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I also find it funny that Thibs tenure has been heavily questioned/scrutinized for years now and yet Doc Rivers continues to get a pass by the media. Goes to show you that the Bulls front office has done a better job of getting their side of the story out there than Thibs.

Thibs may be a complete weirdo, but hes been nothing but a pro since being HC. He easily could have gone to the media and put Garpax on blast, he EASILY could have and justifiably so lean on the fact that hes consistently coached injured teams in the playoffs. But no. Hes never leaned on any excuses.

Do your job was his motto, and he never stopped doing his. Even when his players and front office did.

Good luck to Thibs and I hope he finally coaches the superstar he deserves. Thibs with the Cavs would be epic.
 

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I also find it funny that Thibs tenure has been heavily questioned/scrutinized for years now and yet Doc Rivers continues to get a pass by the media. Goes to show you that the Bulls front office has done a better job of getting their side of the story out there than Thibs.

Thibs may be a complete weirdo, but hes been nothing but a pro since being HC. He easily could have gone to the media and put Garpax on blast, he EASILY could have and justifiably so lean on the fact that hes consistently coached injured teams in the playoffs. But no. Hes never leaned on any excuses.

Do your job was his motto, and he never stopped doing his. Even when his players and front office did.

Good luck to Thibs and I hope he finally coaches the superstar he deserves. Thibs with the Cavs would be epic.
He did go to the media and put them on blast... Jeff Van Gundy was happy to oblige.
 

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I also find it funny that Thibs tenure has been heavily questioned/scrutinized for years now and yet Doc Rivers continues to get a pass by the media. Goes to show you that the Bulls front office has done a better job of getting their side of the story out there than Thibs.

Thibs may be a complete weirdo, but hes been nothing but a pro since being HC. He easily could have gone to the media and put Garpax on blast, he EASILY could have and justifiably so lean on the fact that hes consistently coached injured teams in the playoffs. But no. Hes never leaned on any excuses.

Do your job was his motto, and he never stopped doing his. Even when his players and front office did.

Good luck to Thibs and I hope he finally coaches the superstar he deserves. Thibs with the Cavs would be epic.
If anything, it's Thibodeau who gets a pass from the media. The media is exceedingly kind to Thibs. Look no further than Adrian Wojnarowski and Jeff Van Gundy. Those guys are publicly slanting the Bulls front office as a Dr. Evil organization while Thibs is the good old boy who just wants to do his job well, but the mean old Bulls management won't let him. Please. It is true the Chicago beat writers have to keep a pro-front office spin, but even they tend to write about these topics in a non-controversial tone that avoids berating Thibs. Most commentary articles refer to Thibodeau as an "elite coach" too.

Thibodeau has a stellar work ethic, I don't deny that as he works 24-7 at his craft, but he also takes subtle actions that cross the line into unprofessionalism, IMO. A true professional will adhere to his leadership's requests, at least when they are reasonable requests like hiring an offensive oriented assistant coach or keeping certain guys' minutes in line. Why Thibodeau had to make a stink about these sorts of issues is ridiculous when they were clearly needed; even we as fans could see it, why couldn't Thibs? Because he is stubborn as they come.

Also I'm not about to credit him for opting not to publicly criticize his leadership, LOL. That is a legitimate sure-fire way to get fired in any organization, sports or not. Pretty much the golden rule of keeping your job.
 

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If anything, it's Thibodeau who gets a pass from the media. The media is exceedingly kind to Thibs. Look no further than Adrian Wojnarowski and Jeff Van Gundy. Those guys are publicly slanting the Bulls front office as a Dr. Evil organization while Thibs is the good old boy who just wants to do his job well, but the mean old Bulls management won't let him. Please. It is true the Chicago beat writers have to keep a pro-front office spin, but even they tend to write about these topics in a non-controversial tone that avoids berating Thibs. Most commentary articles refer to Thibodeau as an "elite coach" too.

Thibodeau has a stellar work ethic, I don't deny that as he works 24-7 at his craft, but he also takes subtle actions that cross the line into unprofessionalism, IMO. A true professional will adhere to his leadership's requests, at least when they are reasonable requests like hiring an offensive oriented assistant coach or keeping certain guys' minutes in line. Why Thibodeau had to make a stink about these sorts of issues is ridiculous when they were clearly needed; even we as fans could see it, why couldn't Thibs? Because he is stubborn as they come.

Also I'm not about to credit him for opting not to publicly criticize his leadership, LOL. That is a legitimate sure-fire way to get fired in any organization, sports or not. Pretty much the golden rule of keeping your job.
no its the FO that gets the pass .

very few people in front offices can physically attack someone that is a subordinate and keep their job, that is an offense that gets virtually everyone fired , and in sports especially which is a very public job i can think of no one who has engaged in tie-gate or a similar offense and not had only kept his job but with no significant repercussions.

when thibs doesn't something like that and nothing comes of it or anyone else for that matter and gets away scott free i'll reconsider my position.

there is the nearly killing of luol deng with a spinal tap

playing asik on a broken leg.

the pre thib record of 274-298

dna gate

more than one person has put forth the theory that the bulls FO uses the medical staff in ways that are unethical.

the getting into the same problem with thibodeau as they did with del negro over noah's minutes which are btw at the coach's discretion as minutes and strategy always are especially when a coach is established and experienced as thibs clearly is.

every couple of years there is a serious thing that paints the bulls org. as a top to bottom as a dysfunctional place to work that places the bulls at a supreme disadvantage when its time to get free agents that the bulls are seemingly always pining to get but never acquire.

in a player's league they are awkwardly fascist, in their minds visionary but reaching for things they shouldn't...and yes its not covered by the media but the players see it and that among other reasons is why they dont get the superstar every couple of years when they sell the fans on another rebuild for a player they have to know wont come.
 

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I also find it funny that Thibs tenure has been heavily questioned/scrutinized for years now and yet Doc Rivers continues to get a pass by the media. Goes to show you that the Bulls front office has done a better job of getting their side of the story out there than Thibs.
Weird. I have seen a lot of Doc criticism this season, so I'm not sure where this sentiment is coming from. Maybe you don't notice it as much as you don't live in the LA market?


Thibs may be a complete weirdo, but hes been nothing but a pro since being HC. He easily could have gone to the media and put Garpax on blast, he EASILY could have and justifiably so lean on the fact that hes consistently coached injured teams in the playoffs. But no. Hes never leaned on any excuses.

Do your job was his motto, and he never stopped doing his. Even when his players and front office did.
The one thing nobody will ever accuse Thibs of is lacking a work ethic. He clearly puts his job above everything else in life. So, that's great and all, but the question is whether he can be an effective coach for the Bulls moving forward, not whether he's a "pro" or relies on excuses, etc.
 

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no its the FO that gets the pass .

very few people in front offices can physically attack someone that is a subordinate and keep their job, that is an offense that gets virtually everyone fired , and in sports especially which is a very public job i can think of no one who has engaged in tie-gate or a similar offense and not had only kept his job but with no significant repercussions.

when thibs doesn't something like that and nothing comes of it or anyone else for that matter and gets away scott free i'll reconsider my position.
This is Paxson's biggest mistake since joining the front office. He was lucky to not lose his job, but I wouldn't say he got off easy.

there is the nearly killing of luol deng with a spinal tap

playing asik on a broken leg.
These had nothing to do with the Bulls front office. Deng was in a public hospital for a medical condition unrelated to basketball. Asik had an issue that went undetected by an MRI. Unless Paxson or Gar like to screen MRIs in their spare time.

the pre thib record of 274-298
After inheriting what exactly in 2003? And are you implying the Thibodeau era shouldn't count for some reason? Why not?

Cracking that open? Everyone acted within their rights on this thing and had good reason to do so. When a world renowned doctor tells you a DNA test can help inform whether a player should be playing professional basketball, I'm going to insist it's a good idea to take the damn test. Let's also not forget Paxson offered Eddy Curry a generous package if he failed the DNA test -- $500k per year for the rest of his life. Sign me up for that! Of course Eddy Curry declined the offer and maintained his rights, which is fine. Nobody got hurt in the end which is lucky as far as I'm concerned.

more than one person has put forth the theory that the bulls FO uses the medical staff in ways that are unethical.
"Put forth the theory" is a long shot from actual evidence. There was of course the Luol Deng leg fracture that was misdiagnosed a few years back, and yes the Bulls botched that one by taking the side of the doctor over how they player felt. I don't see many examples beyond that. If anything, they have leveraged the medical staff and Jen Swanson to overly protect players' health the past 2 seasons, not the other way around.

the getting into the same problem with thibodeau as they did with del negro over noah's minutes which are btw at the coach's discretion as minutes and strategy always are especially when a coach is established and experienced as thibs clearly is.
The minutes limit should be up to the medical & training staff -- and it was in both of these cases, hence why there was dispute when the coach challenged it in some way. Either a player should be playing without restriction, playing with some restriction (minutes limit), or not playing at all. The training staff makes that decision. Even when a player is unrestricted, it doesn't mean it's a good decision to play that player as many minutes as you want, even if it's within his right to do so. It's not a stretch to believe Noah's physical decline this season was related to the large minutes he was playing the previous 2 seasons; a bad idea given his style of play going 100% effort all the time. And Noah's decline clearly hurt the Bulls badly in the playoffs; possibly cost a trip to the EC finals, or perhaps even the NBA Finals, assuming we might've had the Noah we saw last year rather than the one we actually got this year.

every couple of years there is a serious thing that paints the bulls org. as a top to bottom as a dysfunctional place to work that places the bulls at a supreme disadvantage when its time to get free agents that the bulls are seemingly always pining to get but never acquire.
This just reemphasizes my claim above....The media is always ready and willing to viciously jump on the Bulls organization when there are issues. And for the record I am not claiming (not even close) the Bulls front office never makes mistakes, in fact I just cited a few in this post alone. However I am claiming the national media will always jump on those mistakes at a moment's notice and blow them up into a thing. I have suspected for years the media has a particular dislike for the Bulls organization due to Reinsdorf's unwillingness to cooperate with certain media outlets. There are accounts this sort of things happens, for example this article on how Wojnarowski gets his info by slanting pieces for/against certain teams in exchange for insider information: http://www.newrepublic.com/article/120572/adrian-wojnarowski-how-basketballs-reporting-machine-gets-his-scoops

in a player's league they are awkwardly fascist, in their minds visionary but reaching for things they shouldn't...and yes its not covered by the media but the players see it and that among other reasons is why they dont get the superstar every couple of years when they sell the fans on another rebuild for a player they have to know wont come.
This is being a tad bit dramatic, don't you think? Why ignore all the former players with nothing but love for the Bulls organization. I am not trying to paint the front office as a bunch of saints by any stretch, in fact I strongly suspect Gar Forman is a POS in alot of ways. But there are two sides to this, and the overall point here is the media slants heavily in one direction. In a league full of inflated egos and the harsh business pros sports typically is, there is plenty of blame to go around when these debacles happen.
 

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To be fair, the Bulls had nothing to do with this one. Lu wasn't under the care of a team physician for the meningitis issue.
luol deng does blame them one would have to assume he knows who's guilty and they have 15 practicing doctors in their staff and why have that many if you option out care.

also the bulls doctors did diagnose him with meningitis for which he was given that spinal tap that nearly killed him....a major problem since he did not have it.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
The completely unnecessary veiled blasting by Reinsdorf was the cherry on the shit flavored sunday that was this Thibs vs Garpax situation.
 

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http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/12890745/tom-thibodeau-tenure-chicago-bulls

April 16, 2014 -- Gar loses patience

It's the last game of the regular season, and the Chicago Bulls are in Charlotte, North Carolina. Injured, Derrick Rose watches from the bench in a sharp gray suit. But the remaining Bulls turn in a gritty effort, typical of the Thibodeau era, building a 10-point second-quarter lead over the team then still known as the Bobcats.

As the home team rallies, and the lead changes hands -- seven times before the final buzzer -- Thibodeau rides his best players for long minutes, and it almost pays off. Taj Gibson misses a shot in the closing seconds that might have won it.

Instead, the game goes to overtime and the Bobcats race away with it, creating a lasting memory for the home fans assembled in Time Warner Cable Arena.

In a premium seat in the arena's lower level, Gar Forman had steam coming out of his ears.

This, of all games, most perfectly demonstrates what it is that Thibodeau doesn't believe in.

As a defensive innovator who changed the league, won coach of the year and has a 65 percent career winning percentage -- decimal points behind Red Auerbach -- Thibodeau trails only Phil Jackson as the best coach in Chicago Bulls history. The defense-first, selfless and tough-as-nails Bulls have an identity that matters for the first time since MJ left.
May 2, 2014 -- The whiff of a rift

ESPN.com reports that the Los Angeles Lakers plan to ask the Bulls for permission to interview Thibodeau for their open coaching position (which ultimately would go to Byron Scott).

It struck many as outlandish from afar but seemed less so up close. The Bulls had let Thibodeau's trusted assistant Ron Adams go after the 2012-13 season. He's now leading the Warriors' league-best defense. And privately, the Bulls were miffed that it had taken Thibodeau almost seven months to actually sign the four-year extension that was announced during media day at the beginning of that 2012-13 season.

The 2014 draft combine happened to be going on in Chicago, bringing with it an assembly of media. Instead of defusing the speculation, Thibodeau, Forman and Paxson declined to address the report. The Bulls believed they had said what they needed to say by giving Thibodeau the four-year extension.

The Lakers never pushed hard, given the fact that, like many around the league, they felt the compensation to get Thibodeau would be too steep to get the Bulls to allow Thibodeau out of his contract. The story eventually disappeared, but the way it was handled was telling.

Summer 2014 -- The edict

Thibodeau never subscribed to the notion of resting players for the sake of resting them, believing that players prepare themselves for the grind of the season, a lesson he learned, at least in part, from one of his coaching mentors -- Jeff Van Gundy. He also believed that games were never fully in control, and usually scoffed at the feeling that players should be taken out of games that appeared to be blowouts, even when Noah and Rose were both coming off major injuries.

That's why Forman and Paxson came to Thibodeau last summer with an edict: Neither Rose nor Noah was to play more than 32 minutes per game this season.

"We meet with our medical staff headed by Brian Cole, Jeff Tanaka, Jennifer Swanson," Forman explained months later during a pregame interview on Comcast SportsNet Chicago. "And again if you look historically there's not an exact number you can put on it, but there have been enough studies that have shown when you became fatigued you become more susceptible to injuries and we wanted to do that with guys who were coming off surgeries. Derrick was coming off one; Joakim was coming off one; and Kirk [Hinrich], who's been banged up off and on the last couple years. Again, the reason for it, our players' health is what's most important, and we want to look at our players' health as you go through a six-, seven-month season, both short term and long term, to try and put them and us in the best possible position to succeed."

It wasn't as if Thibodeau hadn't seen all the numbers. Nobody studied harder, nobody had watched more tape, nobody knew his team better than the 57-year-old coach. He was confident in the belief that after nearly three decades in the NBA he knew exactly how he wanted to pace his team. As he would point out later in the season, Rose wasn't playing huge minutes during his first attempted return during the 2013-14 season, averaging just 31.1 minutes a game, and that was without a restriction.

The common theme from Thibodeau supporters being: Were the Bulls really running out of gas or was Thibodeau just having to use his players more than he would have liked on teams that weren't that deep?

The counter argument from Forman and Paxson supporters is that Thibodeau should have been using younger players like Tony Snell, Doug McDermott and Butler earlier than he did in seasons past to build up their confidence.

Either way, for the first time Thibodeau didn't get to make his own decisions. He made his displeasure known throughout the season.
Strong start

The Bulls started off the 2014-2015 regular season in style. They had championship expectations with Rose back in the fold -- bolstered by the belief that their roster was deeper than it had been in years. Forman and Paxson had found players such as Butler and European sensation Nikola Mirotic (with the help of Director of International Scouting Ivica Dukan) late in the first round of the NBA draft. After missing out on Carmelo Anthony in free agency during the summer, the Bulls made a hard, and successful, push to sign veteran Pau Gasol. It gave the organization the type of back-to-the-basket scorer Chicago had hoped Carlos Boozer would be during Thibodeau's first season.

After all the consternation regarding the minutes limit on Rose and Noah, the irony was that Rose missed eight of the first 13 games because of ankle injuries anyway. And yet the Bulls bolted out of the gates. Gasol says he felt rejuvenated in Chicago and was racking up double-doubles almost every night. Butler, who had turned down an extension before the season, took his game to new heights, showing a newly developed offensive prowess. The defense wasn't what it had been, but nevertheless the team won 25 of its first 35, culminating in an early January win over the Rockets.

The good times wouldn't last, though.
Jan. 19, 2015 -- 'Everybody has to be on the same page'

The Bulls followed up the win over the Rockets with a blowout loss -- at home -- to the lowly Utah Jazz two nights later. The Bulls would lose six out of eight, including an embarrassing 121-114 home loss to the Orlando Magic. A much-anticipated road game against the Cavaliers on Jan. 19 ended with a 108-94 loss to the Cavaliers.

"Everybody has to be on the same page," Rose said after the game. "Until then, we're going to continue to get our ass kicked."

When asked who wasn't on the same page, Rose responded quickly.

"It's just the whole team," he said.

The Bulls didn't have the type of energy and fire that had become a defining characteristic of Thibodeau's teams over the years. The Bulls looked unhappy on the floor. The consistent play and spirit that they thrived on was missing. Their defense was porous; the Bulls gave up an average of 103.75 points a game in this stretch.

"I remember one day we were working out at the Berto Center and Thibs was putting me through a real grueling workout and I told him, 'You know, Thibs? If we weren't winning games, I would really, really hate you.' And he said, 'Trust me, Jo. I feel the same way about you.'"
Joakim Noah

Over the years, some players had been open about the fact that Thibodeau runs a tighter ship than normal. At his defensive player of the year news conference, Noah famously said: "I remember one day we were working out at the Berto Center and Thibs was putting me through a real grueling workout and I told him, 'You know, Thibs? If we weren't winning games, I would really, really hate you.' And he said, 'Trust me, Jo. I feel the same way about you.' "

The difference this season was that any negative feelings the Bulls might have had toward their coach were always overlooked because this group continued to find ways to win. The team carried out Thibodeau's message, day after day.

But as the Bulls sputtered midway through this season, the difference in demeanor was palpable.

Thibodeau's problem was no longer just in differences with Forman and Paxson, He now had to deal with lingering frustrations from within his locker room. Players always respected Thibodeau for his work ethic, but his team -- and, more important, the league -- had changed in the past five years. Players watched as teams such as the Spurs ran their program with players playing lighter minutes, and in some cases sitting out games to rest, in preparation of the playoffs. Thibodeau is a huge fan of Spurs coach Popovich and has repeatedly called the Spurs the "gold standard" of the NBA. But he is always quick to point out that when Spurs big man Tim Duncan was in his mid-20s he was playing upward of 40 minutes a game. Of course that was before the sports science was as convincing. In more recent times, Duncan has played fewer minutes than almost any player of his caliber. And teams like the Atlanta Hawks (led by Popovich disciple Mike Budenholzer) and the Golden State Warriors (led by former Bull and Spur Steve Kerr) have taken a "less is more" approach -- playing their best players no more than 32-33 minutes most nights.

After five years of long minutes under Thibodeau, players appeared to have a pattern of giving their all every night, then hitting a wall in the middle of the season. From the beginning of training camp, Noah and Rose wouldn't openly criticize Thibodeau, but they did speak often about using the regular season as preparation for the postseason.

There were good reasons for the players to at least tacitly support Thibodeau in public. Nobody has publicly defended Rose more in the past three years than Thibodeau. Noah became DPOY and an MVP candidate under Thibodeau's watch. Butler had gone from a little-used reserve to an All-Star in four years under Thibodeau. Gasol had been with the team for about six months and didn't have the clout within the locker room, even if he felt so compelled.
Christian Petersen/Getty Images
Jan. 20, 2015 -- The team meeting

After Rose's comments, Thibodeau called for practice the next day. The players had come off four games in six days and had been expecting a day off.

And then, in a most unusual maneuver, unprecedented in the Thibodeau era, the practice was called off just a few hours before it was set to begin. Something was going on.

Players came into the Advocate Center anyway. They shot around. Sources say the front office pushed for a team meeting, which Thibodeau ultimately agreed to.

Gasol noted later that "everybody had a chance to speak, pretty much. I think Coach encouraged everyone to speak and share their thoughts, and I think that's important. Everyone has to participate and give his output, and I gave mine just like everybody else did."

The Chicago Tribune initially reported on the meeting the day it happened. Thibodeau was evidently angry it had become public, and by the next day was already chiding reporters about it.

"It was a meeting about where we are," Thibodeau said. "To talk about how we can make it better. So that's what the meeting -- I don't know what your sources are telling you, but your sources are wrong."

Veteran NBA writer Chris Sheridan had reported around that time that Thibodeau had lost his team and his job "was on the line." The tension was palpable within the organization, and Thibodeau was at a crossroads with his team and with the organization. Either they were going to come together and fight their way out of this predicament or they were going to split for good.

Two of the Bulls' best wins of the season followed. First the Bulls beat the NBA champion Spurs at home, then the Mavericks on the road. And there were signs the team meeting might have gotten to the coach, just a bit. He listened to the comments of his group and was noticeably less demonstrative toward his players in the next few games. Another subtle change: After the meeting, Thibodeau held an unthinkably brief 75-minute practice before the San Antonio game, one that included a five-on-five scrimmage, according to one source, something that Thibodeau didn't usually do a lot of during his in-season practice time over the years.

The succinct nature of the Jan. 21 practice was notable only because Thibodeau was such a creature of habit. Practices, especially after an off day, almost always ran well more than an hour and a half, sometimes two. Shootarounds almost always ran at least an hour on game days. Although both Thibodeau and his players have acknowledged over the years that practices and shootarounds weren't always about physical activity, the time spent in the gym was a sore spot for some players who know players on other teams enjoyed much more down time.

After one practice during Thibodeau's first season, former Bulls forward Luol Deng told a story about the coach that has always defined his tenure with the team.

"I came in here, and I thought no one was in here," Deng said. "And I tried to just get a few shots up, and he came down [from his office]. And he put me through one of the toughest workouts I've ever done. That's when I knew it was going to be no joke. And I had to make sure I was in shape for training camp."

Deng admitted that his teammates had all called one another about their intense new coach.

"Every time I come in, his light is on," Deng said. "The video guys, the coaches, it's been one of those years. It's just every time I came in, I get on the floor, someone is ready to come down, and that's something that he made sure everyone is doing. I don't know if he gets here at 5 or 6 [in the morning], but he's here early and he's the last one to leave."

Four years later, things had changed. One of Thibodeau's favorites, Deng had been traded out of Chicago -- with at least one scouting report saying Thibodeau and the Bulls had run the former All-Star "into the ground" because of all the minutes he had played.

For the core group that remained, listening to Thibodeau bark orders in Year 1 for a hungry team is one thing, but times had changed and the Bulls were older now. They still wanted to win just as badly, but it was the delivery of the same message -- by the same leader -- that didn't appear to always be getting through. Still, the Bulls never completely quit on their coach, in part because they knew he was still putting in more time than anyone else. They knew that light was always on. The players were also playing for one another; they didn't want to give up on what they all believed could be a championship season.

"Thibs was a big part of our team, truthfully," Paul Pierce said, looking back on the time Thibodeau was an assistant coach with the title-winning Celtics. "You learn his passion, man. His defensive techniques he gave us. I think he really started a defensive mentality in me with his presence when he was in Boston. ... He loves the game, man. He loves the game. He'll work 24/7 to give you the best."
Jan. 23, 2015 -- Van Gundy goes off

In a nationally televised Bulls-Mavericks game, ESPN's Jeff Van Gundy, a close friend and confidant of Thibodeau's, dropped a bomb on Forman and Paxson:

"He came to the Bulls at a time when mediocrity reigned," Van Gundy said of Thibodeau. "They had struggled for a long time; they're basically a .500 team. And along with the emergence of some players, he's taken them to elite status. And I think right now it's almost criminal ... in basketball terms, what he's having to endure with some of the fringe media. Attacking his job status, attacking his personality. And this isn't new to Chicago Bulls basketball. All the way back to Phil Jackson, the team has publicly supported their coach, while privately, oftentimes undermined that same person. You saw it with Vinny Del Negro, Scott Skiles. Think about it, they ran Phil Jackson out after winning all those championships -- and I think it's wrong. I think it's wrong for the town; I think it's wrong for the team; and it certainly has not been fair to Tom Thibodeau."
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Van Gundy continued: "Listen, I read every Chicago story. And there is no doubt that the Bulls' organization has the media, with a few exceptions, in their hip pocket. And for whatever reasons, they have taken their sights on Thibodeau, when all he's done is deliver greatness here in his five years."

When word got back to Forman, who was with the team in Dallas, about what Van Gundy had said on the air, the general manager was so angered that he confronted the former coach at the game, in what sources said was an expletive-filled exchange between the two men.

Van Gundy later told Chicago media writer Ed Sherman that, among other things, Forman had "called me a bunch of names," and that Thibodeau's representatives had asked him to tone things down. Van Gundy insisted both publicly and privately that he was not speaking for Thibodeau, but the widespread belief within the Bulls' organization was that that was precisely what he was doing.
Jan. 29, 2015: 'Next question'

After a Jan. 25 loss to the Miami Heat, Thibodeau told Chicago reporters that Van Gundy didn't speak for him, but by that point the damage was done and the gloves -- on both sides -- were off.

The environment within the organization was toxic at this point. The team was still having relative success on the floor, but it was at this point that players and those close to them became acutely aware of just how bad the relationship was between their coach and the front office. The Bulls' dirty laundry was out in the open for the league to see, and speculation increased about Thibodeau's future.

Following the unpredictable trend the Bulls had set for themselves throughout the season, they won an overtime thriller on the road against the Warriors on Jan. 27. What happened before a Jan. 29 shootaround on the UCLA campus offered another glimpse into the deteriorating nature of the relationship between Thibodeau and Forman and Paxson.

When asked about the speculation regarding his relationship with the front office, Thibodeau brushed off the question before it could even be finished.

"I'm not getting into any of that stuff," he said. "I'm just worried about what we have to do. I'm not going to comment on all this rumor stuff and all that nonsense. Just get ready for the next game."

When asked whether he would answer a question regarding his working relationship with the front office, Thibodeau wouldn't bite.

"Next question," he said.

The Bulls would go on to lose later that night to a struggling Lakers squad, followed by a loss the next night to the Phoenix Suns. The up-and-down play continued before a four-game winning streak dovetailed into the All-Star break, culminating in a nice win over LeBron and the Cleveland Cavaliers on Feb. 12. The Bulls were 34-20 -- Rose had just played one of his best games in several years, scoring 30 points and dishing out seven assists -- and feeling confident about their chances despite all the craziness behind the scenes.
Feb. 13, 2015 -- All-Star

"I think it was just as hard on us as it was for [Thibs], to tell you the truth," Butler said of the Bulls' midseason struggles at his first All-Star news conference, the day after the Cavs game. "He continually sent the message of, 'We know what [the problem] is, we see it continuously every game, so let's change it,' and we finally decided to. So now I think -- I wouldn't say he's back to smiling, but he's back to [being] Thibs."

As had become the norm in the regular season, the good times didn't last. Rose missed the first practice after the All-Star break, frustrating both Thibodeau and the front office. He played poorly in a Feb. 20 loss to the Detroit Pistons and had to go in for a meniscectomy Feb. 27 after an MRI exam revealed he had torn the medial meniscus in his right knee again. The Bulls were 37-22 heading into another nationally televised matinee, this time against the Los Angeles Clippers. The hope was that Rose would be back in four to six weeks, but although Thibodeau and the front office maintained outward confidence that Rose would be back before the end of the regular season, nobody knew for sure, given Rose's injury history.

As for Thibodeau's ongoing feud with Forman and Paxson, that had cooled for the time being as all three men began to deal with the reality of another Rose injury. But that cooling period didn't last long as Van Gundy came back into the picture.

During the game against the Clippers, Van Gundy was asked by television partner Mike Breen to discuss his thoughts regarding the situation between Thibodeau and the Bulls.

"What I said previously, I stand by," Van Gundy said. "I think, over the course of time, they've been unfriendly and they haven't been pro-coach."

"I think you go all the way back to Doug Collins' time here, then Phil Jackson, and go on and on and on. So I don't really feel the need to reiterate too much. That's what I said. That's what I believe. The only thing I have to be concerned with is that everything I say, unfortunately, is taken like it's coming from Tom, which is not true. Because I speak for myself. This is something I believe in."

As was the case during his January commentary, Van Gundy wasn't finished.

"John Paxson, to be fair, said he thought what I said was 'pathetic,' " Van Gundy said, in reference to Paxson's comments to the Tribune, in which he also stated that he felt Van Gundy owed an apology to Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf for his previous comments in January during the game in Dallas.

"He was so mad at me I thought I had traded LaMarcus Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas and not him."

The front office, already livid about Van Gundy's comments in Dallas, believed that the former coach had taken a personal shot at Paxson with the Aldridge remark. They felt a line had been crossed.

That comment aside, the reality for the Bulls is that there was truth to Van Gundy's commentary. The Bulls have had well-documented issues between their coaches and their front office in the past. But since Forman became the general manager in May 2009, creating a more formal brain trust with Paxson, the pair had worked with only two coaches: Thibodeau and Del Negro.

Del Negro was fired after the 2009-10 campaign, an up-and-down season in which one moment that stood out was a physical altercation between Paxson and Del Negro after a game in March 2010. Perhaps not coincidentally, Paxson was upset that Del Negro played Noah more minutes than he was allotted by the front office as he made his way back from plantar fasciitis.

Paxson later apologized for the incident, and Del Negro would say later that summer that "there's no relationship [with Paxson or Forman]. The relationship was broken, and you move on."

The differences between the Del Negro and Thibodeau feuds is the public perception surrounding both coaches. Del Negro amassed an 82-82 record in two seasons as Bulls coach. The altercation between Paxson and Del Negro will be the biggest memory of Del Negro's tenure -- but while the Bulls appreciated the work Del Negro put in with his players, the feeling within the organization was that he just wasn't a very good coach.

With Thibodeau, the same argument couldn't be made. In five years as a head coach, he amassed a 255-139 regular-season record. As Van Gundy correctly pointed out, Thibodeau helped create a culture of winning with the Bulls that had been missing since Michael Jordan retired. He helped give the group a consistent identity it didn't have under Del Negro, or any coach, since Jackson.

One of the sore spots for the front office, according to multiple sources, was the fact that it felt Thibodeau didn't give the front office enough credit for the job it had done in the draft and in filling up the roster with talented professionals.

Thibodeau supporters believed exactly what Van Gundy had stated during the telecast in Dallas. That while the front office publicly offered support to the veteran coach, privately they did not have his back and were trying to undermine him.

Now, on national television, Van Gundy blasted Paxson for a rare mistake.

It was another event, in a season full of them, that created anger and resentment on both sides.
AP Photo/Duane Burleson
March 15, 2015 -- Running out of time

That frustration among the three men hovered over everything the Bulls did throughout the season. After a March 15 loss to the Oklahoma City Thunder, Thibodeau was asked why he didn't use Noah down the stretch in a tight game on the road.

"I ran out of minutes with him," Thibodeau said. "But I thought Jo played a very good game for us."

The revelation came as a mild surprise given that Noah had played more than 32 minutes several times throughout the season and seemed to be finding more of a rhythm. The declaration from Thibodeau reinforced the chasm within the trio. Forman and Paxson supporters saw it as a direct shot from Thibodeau at the front office. The fact that Thibodeau decided to make the minutes limit a point of emphasis again to the media only reinforced how frustrated he was that it was there to begin with.


"Even with Derrick, to me, if a guy is not playing up to his ability, it's really not an issue," Thibodeau said. "Because you're not just going to play a guy to play a guy. You want him to play well. So even if you went back to last year, [when] Derrick had no minutes restrictions, I still, I didn't play him more than 32 minutes. If a guy plays well, and he can play more, great. If not, then he doesn't play. It's not a big deal."

For the first time since the spring of 2012, the Bulls headed into the playoffs with a relatively healthy roster. As usual within the organization, there were differences of opinion as to how the organization got to this point. Thibodeau supporters believed that the coach continued stringing wins together in the face of all the swirling rumors around him. Forman and Paxson supporters believed the Bulls had their best chance to win in years largely because the minutes restrictions put into place before the season worked.

To the Forman and Paxson supporters, Thibodeau's outward frustration in regard to the minutes limit reinforced that he wasn't listening to his bosses. Whether or not Thibodeau agreed with the front office's decision, it was still his job to do what his superiors told him to do.

To the Thibodeau supporters, the meddling behind the scenes from the front office only reinforced that Forman and Paxson weren't on the same page with their coach and weren't supporting him.

Either way, the tension that was present before the season even began was still present at the end. During the news conference to announce Butler's most improved player award, Forman and Thibodeau had to sit next to each other on the dais and made small talk before the ceremony. It had the look of when two divorced parents are thrown back together for a child's graduation.

The irony of the Thibodeau/Forman/Paxson relationship is that they are all highly competitive men who badly want to win. The most difficult part will be in knowing that they might have let their best chance to beat LeBron James pass them by. Despite all the hoopla surrounding this team, the internal hope was that the Bulls could come together when it mattered most to take down the man who had helped knock them out of the playoffs in three of the past five seasons, in James.

With Kevin Love out because of a shoulder injury and Kyrie Irving hobbled because of knee and foot issues, the Bulls were poised to knock out James and the Cleveland Cavaliers in the Eastern Conference semifinals. But it didn't happen -- as the Bulls lost in six games, culminating in a shocking 94-73 Game 6 loss at the United Center. All of the Bulls' inconsistencies came to the forefront. The intensity and passion Thibodeau instilled in his players over the years went missing. The team that prided itself on the mantra of never stop fighting, stopped fighting.

"I'd say disappointing," veteran Mike Dunleavy said of the season. "It ended in disappointing fashion. It kind of summed up the whole year in terms of just -- we couldn't channel our best when we needed to, could never really get this thing going. We had some great moments, I thought our best was as good as anybody in the league's, but we just couldn't find it on a consistent basis. Especially on a night like tonight, we couldn't find it when we needed it most."

A dejected Thibodeau found himself in an unfamiliar position as the final minutes ticked off the clock -- sitting on the bench. For a man who spends most nights pacing up and down the sidelines and raving at officials, it was a strange conclusion to the final season in his five-year tenure.

truth be told garpax undermined thibs quite a bit a prospective coach would have to look at not just thibs situation but del negro's and skiles, heck even cartwright ,you can go much further back to jackson and collins if you want to say this starts with reinsdorf ...it doesn't paint a pretty picture.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Let's also go WAY back to when Reinsdorf undermined the then successful Scott Skiles when they forced Ben Wallace into that locker-room and in doing so completely signaled the end of Skiles who wanted nothing to do with Wallace.

Garpax and Reinsdorf are soo desperate to want recognition from the fanbase that they are continuing to put its hands in coaching decisions. Stuff that I always felt the front office should avoid doing, unless THEY WANT to coach the team themselves.

Also, there was a rumor that the Bulls wanted Thibs to bring on Doug Collins on his staff... Thats just going above and beyond in trying to undermine their own coach.
 

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The completely unnecessary veiled blasting by Reinsdorf was the cherry on the shit flavored sunday that was this Thibs vs Garpax situation.
Admittedly, I was wrong the Bulls did not take the high road on Reinsdorf's press release as I thought they would. Reinsdorf basically said out right that Thibodeau was not a team player with other parts of the organization and accused him of leaking stuff to the press.

As hardcore fans we see this as unnecessary and perhaps it was. From Reinsdorf's perspective, I believe he felt the need to justify the move to the more general fan base.

I am just glad the move is done and we can move on. You can bet the farm the Bulls are looking for a coach they can work alot more easily with on day to day matters, whether that be Hoiberg or someone else.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
while I can understand that the cowley point is probably overblown, you also can't just pass off the fact that one of Reinsdorfs best friends called Thibs out of the blue as just a coincident.
 
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