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Discussion Starter #1
Thought I would run some stats...some mention on the local talk radio stations have mentioned this but not really run with it. The numbers are astonishing.

Through 21 games: 601 points. 202 in 9 wins, 399 in 12 losses.

Win average: 22.45.
Loss average: 33.25.

Delimiters:

Lakers' record when Kobe scores 30 or more: 1-9.
Lakers' record when Kobe scores 29 or less: 8-3.

Lakers' record when Kobe scores 25 or more: 3-12.
Lakers' record when Kobe scores 24 or less: 6-0.

Ball don't lie.
 

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I think this ends up happening because he normally starts the game off looking to pass. If guys are hitting shots it usually means they open up a big lead and he can cost for the rest of the game.

When his teammates aren't hitting he knows he has no choice but to look for his own shot and that's when you see the 20+ attempts. If he didn't look to score in those situations these close games we keep losing would turn into blow outs.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
As my friend would say, "correlation does not imply causation."
12 games is a pretty good sample size, and I will be updating it game to game as the season wears on.

Defense is the main problem for the losses. But Kobe needs to share the rock also. It will be interesting to see what Nash will do when he spots an open man other than Kobe waving his hand on every play and passes to the other player.
 

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Wiltside
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From what I've watched, it does seem like his high scoring moments come as a reaction to the team struggling and having to crawl back form behind. May not always be winning basketball, as I've seen him take a ton of bad shots in those moments, but he's as good as anyone at hitting absurd shots. I'm inclined to say they should try to go to Dwight a little more when adversity strikes, but I see a lot of complaining about Dwight turning it over or just not garnering confidence in those moments, not to mention the FT shooting.
 

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12 games is a pretty good sample size, and I will be updating it game to game as the season wears on.
It is regardless of sample size IMO. :whoknows:

Defense is the main problem for the losses.
Let me add effort there as they have shown they're fully capable of playing great D.

But Kobe needs to share the rock also. It will be interesting to see what Nash will do when he spots an open man other than Kobe waving his hand on every play and passes to the other player.
Nash will wave him off for a better shot as was shown in the limited time they played together.



Oh and regarding the stats, I suggest including the shooting %s of the other Laker players to spice things up. ;)
 

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Wiltside
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But that could also be affected by Kobe not getting them involved, or looks in quality spots. It's hard to tell what's affecting what. Really, everything is affecting everything else, both ways, probably. Stats can be extremely misleading without viewing the film meticulously.
 

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But that could also be affected by Kobe not getting them involved, or looks in quality spots. It's hard to tell what's affecting what. Really, everything is affecting everything else, both ways, probably. Stats can be extremely misleading without viewing the film meticulously.
I only said that it'll add spice. Never have I said or implied any of what you mention regarding the other Laker players. :whoknows:

Might, most likely IMO, even help in analyzing this "Kobe factor."

As for viewing the film meticulously, I believe we have objective Laker/basketball fans here who watch Laker games more often than the casual fan to provide meaningful insights and "evidences."



Oh and I agree that stats without applying context can often be misleading, sometimes even meaningless. ;)
 

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Wiltside
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Well, it seemed like you were making the implication that he scored a lot in those games because his teammates were struggling.

I understand you guys watch the games closely, but with Ron updating that as a composite stat, it's hard to attribute specific play to the numbers.
 

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Your team is weak in the depth department to begin with, and with Gasol and Nash out it makes it even worse.

When I have to hear "Jodie Meeks coming in the game. Now there's a real dynamic young player for you!" from your announcers, you know your bench sucks.

When I have to hear about how amazing Duhon is by the same guys, you know your depth sucks.

If Howard, MWP and Jamison aren't hitting their shots, Kobe has to be Kobe. You guys aren't loaded with options to pick up the slack offensively.
 

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I can only think of 1 game where he Kobe'd it and that was his flu game where he pretty much chucked the entire 2nd quarter - otherwise I think it's been more chicken (hero ball in a losing situation) than egg ( kobe-ying up an otherwise winnable game)
 

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I think it just starts to spiral some times. Lakers arent hitting shots or making good cuts, so Kobe takes it upon himself to score. This takes the other guys out of the game more and they lose their rhythm and then there is little movement and bad spacing. This flows over to defense where the other teams get fast breaks and we have bad balance defensively. What Kobe needs to do, is score when the team is really stagnant, but work hard to get other guys motivated and involved afterward. This is not something he has ever really excelled at.

The problem with this team is defense. If Kobe's hero balling is affecting them on the defensive side of the court, I dont know. Some times it looks like it to me, but its not like the defense gets better when Kobe is not on the court.
 

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The problem with this team is defense. If Kobe's hero balling is affecting them on the defensive side of the court, I dont know. Some times it looks like it to me, but its not like the defense gets better when Kobe is not on the court.
Phil's mentioned this before. Saying when Kobe doesn't involve them they lose rythm and energy on both ends of the court. It's only natural that you are just stagnant standing around on one end and then asked to switch gears and bust ass on the other... not as easy to do.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Through 22 games: 643 points. 202 in 9 wins, 441 in 13 losses.

Win average: 22.45.
Loss average: 33.92.

Delimiters:

Lakers' record when Kobe scores 30 or more: 1-10.
Lakers' record when Kobe scores 29 or less: 8-3.

Lakers' record when Kobe scores 25 or more: 3-13.
Lakers' record when Kobe scores 24 or less: 6-0.

I really don't know if I want to keep up with these depressing stats. :(
 

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Stupid stat. Lakers wouldn't even be in these games if Kobe wasn't doing what he was doing. Tonight Kobe was 16/28 shooting. The rest of the team was 15/47. But let's blame Kobe for our losses.
 

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The Lakers had 11 assists tonight. Kyrie Irving by himself had 11.
 

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didnt see the game but I know you cant get dimes from the free throw line and it looks like hack-a-dwight was in full effect
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Stupid stat. Lakers wouldn't even be in these games if Kobe wasn't doing what he was doing. Tonight Kobe was 16/28 shooting. The rest of the team was 15/47. But let's blame Kobe for our losses.
So what you are saying is that the rest of the team only shoots well when Kobe is not so selfish?
 

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Like Twain said there's two kinds of lies: Damn lies and statistics. You can make stats say whatever you wish.

Ron, you have the wrong stats. What you should count is the record when the others shoot 40% or better, 50% or better etc...

When you have two starters combine for 4 pts and Artest is your third option, Kobe could score 81 and it wouldn't work.
 

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So what you are saying is that the rest of the team only shoots well when Kobe is not so selfish?
Who exactly should he be passing to ?

And what does that have to do with getting back on defense which is the real problem ?
 
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