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Are Shaq, Kobe and The LA Lakers bad for the NBA. What are your thoughts on the issue?

NBA ratings have been down lately, NBA finals were the worst ratings in 20 years. I think there has to be a reason to that, and I say it is the Lakers. Not the domination of the Lakers as much as the players on the team. When Phil was on the Bulls people loved the team and they had a huge fan base. But with the Lakers being the new "big dogs" in town the general public are not as interested in Kobe and Shaq as they were for Scottie and Micheal.
I think the main reason the Lakers are not popular is Kobe Bryant, he comes off to average fans as being very cocky and not in a good way. He is not the usual sports icon like MJ, Wain, Larry, Magic, Dr. J, Joe Montana, Ripken, Ali, Jerry Rice..........
People related with those players as down to earth, but Kobe seems to put himself atop everyone else. For example in the All Star game he wanted to be the main man and win that MVP so he can get his claim to fame as it were, and his play showed that. And the fact that he is not even the best player on his own team doesn't help either. It would be like Scottie, or Drexler trash talking all the time and acting like the big player on the team but in reality they are not even close. And I think that is what is happening with Bryant, he acts like the all mighty great player but to be honest it is Shaquille!

Any thoughts?
 

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I think that there were low ratings in this years Finals because everyone already knew the outcome. Also, I know a lot of people who vowed that they would not watch the Finals after the refs seemingly gave the Lakers the WCF championship... (not necessarily my opinion).
 

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Originally posted by KC
I think that there were low ratings in this years Finals because everyone already knew the outcome. Also, I know a lot of people who vowed that they would not watch the Finals after the refs seemingly gave the Lakers the WCF championship... (not necessarily my opinion).

IMO, Lakers would've been out of it at the end of game 6 in the Western Conference Finals. JMO.
 

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Beware of Elbows
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Lakers

You know what I think. But the reason that people didn't watch the Finals was because they knew that the Lakers would win. I believe that the Kings/Lakers series set records for viewers.

So, now we're back to this Kobe's jersey issue. Why are we talking about this?! Who cares if he comes off as arrogant? Half of the players in the NBA look arrogant. Webber, Kobe, AI, the list goes on and on.

Aren't NBA players allowed to have idols? Just because they play in the NBA, it doesn't mean that they can't admire another player.
 

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Who mentioned Kobe's jersies?

You are right, Webber and AI and T-Mac are all arrogant as well, but they are also the leaders of their teams. Kobe isn't.....
 

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mr. x, don't feel bad...a lot of people don't like iverson because of his arrogance...i think iverson may be more hated than kobe.
 

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So MJ could have all the titles he got without Pippen??? One player will never lead a team to be a champ if the whole team isn't good.
 

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Personally, I don't care if the NBA ratings fall into the negative...if the Lakers keep winning titles, then I'm a happy man! :D

Seriously, I will address your concerns...

(1) Shaq and Kobe come off as arrogant to non-Laker fans just as Webber, Bibby, Iverson, McGrady, et al come off to me, a non-Kings, non-76ers, non-Magic fan...but I believe that "arrogance" has a lot to do with "success" in today's NBA. There aren't too many great players out there who aren't "arrogant." Hell, even MJ came off as arrogant most of the time.

(2) The Nets may have been the worst team ever in the Finals. Not my opinion, but a lot of reporters' opinions after seeing how they played during the Finals. So, people tuned out.

(3) The Sacramento Kings' fan base tuned out. Many feel that the "refs handed the Lakers the series." Well, the Sacto papers have mostly put that to rest...

<span style='font-family:Verdana; font-size:11px; color:#004400'>
<b>Mark Kreidler: Forget the conspiracy and hit the free throws</b>
By Mark Kreidler -- Bee Sports Columnist
Published 2:15 a.m. PDT Thursday, June 6, 2002

The NBA Finals began Wednesday night in Los Angeles, and you can color me fully naive, because I'll cop to it straight up: I never thought a sentence fragment that simple would need to be repeated.

After receiving from the source the full text of the now famous Nader Letter, though, and the reaction it has engendered among a significant portion of the local faithful, it has become apparent that I was wrong in spades. The overarching truth is this: The Kings-got-cheated conspiracy theory isn't going to die until we drive the stake all the way through the black heart of this ludicrous, amazingly misguided argument.

And even then, I've got my doubts.

Ralph Nader officially no longer has anything to do. He spent his time earlier this week firing off a letter to NBA Commissioner David Stern that set a new standard for thinly disguised bitterness. Who knew Nader was a closet Kings fan?

(This is the man who once crusaded against unsafe cars on behalf of the American people, right? Guy who ran for president? Just checking.)

The premise of Nader's letter was basic: That the NBA's integrity comes into serious question when an important, closely followed series like the Kings-Lakers Western Conference finals is so badly officiated that one side cries "fix."

This is, of course, not only an acceptable position but the proper one. The one thing all sides can agree on is that the series we just saw featured some of the worst work by paid referees since Vince McMahon was wearing short singlets. It was a black eye for the league, it underscored the ways in which the NBA undermined itself by chasing off some quality officials in a travel-scam imbroglio a couple of years ago, and it boldly highlighted the ways in which lousy officiating can kill a product by taking the customers' eyes off the floor show.

And if Nader's letter had served to advance this argument even one useful inch, I'd applaud it from the rooftop. Instead, the man exposed himself as a sports fraud, a pure, one-sided rooter. Worse still, he sent out a new wave of encouragement to those Kings fans already in full snipe over the notion they had their conference title stolen from them by a league that wanted the Lakers in the finals.

In a word: Nope. This is a crisis of competence, not corruption. There is no conspiracy here, and saying there is a thousand times in a row isn't going to change it.

There can be no conspiracy when a series goes to a seventh game and the home team loses not because it didn't get enough free throws, but because it didn't make enough. There can be no conspiracy when the single most egregious blown call of the series goes in favor of the Kings -- wins them Game 5, in fact.

Most people around here remember that call; they just don't speak of it often, because it's inconsistent with their outrage. Chris Webber flat threw the ball out of bounds, simply lost it. He was trying to make a pass and didn't, and the ball should've gone to the Lakers, who had a one-point lead with 11.4 seconds remaining; and the official blew the call and awarded the Kings the ball, setting up Mike Bibby's memorable winning jump shot.

That's not a conspiracy. That's a crummy job by someone who is paid to do better.

What the Kings-Lakers series is going to be remembered for, in terms of officiating, is a hundred blown calls, not a handful of particularly terrible ones in the fourth quarter of Game 6 (and make no mistake, they were putrid).

Having seen every minute of every game in real time, I feel qualified to say this: It was a poor show practically from the start, and it never got better, and it bloody well ought to prompt Stern to seriously reconsider the hiring and training methods he's currently employing in that area.

That's where the focus should be: On ridding a high-stakes, big-money sports league of its poorest officials -- who have, by the way, an impossible job. No one can officiate the NBA anymore, because it's a game that was designed for players barely two-thirds the height, weight and width of the stegosauri who roam the lanes these days.

Game 5 was called embarrassingly in favor of Sacramento (Shaquille O'Neal: 18 field-goal attempts, one free throw). Game 6 favored the Lakers to a self-humiliating degree. Different officiating crews, same set of "stars" who we are told consistently receive star treatment, disgustingly tilted kinds of results -- and we haven't even discussed any other game in the series. It smelled from start to finish.

And Nader's letter might have squarely focused Stern's attention on this.

Instead, it became a bad parody of a disgruntled fan's notes, the easiest thing in the world for the commissioner to ignore.

Nader quoted liberally from Washington Post columnist Michael Wilbon's assessment of the dismal Game 6 performance -- yet, while fanning the flames of conspiracy (without actually using the word), he barely found room to include the fact that Wilbon was railing against lousy officiating, not some dark conspiracy. In fact, Wilbon hooted that notion right out of the room: "Don't believe a word of it, never have."

Worse, Nader's letter mentioned the Game 6 calls exclusively, as though Game 5 didn't exist. Rather than call for an overhaul of the officiating system, the consumer crusader asked Stern for "an apology to the Sacramento Kings" for a "growing credibility problem" that "took away the Sacramento Kings' Western Conference victory."

If you listen closely, you can hear Stern chuckling as he heads for the paper shredder. And that's the shame: Whatever you think of Nader, he might've had a chance to do some good here. With real friends like this, the Kings need no more imagined enemies.</span>
 

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Re:

Well said, OZZY. Kobe comes off extremely arrogant and cocky to a casual sports fan(like me). The media and guyz like Ralph Wiley and Bill Walton don't help much either while constantly sucking up to Kobe.(Vulgarities are not allowed). I'm sick of the favored treatment this 2nd fiddle gets from the media........not once has a 2nd option been regarded as highly as kobe. Is he really more special then the pippen's and the mchale's? NOT REALLY. But u constantly see age comparisons between him and MJ, makes me wanna puke. To top it all, kobe is always trying to act like mike. Whether it's talkin'/walkin' like him, chewin' gum, and then indirectly callin' himself the best when he's playing alongside arguably the most dominant player in history.
 

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I'm so sick of guys saying Kobe wants to be "like mike". He doesn't want to be mike, in fact, on numerous occasions he has stated he doesn't like being compared to mike.

He wants to be known as the "first Kobe Bryant", he wants to be remembered as better then Mike, he doesn't want to be the "2nd coming of Jordan".

Is he better then Jordan? I don't know, and right now, I really don't care. It's the media that blows him up as "Jordan re-incarnated", not kobe, so just (do not tell other posters to keep quiet...) about the whole Kobe wants to be like Mike thing. he doesn't! for the last time.

As for low ratings for the finals, it was because the Nets provide no challenge for the Lakers.

I am a Laker fan, and EVEN I DIDN'T watch the finals. The east sucks, they provide no competition, even if the kings won the series, people still wouldn't watch it, because the east provides no competition.

As for arrogance, good luck finding 1 NBA star now a days that isn't. It's just most casual fans(who only watch the playoffs, don't know anyone who isn't in a commerical) were fans of the bulls, and now they are pissed off that bulls blow right now and don't like Lakers.
 

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Accurate and well said, thank you.
 

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Originally posted by OZZY
Are Shaq, Kobe and The LA Lakers bad for the NBA. What are your thoughts on the issue?

NBA ratings have been down lately, NBA finals were the worst ratings in 20 years. I think there has to be a reason to that, and I say it is the Lakers. Not the domination of the Lakers as much as the players on the team. When Phil was on the Bulls people loved the team and they had a huge fan base. But with the Lakers being the new "big dogs" in town the general public are not as interested in Kobe and Shaq as they were for Scottie and Micheal.
I think the main reason the Lakers are not popular is Kobe Bryant, he comes off to average fans as being very cocky and not in a good way. He is not the usual sports icon like MJ, Wain, Larry, Magic, Dr. J, Joe Montana, Ripken, Ali, Jerry Rice..........
People related with those players as down to earth, but Kobe seems to put himself atop everyone else. For example in the All Star game he wanted to be the main man and win that MVP so he can get his claim to fame as it were, and his play showed that. And the fact that he is not even the best player on his own team doesn't help either. It would be like Scottie, or Drexler trash talking all the time and acting like the big player on the team but in reality they are not even close. And I think that is what is happening with Bryant, he acts like the all mighty great player but to be honest it is Shaquille!

Any thoughts?
ozzy, I think youre right. you never saw pippen out there trash talking every day trying to steal the show. But the thing about kobe, some times he can back up the talk and steal the show. other times he fails:laugh: and shaq takes over. now shaq, theres a mighty might man. He walks the walk and talks to talk. so my advice for kobe, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
 

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BlazersNBulls4ever - Pippen never trash talked?? you mean he never interrupted Karl Malone while he was trying to shoot foulshots in the NBA Finals by saying "the mailman doesn't deliver on Sundays"....you mean he never refused to come off the bench after a timeout late in a game, throwing a temper tantrum when he finally realized he wasn't the "go to" guy? Pippen has always had a chip on his shoulder and always has talked trash...watch a Blazers game for God's sake!

I honestly haven't seen or heard kobe gloating without giving the opposition some type of credit....unless the opposition is indignant or disrespectful to begin with (Blazers, Kings)...He has every right to be arrogant at this point in his career...he still really young, he has three titles (ALONGSIDE Shaq) and is considered one of the top five players in the League...If that doesn't give you bragging rights, I don't know what will.
 

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I think that some people didn't watch the NBA finals for many different reasons. Why people watch or do not watch a certain sports final is usually predicated on a complex set of reasons. Deductive reasoning tells me that is far closer to the truth than for one reason alone, such as, "the Lakers are bad for the NBA". :sigh:
 

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So what do you expect the Lakers to do?? Just stop winning? :confused:

Its not the Lakers fault that no one can stop them. And I'm sick of hearing Kings fan's excuses about the WCF. If they would've made their free throws it would've been over in 7. And the reffing, in the end, was acutally overall pretty equal.
 

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I wouldn't hate the Lakers so much if the refs didn't give them so many calls. The refs give the Lakers favored treatment every game and I hate it. Kobe ticks me off because he always complains we he doens't get a call when he doesn't deserve one even though he gets calls to go his way 90% of the time. Shaq ticks me off because he does a lot of illegal stuff and takes advantage of the refs.
 

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Originally posted by PhatDaddy3100
I wouldn't hate the Lakers so much if the refs didn't give them so many calls. The refs give the Lakers favored treatment every game and I hate it. Kobe ticks me off because he always complains we he doens't get a call when he doesn't deserve one even though he gets calls to go his way 90% of the time. Shaq ticks me off because he does a lot of illegal stuff and takes advantage of the refs.

Open your eyes!! Its not just the Lakers that are getting calls! Every All-Star caliber player gets more then his share of calls. Remember in Game 6 where Horry was driving and Webber grabbed his arms?? NO CALL.

I admit that Shaq does use his shoulder way too much, but its up to the officials to call it. Shaq is gonna do that until someone calls him for it. And another thing, its pretty hard not to look like you're bowling people over when you are 7'1 350 pounds.
 

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Re: Re: The LA Lakers are bad for the NBA (everyone please read and respond)

Originally posted by hOnDo
So what do you expect the Lakers to do?? Just stop winning? :confused:

Its not the Lakers fault that no one can stop them. And I'm sick of hearing Kings fan's excuses about the WCF. If they would've made their free throws it would've been over in 7. And the reffing, in the end, was acutally overall pretty equal.
Phatdaddy, I have nothing against you, but come one...that must have been one of the stupedest things ever said. What about Games 2, 3 and 5??!!!! Everyone forgets those because the Lakers won the series. The Lakers might have gotten favored in 1 game! 1 game! And people say, "Oh yeah Lakers always have the refs on their side." Please people, grow up! It was one game! the Kings only have themselves to blame, they could've won easily on their home court in Game 7. Stop whining. Get over it, there's always next year. The Lakers don't always get favored, BOTH TEAMS had the refs on their side atleast one game! Game 7 was for anyone to win, the refs didn't take sides in that game.:no: The Kings should've won. Get over it! Champs win Game 7s, the Kings didn't.:no:
 
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