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Discussion Starter #21
I like how ever since Porn said that not having Ross would upset our 5-0 team chemistry our team has now lost 2 games in a row and Ross has gone scoreless in the past 2 games.

Maybe Porn will now say that when Ross scores our team wins and when he doesn't we lose. You can make a bunch of dots look like anything if you squint your eyes long enough. Sometimes dots are just dots. A bench player that plays 15-20 min just isn't that important. Bringing in vague terms like "Team chemistry" and "Winning mentality" doesn't overshadow the fact that the dude is a shitty player. There I said it. He is a BAD player. In fact, before the Raptors signed him to this extension, I would be less surprised if he is out of the league than making 33 million.
 

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I like how ever since Porn said that not having Ross would upset our 5-0 team chemistry our team has now lost 2 games in a row and Ross has gone scoreless in the past 2 games.

Maybe Porn will now say that when Ross scores our team wins and when he doesn't we lose. You can make a bunch of dots look like anything if you squint your eyes long enough. Sometimes dots are just dots. A bench player that plays 15-20 min just isn't that important. Bringing in vague terms like "Team chemistry" and "Winning mentality" doesn't overshadow the fact that the dude is a shitty player. There I said it. He is a BAD player. In fact, before the Raptors signed him to this extension, I would be less surprised if he is out of the league than making 33 million.
I disagree. He is not a bad player. He brings enough quality to warrant being in the NBA.

Would I have paid him $31 million over 3 years? No. But it's not my money and I really don't see the point in getting pissed at the management when they make a call like this. They understand the cap far better than I ever will and if this signing turns out to be the reason we can't get somebody like Durant, then I'll hold my hands up and say I got it wrong, it does matter. But when the alternatives are players like Lou Williams and Amir Johnson, I don't think the difference in personnel matters enough to warrant a bashing.
 

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I believe he got a slight bump in salary due to a shorter term which works out for both sides. Would not be surprised if there was some sort of team option in the final year as well.

If they want to trade him he's more attractive to other teams and 3 years 33 million is more preferable to a team vs. a 4 or 5 year contract.

Terrence Ross probably thinks that he can cash in in 3 years as well.

Anyways, this contract is not nearly as bad as some people are making it out to be...I wouldn't personally give him that much money..but even if he doesn't progress as they hope..a 3 year contract is not crippling and they could easily trade it.
 

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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
I disagree. He is not a bad player. He brings enough quality to warrant being in the NBA.

Would I have paid him $31 million over 3 years? No. But it's not my money and I really don't see the point in getting pissed at the management when they make a call like this. They understand the cap far better than I ever will and if this signing turns out to be the reason we can't get somebody like Durant, then I'll hold my hands up and say I got it wrong, it does matter. But when the alternatives are players like Lou Williams and Amir Johnson, I don't think the difference in personnel matters enough to warrant a bashing.
The it's not your money argument just fails from every angle. Then would you mind if we sign Brian Scalabrine for the max contract? You wouldn't care either because it's not your money? How about we sign every scrub from the d-league and give everyone of them max contracts and use up all of our capspace? You're fine with that because it's somebody else's money? Does this sound stupid enough or should I keep going.

It's not about who's money it is dude. When your team spends money on the wrong people then guess what, your team either won't be any good or it could be a lot better. If you care about your team being good then you should care about who they spend money on. If winning isn't important to you and you just want to see the players you like playing on your team then you're not really a Raptor fan, you are a Ross fan.

And yes, Ross is a bad player. Most of his games usually goes like this. He launches a few 3s early on in the game, sometimes contested 3s. If he makes them then great, he'll give a shit the rest of the game. If he miss the first 3 shots, then that's a wrap and on to the next one. Good players will try to do other things when one thing isn't working. DeRozan gets to the line when his shots aren't falling. This year Demar is becoming a distributor as well when he gets double teamed. That's what I call development as a player. Ross does none of that. Right now he's just an average spot up shooter that can't give you anything else when his shots aren't falling.

And don't create false dilemmas to justify this signing. This isn't "It's either signing Ross to this bloated contract or end up with Amir or Lou Williams". There are a ton of options that even include just not spending the money and wait for opportunity. We were not in a desperate situation that warrants making a move like this one.
 

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The it's not your money argument just fails from every angle. Then would you mind if we sign Brian Scalabrine for the max contract? You wouldn't care either because it's not your money? How about we sign every scrub from the d-league and give everyone of them max contracts and use up all of our capspace? You're fine with that because it's somebody else's money? Does this sound stupid enough or should I keep going.

It's not about who's money it is dude. When your team spends money on the wrong people then guess what, your team either won't be any good or it could be a lot better. If you care about your team being good then you should care about who they spend money on. If winning isn't important to you and you just want to see the players you like playing on your team then you're not really a Raptor fan, you are a Ross fan.

And yes, Ross is a bad player. Most of his games usually goes like this. He launches a few 3s early on in the game, sometimes contested 3s. If he makes them then great, he'll give a shit the rest of the game. If he miss the first 3 shots, then that's a wrap and on to the next one. Good players will try to do other things when one thing isn't working. DeRozan gets to the line when his shots aren't falling. This year Demar is becoming a distributor as well when he gets double teamed. That's what I call development as a player. Ross does none of that. Right now he's just an average spot up shooter that can't give you anything else when his shots aren't falling.

And don't create false dilemmas to justify this signing. This isn't "It's either signing Ross to this bloated contract or end up with Amir or Lou Williams". There are a ton of options that even include just not spending the money and wait for opportunity. We were not in a desperate situation that warrants making a move like this one.
A little odd for you to accuse him of that seeing as you're the one comparing signing Ross to a 3 year 33 mil deal to signing Brian Scalibrine and D league players to max contracts....
 

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Discussion Starter #26
A little odd for you to accuse him of that seeing as you're the one comparing signing Ross to a 3 year 33 mil deal to signing Brian Scalibrine and D league players to max contracts....
First of all Porn said that the alternative is signing guys like Lou Williams and Amir Johnson. I'm pointing out that that's not the only alternative. It's a false dilemma because he thinks it's either Ross for 33 mil or Amir or Lou for similar money. It's not.

Secondly I'm not saying signing Ross to 33 mil is like giving Scalabrine the max. I don't know how you read that post and come out with that type of conclusion. You completely misunderstood the conversation. Porn said that he doesn't care about the dollar figure because it is not his money. If that's the case then why would he care if we spend max dollar on Scalabrine. It's not his money either way.

The point I'm making is that saying fans shouldn't care about how their team spends money because it's not their own money doesn't make any sense. If you're a fan then you want your team to be good. How good your team is depends on how it spends money.
 

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A little odd for you to accuse him of that seeing as you're the one comparing signing Ross to a 3 year 33 mil deal to signing Brian Scalibrine and D league players to max contracts....
I anticipate the next 20 posts being very personal in nature.
 

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First of all Porn said that the alternative is signing guys like Lou Williams and Amir Johnson. I'm pointing out that that's not the only alternative. It's a false dilemma because he thinks it's either Ross for 33 mil or Amir or Lou for similar money. It's not.

Secondly I'm not saying signing Ross to 33 mil is like giving Scalabrine the max. I don't know how you read that post and come out with that type of conclusion. You completely misunderstood the conversation. Porn said that he doesn't care about the dollar figure because it is not his money. If that's the case then why would he care if we spend max dollar on Scalabrine. It's not his money either way.

The point I'm making is that saying fans shouldn't care about how their team spends money because it's not their own money doesn't make any sense. If you're a fan then you want your team to be good. How good your team is depends on how it spends money.
It's not about the money when you slightly overspend to keep a young wing with high potential. Ross could have got 11 from some other dumb team, the Raptors paid him that to keep him. With the cap going up it won't hamstring them financially. That is why Porn isn't worried.

That's not really the same as comparing it to maxing out Brian Scalibrine who is old and, in all respect to the Red Mamba, sucks.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
It's not about the money when you slightly overspend to keep a young wing with high potential. Ross could have got 11 from some other dumb team, the Raptors paid him that to keep him. With the cap going up it won't hamstring them financially. That is why Porn isn't worried.

That's not really the same as comparing it to maxing out Brian Scalibrine who is old and, in all respect to the Red Mamba, sucks.
He's a 25 year old wing player with a skillset that's a dime a dozen.

But at least you are being reasonable with your assessment of slightly paying more. That's not what Porn said though. He started this conversation by telling us that we shouldn't have a negative opinion because it's not our money. Again, if that's his position then he shouldn't have a problem with us paying anybody the max because it's not our money.

That said I don't think this move will "kill the team" financially. A move doesn't have to be apocalyptic for it to be a bad move. I just don't see any reason why we need to lock up an unproven player(not that young, turns 25 in a few months) who had no chance of becoming a starter under our current roster.
 

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He's a 25 year old wing player with a skillset that's a dime a dozen.

But at least you are being reasonable with your assessment of slightly paying more. That's not what Porn said though. He started this conversation by telling us that we shouldn't have a negative opinion because it's not our money. Again, if that's his position then he shouldn't have a problem with us paying anybody the max because it's not our money.

That said I don't think this move will "kill the team" financially. A move doesn't have to be apocalyptic for it to be a bad move. I just don't see any reason why we need to lock up an unproven player(not that young, turns 25 in a few months) who had no chance of becoming a starter under our current roster.
There aren't any other viable options out there right now. If you guys were signing Ross for 33 mil while there was a quality 3 on the market I'd agree, but that player just doesn't exist right now.

Maybe a guy like Toby Harris is available at the deadline, but if that's the case, Ross will be the primary going to Orlando with picks being added to even the deal. Either way, you need him to either be your small forward right now or use him to get a better one in the future. Young athletic players are worth a lot in the league even if they aren't putting up much for stats. If he gets to 27 and he's still putting up the same stats and you guys are stuck with him, I agree with you 100%. Right now at worst though he's quality trade bait.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
There aren't any other viable options out there right now. If you guys were signing Ross for 33 mil while there was a quality 3 on the market I'd agree, but that player just doesn't exist right now.

Maybe a guy like Toby Harris is available at the deadline, but if that's the case, Ross will be the primary going to Orlando with picks being added to even the deal. Either way, you need him to either be your small forward right now or use him to get a better one in the future. Young athletic players are worth a lot in the league even if they aren't putting up much for stats. If he gets to 27 and he's still putting up the same stats and you guys are stuck with him, I agree with you 100%. Right now at worst though he's quality trade bait.
The thing is we don't really need a quality option. We just need a bench wing player that can play 15-20 min a game. We already have Carroll and DeRozan as starters. We have James Johnson who can play the backup 3 and Cory Joseph who can play both guard spots. We still have rookies Delon Wright and Norman Powell that can play both guard spots. This is why I'm frustrated by this signing. We should've waited until the end of the year. If Ross has a breakout year (unlikely since he won't be starting over DeMar or Carroll this year) then we can just match offers in the off season. If he continues to play like before then we just jettison him and go with our younger guys.
 

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The thing is we don't really need a quality option. We just need a bench wing player that can play 15-20 min a game. We already have Carroll and DeRozan as starters. We have James Johnson who can play the backup 3 and Cory Joseph who can play both guard spots. We still have rookies Delon Wright and Norman Powell that can play both guard spots. This is why I'm frustrated by this signing. We should've waited until the end of the year. If Ross has a breakout year (unlikely since he won't be starting over DeMar or Carroll this year) then we can just match offers in the off season. If he continues to play like before then we just jettison him and go with our younger guys.
Considering I forgot about Carroll for some reason, that's fair. Ross should still be your primary backup at the 2 and 3, but it's not like you guys absolutely needed to lock him up.

Best case scenario is show casing him and hoping he plays well, and then packaging him for a better starting power forward.
 

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I'm just really not that bothered about Terrence Ross being signed for 3 years. I'm not sure what else to say.
You could say your normal schtick of "Im a raptors fan and I root for my team! thats what being a fans about no?"
 

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Raptors salary next year will be $72M. Cap is expected to be $70M. I assume with no cap space they figure they might as well use birds rights to re-sign a young player like Ross. Also not sure if he will exercise it, but DeRozan has a player option next year. So, maybe this is a backup option if DeMar decides to opt out and we can't re-sign him.
 
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