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Discussion Starter #1
Jim O'Brien is quoted in this morning's Globe as saying "We're never going to outrebound anyone. We've come to that conclusion."

This statement leads me to conclude that there is no hope whatsoever for this team. Last's night's game is a perfect illustration of why. They were outrebounded 52-36, McCarty played 46 minutes, and Paul ball was just good enough to beat a poor team like Miami. They will probably beat Washington on Friday too. Then they will be demolished by the Nets on Sunday.

Maybe they will be just good enough to sneak into the playoffs, year after year, to avoid getting a draft pick higher than the teens. And, if they do manage to sneak in, they will be eliminated in the first or second round. So long as Kidd plays for the Nets, O'Neal and Artest play for the Paces and Wallace plays for Detroit, the Celtics have ZERO chance of getting out of the Eastern Conference.

Brandon Hunter-- and players like him-- will never get a shot with the Celtics because O'Brien is in love with his pet McCarty. If Brandon is lucky, he will be taken in the expansion draft or thrown into one of Ainge's trades as cap fodder. Then when Hunter becomes an automatic double double every night for some team that is not rife with cronyism and self-deception, everyone will say, "we're so happy that Brandon has found success. He just wasn't a good fit here. He couldn't crack our veteran lineup."

I don't know how well the team has to do to stay in the black, but if Grousbeck and his venture capitalists are expecting the kind of return on investment that VC's usually expect, they will be sorely disappointed. An investment in the Celtics is like buying the stock of some tired public utility that breaks even every year. What a sad end for this franchise.

I'm going to have to get a dish so that I can follow an up-and- coming team like the Grizzlies or a well-coached team like Sacramento. Anything for some exciting basketball and a team with a chance to win-- not a team whose season is over before it even begins.
 

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I didnt see lat nights game becuase of practice...but just looking at the box score REALLY pissed me off. Waltah played 46 minutes, Michael Stewart played 10 minutes..and Brandon Hunter had a DNP, and only 8 guys played. Mihm is injured I guess becaue he didnt play. You'd think with the lack of big men that Hunter would atleast play a few minutes. BUT NO! There needs to be some big changes in Boston..or I'm getting a dish too.:upset:
 

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Yes, I couldnt believe it myself, when I read the quote! I am just sick of this horrible play and Obriens post game quotes. I am just sick of everything.

Even Michael Stewart played 10 minutes (according to O'Brien, the veteran big man "can defend at a level that I want to defend at"). Obrien is doing everything to stay alive. And he is going to get his 8th playoff spot, go out in the first round but he will be the happiest guy on earth. And same story next years and the year after that and year after that...

I am loosing my patience. I am just a few horrible games and quotes away from boycotting this team...and I wont be back until Obrien is gone!
 

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I'm disgusted too, and I'm disgusted with OB. We have Chris Mihm, Mark Blount, Vin Baker, Brandon Hunter, and Kendrick Perkins on this team. Every one of those guys can rebound well (as long as not paired with Walter). We could easily be a good rebounding team if those guys played and Walter was not playing. Of those 5 guys ONLY Blount played last night and he was paired with Walter and you know what that does to a guy. Freaking Michael Stewart is playing now:upset: I'm so mad I can't even stand it, my heads spinning!:sour:
 

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Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>I'm so mad I can't even stand it, my heads spinning!:sour:






I feel your pain........:sigh:
 

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When you have your centers blitzing picks outside the 3 point arc you are ALWAYS going to have trouble rebounding. The defensive style has go to change. Team are simply bringing their big guy outside to set the screen, waiting for our big guy to blitz the ball handler, and send their big man straight to the rim. Count how many times next game you see oru center chasing a guy with the ball out top. Its a terrible system for rebounding the basketball. I think even Tommy is starting to realize it to. He made a couple comments last night. Its been going on for a LONG time now and if Obie can't see that and make an adjustment it is time to say good bye.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The problem isn't the system so much as the personnel that O'Brien elects to put on the floor. Other teams blitz the pick and roll and still manage to rebound effectively. Indiana is one example (Carlisle is also a Harter disciple) but there are others.

How many dumb quotes and rationalizations will it take for everyone (except of course Jim O'Brien) to realize that McCarty absolutely sucks?
 

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We have to know that our franchise is no longer Paul Pierce. It is Waltah right now. He's our best player offensively and defensively, he plays more minutes than anyone, he know how to rebound than anyone. He's just our best player and Obie knows it. Obie's not stupid, he doesn't care about the young team we have because what he wants to do is to show the world that Walter deserves his minutes and is indeed our best player ever. I think Obie knows that he's not staying as a head coach after the season. That's why he held the rooks progress and our nice young players. I am talking about Perkins, Hunter, and Banks. Even though he plays Banks a lot, it's because we don't have true back PG. I bet if we have one, he wouldn't play Banks.
 

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Originally posted by <b>h180ys</b>!
I am talking about Perkins, Hunter, and Banks. Even though he plays Banks a lot, it's because we don't have true back PG. I bet if we have one, he wouldn't play Banks.
Agreed, if he had another option he'd use it, you can tell he doesn't like using Banks as much as he does and the kid is making true progress too.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
Jim O'Brien is quoted in this morning's Globe as saying "We're never going to outrebound anyone. We've come to that conclusion."

This statement leads me to conclude that there is no hope whatsoever for this team. Last's night's game is a perfect illustration of why. They were outrebounded 52-36, McCarty played 46 minutes, and Paul ball was just good enough to beat a poor team like Miami. They will probably beat Washington on Friday too. Then they will be demolished by the Nets on Sunday.

Maybe they will be just good enough to sneak into the playoffs, year after year, to avoid getting a draft pick higher than the teens. And, if they do manage to sneak in, they will be eliminated in the first or second round. So long as Kidd plays for the Nets, O'Neal and Artest play for the Paces and Wallace plays for Detroit, the Celtics have ZERO chance of getting out of the Eastern Conference.

Brandon Hunter-- and players like him-- will never get a shot with the Celtics because O'Brien is in love with his pet McCarty. If Brandon is lucky, he will be taken in the expansion draft or thrown into one of Ainge's trades as cap fodder. Then when Hunter becomes an automatic double double every night for some team that is not rife with cronyism and self-deception, everyone will say, "we're so happy that Brandon has found success. He just wasn't a good fit here. He couldn't crack our veteran lineup."

I don't know how well the team has to do to stay in the black, but if Grousbeck and his venture capitalists are expecting the kind of return on investment that VC's usually expect, they will be sorely disappointed. An investment in the Celtics is like buying the stock of some tired public utility that breaks even every year. What a sad end for this franchise.

I'm going to have to get a dish so that I can follow an up-and- coming team like the Grizzlies or a well-coached team like Sacramento. Anything for some exciting basketball and a team with a chance to win-- not a team whose season is over before it even begins.
Nice post BJ.
 

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The reason he does what he does

Jim O'Brien has been accused of not being a good coach in terms of developing young talent. If you look at his track record it is clear that he is not that type of coach.

Why does he do what he does?

He is a coach that tries to win every game, no matter what. He often loses sight of the overall picture. He overplays his stars during the regular season and then pays for it in the playoffs when they are drained and injured (last year Walker and Pierce were beat before they even stepped onto the floor against the Nets in the playoffs). O'Brien is concerned about his coaching record. It is good. It is above average. Until the sweep by the Nets last season he had an excellent win percentage in the playoffs. I can understand a coach having a hard time sacrificing some wins for the good of the team's future. Coaching is a tough and fickle business. The fans, players and management love you when you win and hate you when you do not. Why put your job in jeopardy when you may not even be there to reap the benefits in the future?

O'Brien is also a coach who has extreme loyalty to players that he trusts and has coached for years. McCarty is a perfect example of a player who O'Brien trusts and believes in. McCarty is a great person on and off the court. He is a great worker, he is very athletic, he is a good defender, and he can get very hot from the three point line. But he should NEVER be relied on as a starter. He should NEVER play 46 minutes in a game (unless it goes into tripple overtime). He is a terrible rebounder because he has never learned how to box out and because he spends so much time on the perimeter. He is very challenged in creating his own shot. When his three is not falling in the hoop he is a liability on offense. Cleveland refused to take him in the Ricky Davis deal...that is how little other teams think of his game. Yet O'Brien favors him over other players like the young Kendrick Perkins and Hunter who both can rebound and really play the inside game the Celtics need.

I like Jim. He has taken the C's back to the playoffs and made it interesting to be a Celtics fan again. Can he take this team to the next level? If he doesn't change some of his ways the answer is no.
 

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Re: The reason he does what he does

Originally posted by <b>Bad Bartons</b>!
McCarty is a great person on and off the court.
I am a great person too. So why not sign me and let me play PF? I am good at jacking up 3`s. Damn, I am perfect for this system!
 

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Re: Re: The reason he does what he does

Originally posted by <b>theBirdman</b>!


I am a great person too. So why not sign me and let me play PF? I am good at jacking up 3`s. Damn, I am perfect for this system!
Did you play for Pitino / O'Brien on the Kentucky Championship team?

If so, I am sure that Jim would give you 46 minutes to jack up threes and let guys rebound all over you.
 

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It has been mentioned many, many times on TV and radio in Boston that Danny Ainge doesn't care about this year. He never cared about the first year.

It shouldn't be too hard to figure out why this team isn't winning. If the guy in charge doesn't care then why should the players.


Jim O'Brien has no talent on the floor. How do you expect this man to win when they have Mark Blount leading the team.
With all due respect to Mark, he isn't a legit starter in the NBA.
Neither is anyone else on this team except Paul.
 

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Originally posted by <b>lastlaugh</b>Jim O'Brien has no talent on the floor. How do you expect this man to win when they have Mark Blount leading the team.
With all due respect to Mark, he isn't a legit starter in the NBA.
Neither is anyone else on this team except Paul.






You are right. I would say you can make an argument possibly for Ricky, but otherwise we have very little talent after Paul and even Tom ToLbert said it the other day b4 the SPURS game, we just don't have enough to support Pierce this year, and the young guys not playing will never make them ready to support him, dammit :sigh:
 

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Re: Re: Re: The reason he does what he does

Originally posted by <b>Bad Bartons</b>!
Did you play for Pitino / O'Brien on the Kentucky Championship team?
If so, I am sure that Jim would give you 46 minutes to jack up threes and let guys rebound all over you.
You are right. Not playing for Kentucky is the only reason why I dont play for the C`s!:D
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Originally posted by <b>Richie Rich</b>!

...but otherwise we have very little talent after Paul and even Tom ToLbert said it the other day b4 the SPURS game, we just don't have enough to support Pierce this year, and the young guys not playing will never make them ready to support him, dammit :sigh:
Sorry RR but I don't buy that argument. It just looks like they have no talent when McCarty is on the floor.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!


Sorry RR but I don't buy that argument. It just looks like they have no talent when McCarty is on the floor.
There is a lot of talent here. However, much of it isn't where its going to be quite yet. Additionally, there is no obvious number two guy. Even when Raef comes back, there still won't be a number two guy.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!


Sorry RR but I don't buy that argument. It just looks like they have no talent when McCarty is on the floor.






Well obviously I think we have alot of talent after Pierce, but it's just not there consistenly right now. Davis is not consistent cuz he isn't getting minutes, Welsch and Banks are still young and getting accustomed to ACTUALLY GETTING PLAYING TIME, Raef is hurt and is easily a double double guy when healthy and our two young guys who can rebound liek hell, Hunter and Perkins, can't even get garbage time. Then you have Mihm who is a great threat off the bench to push some guys around.

I don't "buy" the argument that we don't have talent, we do, it's just not being utilized or used period. Hopefully things work out and we start to turn things around sometime soon?
 

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I forgot who it was that siad that obrien made the cs interesting this year.

My main problem with obrien is he is sticking to three ball instead of the running game we were led to believe was going to happen. Thats why we drafted banks right???

I believe this team has decent talent but obrien does not utilize each individual to their potential and also does not make players better.

I think of bill bellichick who cut his starting pro bowl safety and now has a better team defensively in the secondary especially with a ROOKIE playing there who had never once played safety.. ... bellichicks defensive schemes are complicated as we hear obriens/harters are, are football players smarter than basketball players???

Some guys are just not good teachers period, jim o comes across as that to me.. Everyone cant understand the system, modify it and makeit easier jim... But he does not have the intelligence to adapt from what i see...
 
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