why that is? Because they are not that important, they simply aren't. For you to bring team chemistry into this is just laughable.
 

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I actually agree with seifer on this one, and don't forget that I was driving the Ross bandwagon before we even drafted him. It is very unlikely for players to just all of a sudden put it together given how little Ross has shown (save for a certain 51 point night). But for Ross to get more than what JR Smith or Shumpert are getting doesn't seem to make much sense. I'm not sure what the downside of waiting it out would have been - you don't here about too many distractions coming from a third guy coming off the bench playing in a contract year.

edit- Let me add to this by saying that I still like Ross, and believe he is a decent player for this role and hope he develops into a JR Smith-type player. I'll also concede that he's been pretty good this season. But I've always contended that I don't care what other people do with their money as long as it doesn't affect what you can do when building a team. And to lose whatever the difference between the 10 million and his cap hold would have been might end up being significant the season that the cap goes up, I'm just saying.
 

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I think you know who I'm siding with in this one. My boy sonny weems was never given the chance Ross had. I don't think there would be a huge drop off if the raps just sign weems or bazemore. Probably can be had for cheap too.
 
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