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Discussion Starter #1
I'm soooo tired of the trade Fizer...Tyson is the future crap. Who was the better PF last year? Honestly? I know we traded Brand for this guy and I still don't like the trade, but that's spilled milk. Tyson is a good kid and all but to want to trade Fizer and GIVE the starting spot to him is crazy. He's only 19 I know but he is as raw as they come and he has no game to speak of. We want to win and I don't think Tyson the cheerleader is the answer. Hell Baxter looks like a better pro already! He may get better but without any offensive game to speak of at this point I don't feel like waiting for this guy to mature in 4 yrs. At least give us something now TC. 2 blks.....5fls and 7 pts should be more than what you want from your starting PF of the future right? I'll take Fizer any day of the week over TC. Take the goggles off, he is not the answer. Also he is NOT a great defender, he gets toooooo many fouls and gets posted easily. Starting lineup should be.......

Pg Crawford
Sg Hassell
Sf Rose
Pf Fizer
C Curry

Let the best players play now! F the "coulda......woulda....might be crap!




Chase
 

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I'd trade Fizer for a future #1 and a warm vet with only a year or 2 on their contract in a NY minute. Baxter is much more able to replace Fizer than Fizer able to replace Brand.

We have way too many young guys on the team that are still trying to prove themselves and think they will be All-Pro some day.

Over the next 12 months, Krause really needs to start ejecting some of the young kids.
 

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Sorry chase, gotta disagree.

First things first, don't bank everything on one summer league performance. TC actually did a nice job on Gooden, held him to like 4 points (he was averaging 21ppg, the most in summer league). Summer league is glorified NBDL... it gives us a look but just a taste.

Anyone that watched Chandler last season saw flashes of greatness. His defense and rebounding is already ahead of Fizer, and that means a lot. In my mind, that's exactly what a PF should do in the NBA.

This being said, Fizer has shown some nice offensive moves, and did some nice things last season off the bench. But he's still lost on D and doesn't rebound well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dogging Fizer.. but at best he's an offensive PF (ala Rodney Rodgers or Corliss Williamson) whereas Chandler has an extremely high ceiling. Chandler has a good chance at being great, not just decent like Fizer. Don't judge him by one summer league game. He's shown enough last season for any reasonable Bulls fan to know this.

Peace,

VD
 

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I can see us late in the game doing offensive/defensive switches with Fizer and Baxter if TC is in foul trouble... Fizer in for offense, Baxter in for defense... but Baxter has shown offensive ability too... and he is HUGE!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Why Chandler's ceiling higher than Fizer....because he is younger?
Fizer can get better on defense......defense can be learned. He is stronger....better offensively.....and young.
 

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Originally posted by Ceochase
Why Chandler's ceiling higher than Fizer....because he is younger?
Because he's younger, yes. But more importantly because he's taller-- much taller-- and more athletic.
 

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Originally posted by Kneepad

Because he's younger, yes. But more importantly because he's taller-- much taller-- and more athletic.
Completely agree.

Added to that, Chandler has shown a knack for the ball, which really cannot be taught. When is the last time you saw Fizer block a shot? OR get a key rebound? Exactly. The first never happens and at this point you are more likely to see Fred Hoiberg grab a key rebound.

To better explain the 'knack' for the ball idea.. defense can always be improved upon (like any other aspect) but few can be really good. Fizer simply does not have the lateral speed and hops to defend the PF in the NBA. Plus, Chandler has those long arms that cause havoc for anyone in the lane. He's shown flashes (ie. blocking Shaq 2x in a game, grabbing monster boards) and is only getting better.

VD
 

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Discussion Starter #9
So i guess his lack of offense isn't an issue? My point is he can be an energy guy off the bench....ala Junk Yard Dog, but I really doubt he will develop the game that Fizer has now. Either you have it or you don't, I don't want to be hard on the guy because he may someday develop an offensive game, but I'm not willing to wait 4 years for him to get there. I want to at least be respectable now and the best way to get near that level is start Fizer and give TC 15-20 minutes a game.
 

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Originally posted by Ceochase
So i guess his lack of offense isn't an issue? My point is he can be an energy guy off the bench....ala Junk Yard Dog, but I really doubt he will develop the game that Fizer has now. Either you have it or you don't, I don't want to be hard on the guy because he may someday develop an offensive game, but I'm not willing to wait 4 years for him to get there. I want to at least be respectable now and the best way to get near that level is start Fizer and give TC 15-20 minutes a game.
You are right when you say Fizer may be further along offensively. But what the Bulls need is a high energy PF who can board, block shots, run the floor, and give some offense as well. Chandler fits that description and is already our best low-post defender, hands down. And he's getting better.

Giving Fizer major minutes is a problem. Rose is already a liability on defense, add to that foul-prone Curry and a backcourt who can't defend the picknroll or stop penetration... and you have problems. Having Fizer as PF just magnifies that.

If you don't believe me, ask Coach Cartwright. He, as many other Bulls fans, sees a spark in TC and will reward his energy and D with major minutes this season.

VD
 

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I agree that Chandler has little or no offensive game at this point, but there was another skinny young 7-footer with little offense who came into the league in 1991 and went on to become an all-star-Dikembe Mutumbo. Mutumbo has never averaged more than 16.6 ppg (and has usually been closer to 10-12 ppg), but is a classic intimidator and has the ability to change a game with his D. Chandler is even more mobile and athletic than Mutumbo was as a rookie, and he's shown the makings of a decent mid-range J, something Mutumbo never had. As far as Chandler being the next Garnett or Wallace, i don't think he's that type of player, but the next Mutumbo? I could really see that. And by the way, I'd trade Elton Brand for a young Mutumbo any day.
 

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yeah whatever

How old is Baxter? How long has he been playing ball? Exactly..... How long did it take Kobe, or Garnett, or ANY kid out of High School to develop? I mean TC would be a SOPHOMORE IN COLLEGE! It generally takes time for GOOD big men to develop their game in College let alone the NBA. Man, take your Ritalin and be MORE PATIENT! A 19 year old kid is NOT going to do something special for your team after playing one stinking year in the NBA. I'm telling you guys now, that TC WILL be a Hall of Famer!

:yes:
 

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Agreed. Chandler may well be one of the greatest defensive intimdators the game has ever seen (other than the Stilt, name one 7'2 player with his quickness and athleticism), and any offensive contributions he makes will be bonus.
 
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