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X-Mas Taker
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Its time we mourn over the passing of the passing over B.J. armstrong for the G.M. position. I cant say he was the best man for the job,but he was groomed for the position ,and he would have had to have been better than John paxson who was in my mind mistakenly taken from his analyst position and put in a spot where he has been shown to be basically incompetent.

He signed no one of note in free agency scottie pippen and gill are a waste of 6 million dollars and have produced basically nothing through half of a season.

he drafted kirk but by his own admission he wouldn't have unless jay will had not been hurt , his 2nd round picks didn't make the team and if they couldn't make the team...he should have either drafted someone else or traded the picks instead of wasting them.

his trade of donyell and rose has produced a worse team record % wise despite the fact that the previous coach had to go through a west coast trip that always results in a sweep and the new coach had a very favorable dec. schedule.

he has scapegoated players for flaws he should have known existed all along ...how could he be an on the job general manager and not know his players weren't doing what was needed to succeed ...during which time he was promising playoffs?

i am left at a loss to think of something he's done well and has turned out well since he has been instituted at his current post...that he can be given credit for as an insightful move ...or at least something that has not turned completely to crap.

so i mourn today feb. 2nd for what could have been.
:heart: :heart: :heart:
 

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Paxson has turned the Bulls upside down.

Started from the drafting of Kirk to now the trading of everything we've tried to build over the past few years.

Close minded, leaks everything to the press....

He's a horrible GM.

Look at his offseason signings:

Gill (that worked out well...)
Pippen (he's retiring)
Blount (who's been solid)

Then he:

Cut Trenton Hassell (good job) in favor of Linton Johnson who was cut for Ronald Dupree
Traded away Donyell Marshall (tearing it up for Toronto)

Imagine the Bulls had Paxson just given up Donyell and the 7 for Lamond and the 4...

We'd have Wade and Jamal

I don't understand some of the decisions he makes because they're so stupid.
 

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Hindsite is always 20/20 but that goes for any GM, not just pax.

I will give him time to put together the team he wants in here.
 

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I am not liking this Paxson bashing at all. True he prolly should have made that trade to move up and get Wade. But it is not like he made a bad choice in Kirk. Kirk has been excellent for us. I think the Gill signing has been fine. True he is injured now but when Gill has gotten run he has been very solid. Signing Pippen was as much goodwill as anything. Plus he thought Pippen might turn Jalen around. It did not work, Jalen even got worse. That aint Pip's fault though or Paxsons for that matter. Trading off Rose was something we had to do. Getting AD and JYD in return for Rose and Yell is not nearly as bad as some think. It is the start of Paxson building the team in his image. Lets give him time to see what that vision is before we bash him. He is putting together a puzzle and does not have all the pieces he wants yet.
 

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X-Mas Taker
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
Hindsite is always 20/20 but that goes for any GM, not just pax.

I will give him time to put together the team he wants in here.
hindsight is 20/20 ...but does pax have a good vision of the future?

think about it. He had one notion of what he wanted,which was to build on the foundation of what krause had already started ...and then he decides he now wants a scrappy tough minded bunch...now this would appear to be different from the OKP(our kind of people) approach that krause envisioned which was an ultra talented of good character group that ol' jerry always wanted .

Hindsight ...is one thing but if your vision was never clear in the first place what chance did you have?
 

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Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!


hindsight is 20/20 ...but does pax have a good vision of the future?

think about it. He had one notion of what he wanted,which was to build on the foundation of what krause had already started ...and then he decides he now wants a scrappy tough minded bunch...now this would appear to be different from the OKP(our kind of people) approach that krause envisioned which was an ultra talented of good character group that ol' jerry always wanted .

Hindsight ...is one thing but if your vision was never clear in the first place what chance did you have?
Don't you see why he wanted a scrappy bunch? We were giving 101 pts a game and that amount was rising with every game. This team does scrap and plays harder than the other team did.

I cannot help to think that had Paxson not made the trade and we would be as bad as we are now, some of you guys would post that Paxson had no guts or balls to mold this team in the way he saw fit. Then JK would get dragged back into this. Then Jk's vision would come into play. And people would be down on paxson for following that.

Paxson cannot win any way you look at it! I am willing to wait. I stand by my simple remark above about 20/20. You can take ANYGM in the league and blast him or pick him apart for doing something and not doing something!


Why do we give JK five years and yet we blast Paxson??? I don't get it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
Paxson has articulated a vision.

Curry and Chandler are the two cornerstones of this franchise. This year we will make the playoffs. Jalen Rose must accept a lesser role. No excuses.

that was then ...

what is it now ?

um...there are no untouchables ....its all chandler's and curry's fault for their lack of off season condidtioning ....Rose must accept a lesser role in toronto ...no excuses except for the part about it being C and C's fault why the bulls aren't in the playoffs

it seems to me what he said was a clear vision of the future was nothing of the sort and he quickly looked to scapegoat everyone in his path ....1st a player(rose)then the coach (mr. Bill) and then more players (curry and chandler among others)

aren't the bulls offices at the berto center?...how could not have known all along they weren't in proper shape in regards to curry and chandler amonst others and even if it wasn't dont the bulls work out there with the bulls strength and conditioning coach ?

did pax even make a call during the offseason?

it seems very much to me the car was moving but no one was at the wheel
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!


Don't you see why he wanted a scrappy bunch? We were giving 101 pts a game and that amount was rising with every game. This team does scrap and plays harder than the other team did.

I cannot help to think that had Paxson not made the trade and we would be as bad as we are now, some of you guys would post that Paxson had no guts or balls to mold this team in the way he saw fit. Then JK would get dragged back into this. Then Jk's vision would come into play. And people would be down on paxson for following that.

Paxson cannot win any way you look at it! I am willing to wait. I stand by my simple remark above about 20/20. You can take ANYGM in the league and blast him or pick him apart for doing something and not doing something!


Why do we give JK five years and yet we blast Paxson??? I don't get it.
we give JK 5 years because he gave us 6 titles ...what has pax done to warrant faith?

fire a coach, replace him with one who wins less, trade our fading star for older, lesser talent

the thing is the trade was not for the future it was for now and it didn't work .

how can a team like the cavs do the exact same thing and have it work so well (the GM there by the way answers to the name Pax)

you can make a splash like thomas did in ny too and make deals

i have no problem with a GM who does what he says ...but pax has already changed his story ...made the team older and worse in less than a year's time and screwed up its direction

an article released today stated that the bulls in their lat 10 or so games are losing buy double digits on avg. again ...so where is the improvement ? if you are still losing by slightly less ...but losing slightly more often than before ?
 

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While I agree that Paxson should get more time, I think it will be very telling based on the upcoming trade deadline and this off-season.

As it stands now, Paxson has done a terrible job. However, he wasn't given much time to get in the position before the world crumbled with Jay Williams getting injured, ending ideas of trades.

He blew the Marshall & #7 pick. He blew the Rose trade.

He, like most of us here seems a bit impatient and willing to make a trade for the sake of a trade.

I am hoping that unless he gets a trade that makes us much better for years to come (meaning an established young player who will be a cornerstone for this team for many years), that he shows patience.

Let's all take a deep breath. The Bulls need to regroup, dedicate themselves to an off-season of hardwork and finally coming together as a complete team.

Finally, Paxson can show his GM skills by completing a buy out without Pippen and getting him off the books for next year.
 

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I fail to see how BJ would be doing a better job. He probably still signs Pippen, drafts Pietrus, and keeps the ship together.

With apologies to rlucas, Ronald Dupree has had a better year than Pietrus. Both are rookies, with Dupree being 1 year the older. Speaking of rookies, how is Hinrich doing? He has been the best Bulls rookie since Elton Brand.

Paxson has done an okay hand considering what he was dealt. However blaming him for 2nd round picks and setting an expectation of playoffs isn't ringing too clear in my head. My god, is it too much to expect the 8th seed in the weak East, especially considering those magical 20 games to finish last year?

We brought back essentially the same team, same coach, and our kids were 1 summer, 1 year older. So Pax is blamed for setting the bar too high? Since when is the 8th seed in the East setting too high an expectation?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
While I agree that Paxson should get more time, I think it will be very telling based on the upcoming trade deadline and this off-season.

As it stands now, Paxson has done a terrible job. However, he wasn't given much time to get in the position before the world crumbled with Jay Williams getting injured, ending ideas of trades.

He blew the Marshall & #7 pick. He blew the Rose trade.

He, like most of us here seems a bit impatient and willing to make a trade for the sake of a trade.

I am hoping that unless he gets a trade that makes us much better for years to come (meaning an established young player who will be a cornerstone for this team for many years), that he shows patience.

Let's all take a deep breath. The Bulls need to regroup, dedicate themselves to an off-season of hardwork and finally coming together as a complete team.

Finally, Paxson can show his GM skills by completing a buy out without Pippen and getting him off the books for next year.
the thing is i was willing to give him time , HE SPED UP THE TIMETABLE.

he made trades and free agent signings based on winning now and they have not panned out , he did all this plus trading the only tradable non young players on the roster,but it accomplished nothing , so now he only has 1 option which is to trade youth to get wins now

what else can he do ...trade what he just traded for, or signed to get in williams ,davis, pippen and gill or blount ....these players have no value right now and really only williams and davis will have value again but it will be in the last year of their deals as cap relief and that is a way off so they wont be traded now

so basically all he can do is trade fizer and crawford but everyone in the league knows this is his only option ...so he'll get taken to the woodshed on this if he chooses to do it.

its a helpless position he is in ...and he put himself in it,
and thats why he has failed

the king is sometimes dead long before check mate

so you can wait til the trade deadline or the offseason ..but what can happen ...a buyout for pip that will still count for the coming season so the bulls wont use their MLE for the next year or they risk that luxury tax threshold which i still think reinsdorf wont cross whether or not there will be a luxury tax as it would mean using the MLE 3 years in a row ...which isn't likely as i dont any teams do it ...not even a spend happy team like the mavs or the knicks

so who will the bulls sign of note ...even if the exception were available it would have to be spent on a wing whose team doesn't think he's worthy of the avg. salary in the nba or who is so estranged form his squad he doesn't want to sign with them and then will choose the bulls above anyone else at their current standing in the league which is at the bottom.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
I fail to see how BJ would be doing a better job. He probably still signs Pippen, drafts Pietrus, and keeps the ship together.

With apologies to rlucas, Ronald Dupree has had a better year than Pietrus. Both are rookies, with Dupree being 1 year the older. Speaking of rookies, how is Hinrich doing? He has been the best Bulls rookie since Elton Brand.

Paxson has done an okay hand considering what he was dealt. However blaming him for 2nd round picks and setting an expectation of playoffs isn't ringing too clear in my head. My god, is it too much to expect the 8th seed in the weak East, especially considering those magical 20 games to finish last year?

We brought back essentially the same team, same coach, and our kids were 1 summer, 1 year older. So Pax is blamed for setting the bar too high? Since when is the 8th seed in the East setting too high an expectation?
outside of shooting the starting line-up with a shotgun , i fail to see how he could do worse.

does BJ sign pip ? who knows, somehow i doubt it ... maybe he drafts someone different but chances are jay will makes him do the same thing pax did and draft kirk, then again maybe he doesn't he was a point guard in many ways similar to crawford he may have decided to go a different route ...unlike paxson who has been critical of crawford for years ....maybe he keeps bags or quits over the summer i dont know but everything that pax has done outside of drafting kirk in which his hand was forced on has turned to monkey manure .

i can blame him(pax) for drafting players that had no chance to make the team its not like austin was the 50th pick ...were the bulls so good the 36th pick couldn't make the team . did you know the following 8 picks made their roster ? so why couldn't austin make ours?..because he was a bad pick the bulls didn't need a power forward

there were 3 more small forward drafted in the 2nd round after austin and 2 made their roster kyle korver and james jones ...the one who didn't was tommie smith drafted by paxson

so yes i call his drafting ability into question and his ability to direct his team from the general magangers position
 

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Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!


outside of shooting the starting line-up with a shotgun , i fail to see how he could do worse.

does BJ sign pip ? who knows, somehow i doubt it ... maybe he drafts someone different but chances are jay will makes him do the same thing pax did and draft kirk, then again maybe he doesn't he was a point guard in many ways similar to crawford he may have decided to go a different route ...unlike paxson who has been critical of crawford for years ....maybe he keeps bags or quits over the summer i dont know but everything that pax has done outside of drafting kirk in which his hand was forced on has turned to monkey manure .

i can blame him(pax) for drafting players that had no chance to make the team its not like austin was the 50th pick ...were the bulls so good the 36th pick couldn't make the team . did you know the following 8 picks made their roster ? so why couldn't austin make ours?..because he was a bad pick the bulls didn't need a power forward

there were 3 more small forward drafted in the 2nd round after austin and 2 made their roster kyle korver and james jones ...the one who didn't was tommie smith drafted by paxson

so yes i call his drafting ability into question and his ability to direct his team from the general magangers position

I was under the impression that BJ and Pete Myers were hot for Pietrus, even in the days leading up to the draft. I'm sure Pietrus will have a fine career but like I said before, Ronald Dupree is having a better season. Pietrus still has the Euro-hype, Dupree went undrafted.

I find it hard to fault Pax on the 36th pick on the NBA draft. He inherited 8 signed Krause draft picks (Jay, Jamal, Eddy, Tyson, Marcus, Baxter, Mason jr., Dillybar), 1 team option (Hassell), and lingering Krause signees/tradees (eRob, Marshall, Rose, Blount). There wasn't much wiggle room as it is, especially on a roster full of young players. I'm not shedding any tears for anyone picked after Austin.

If we fault Paxson for one draft's 2nd rounders, how about Krause passing on Arenas, Redd, Manu, Boozer, Watson, Flip in his body of work for 2nd round picks, post MJ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!



I was under the impression that BJ and Pete Myers were hot for Pietrus, even in the days leading up to the draft. I'm sure Pietrus will have a fine career but like I said before, Ronald Dupree is having a better season. Pietrus still has the Euro-hype, Dupree went undrafted.

I find it hard to fault Pax on the 36th pick on the NBA draft. He inherited 8 signed Krause draft picks (Jay, Jamal, Eddy, Tyson, Marcus, Baxter, Mason jr., Dillybar), 1 team option (Hassell), and lingering Krause signees/tradees (eRob, Marshall, Rose, Blount). There wasn't much wiggle room as it is, especially on a roster full of young players. I'm not shedding any tears for anyone picked after Austin.

If we fault Paxson for one draft's 2nd rounders, how about Krause passing on Arenas, Redd, Manu, Boozer, Watson, Flip in his body of work for 2nd round picks, post MJ?
at least krause picks make the team ...you talk up dupree ..but pax only has him due to dumars letting him go ...he either didn't have him on his radar up until about a month ago or has been extreme slow about it

if pax thought so much of him before i would think he would have drafted him(he had ample opportunity).its not like he was so far off the nba radar that no one know about him. he was 7th overall in the nbdl draft

pax inherited 8 picks ...of course he did he inherited a whole team any young team has alot of picks ..which means alot of tradeable assets and also high draft position ...pax got a sweet deal in being ushered in when he did

until paxson can draft a player out of the lotto that can stick on an nba roster ...i find it hard to compare to krause's track record
 

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Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
at least krause picks make the team ...you talk up dupree ..but pax only has him due to dumars letting him go ...he either didn't have him on his radar up until about a month ago or has been extreme slow about it
Krause's picks make the team? This is because he blew up the roster after the dynasty? Hassell and Voskuhl will have nice NBA careers, but they were picked higher than #36 overall. As for El-Amin, Guyton, Lampley, and Lari Ketner, where are they now?

if pax thought so much of him before i would think he would have drafted him(he had ample opportunity).its not like he was so far off the nba radar that no one know about him. he was 7th overall in the nbdl draft
I do credit Paxson for picking up Dupree, because every other GM in the league could have had him this season. There were 3-4 NBDL players who were taken by NBA teams before we signed Dupree to a 10 day.

pax inherited 8 picks ...of course he did he inherited a whole team any young team has alot of picks ..which means alot of tradeable assets and also high draft position ...pax got a sweet deal in being ushered in when he did
Sweet deal, eh? How have these players performed this season?

until paxson can draft a player out of the lotto that can stick on an nba roster ...i find it hard to compare to krause's track record
Wow how about Paxson's lotto picks versus Krause's in his 5 post dynasty seasons? Paxson grades an A+. Oh yeah, we're gonna dwell on middle 2nd round picks. :sleep:
 

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Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!



Wow how about Paxson's lotto picks versus Krause's in his 5 post dynasty seasons? Paxson grades an A+. Oh yeah, we're gonna dwell on middle 2nd round picks. :sleep:
Wow, SuperDave,

I hear ya.....but I'm not buying on this one.

Krause took Brand (when everyone wanted Steve Francis or Lamar Odom - including me) and then grabbed Ron Artest.

Krause made a decision and went after it. He traded Brand (still unbelieveable) for Chandler with the Twin Towers vision.

Paxson came in and......hesitated on a trade to get the guy he reportedly desperately wanted - Dwayne Wade. The cost - Marshall and the Number 7. then, a few months later he gives Marshall to the team that wanted him for baiscally nothing. Yes, Rose was worth AD and Jeffries and change. Marshall was worth more than JYD.

If Krause would've wanted Wade, he would've done the trade.

Paxson deserves more time, but grabbing Hinrich was not a stroke of genius, just a matter of settling for the next best guy.

My how these boards would be flooded if Hinrich hadn't done as good as he has.

I never thought I'd wish to have the other Paxson as my GM......It's starting to creep into my mind.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!

Krause's picks make the team? This is because he blew up the roster after the dynasty? Hassell and Voskuhl will have nice NBA careers, but they were picked higher than #36 overall. As for El-Amin, Guyton, Lampley, and Lari Ketner, where are they now?


I do credit Paxson for picking up Dupree, because every other GM in the league could have had him this season. There were 3-4 NBDL players who were taken by NBA teams before we signed Dupree to a 10 day.


Sweet deal, eh? How have these players performed this season?


Wow how about Paxson's lotto picks versus Krause's in his 5 post dynasty seasons? Paxson grades an A+. Oh yeah, we're gonna dwell on middle 2nd round picks. :sleep:
pax was pretty happy with the hand he was dealt last season ...he's not so happy this year...how is it anyone else's fault but his own?

he was paid to watch the team for years how could he not know the players he was seeing?

it doesn't hold water for me

your argument that krause picks stick because the team was so bad doesn't work for me because the team isn't any better than last year ...in fact its a lil' worse so its not an excuse for pax

you also want to hold krause accountable because he didn't pick up star players in the 2nd round post title years....pax has yet to get a player ... a live body of any kind


the bottom line difference is that every year krause gets someone

pax had 3 chances and left with no one ...dupree the jury is out on him still he is for sure out his league as a starter or at least not ready


as for JK's lotto picks vs. pax's how many out of JC fizer Tc ,EC, brand or jay will (without injury) would get traded even up for kirk today or in the future ?

chances are only fizer and thats 5 out of 6 ...that pretty good for krause
 

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Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!


pax was pretty happy with the hand he was dealt last season ...he's not so happy this year...how is it anyone else's fault but his own?

he was paid to watch the team for years how could he not know the players he was seeing?
so i guess everything CAN change in the blink of an eye. isn't pax on the record as saying he had hoped the 3 C's would have made some strides last summer with their conditioning and approach to the fundamentals of the game and that he was dissapointed in their lack of effort. come on.

they - the players, not the GM, not the coach - have no one to blame but themselves for the situation they find themselves in.
 

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Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!


pax was pretty happy with the hand he was dealt last season ...he's not so happy this year...how is it anyone else's fault but his own?

he was paid to watch the team for years how could he not know the players he was seeing?

it doesn't hold water for me

your argument that krause picks stick because the team was so bad doesn't work for me because the team isn't any better than last year ...in fact its a lil' worse so its not an excuse for pax

you also want to hold krause accountable because he didn't pick up star players in the 2nd round post title years....pax has yet to get a player ... a live body of any kind


the bottom line difference is that every year krause gets someone

pax had 3 chances and left with no one ...dupree the jury is out on him still he is for sure out his league as a starter or at least not ready


as for JK's lotto picks vs. pax's how many out of JC fizer Tc ,EC, brand or jay will (without injury) would get traded even up for kirk today or in the future ?

chances are only fizer and thats 5 out of 6 ...that pretty good for krause
What exactly are you arguing again? That Paxson failed with as a GM because none of his 2nd round draft picks stuck on a team with 12-13 guaranteed salaries which he inherited?... 8 of these being on rookie contracts?

Paxson returned essentially the same team from last years magical 20 games, added Pippen and Gill, resigned Blount, drafted Hinrich, kept Cartwright, and poised the Bulls for what most thought was a playoff birth in the East. It wasn't only Paxson who took the bait on our young players improving, it was the casual fan (you), writers, coaches, all around the league.

Paxson was playing the cards that Jerry K dealt him. He gave it a shot, it didn't work, and now he's forming the team to what he wants. Again, this will take more than 9 months for him to clean up Jerry's mess ;)
 
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