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Discussion Starter #1
For all the problems the NBA has - promoting pond scum, officiating, etc. I feel they have it pretty close to right with the CBA. The hindered movement and lowering salaries enhances the product from my perrspective. I'd like to see the guaranteed contracts go by the wayside as well. The NFL's system isn't too bad, but baseball's is horrible.

One thing I dislike in particular is when it makes more sense to keep a guy rather than dump him as is common in the NFL due to bonuses being pro-rated.

If you agree or disagree, what would you change about the NBA's current system (CBA) to make the product more palatable to you?
 

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I somewhat agree.

I still love a hard cap like the NFL has and wish the NBA could use something more like that. I like how you can be more flexible and if a player isn't working out, star or not, you can cut him.

I think they have the it the best, at least from a team perspective and that is why each year someone can rise from the bottom of the league and become contenders.

But I'm sure the NBPA wouldn't like that.
 

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It is good but I think the NFL still is the best because I don't like the idea of being able to resign your own free agents for what ever. I know that there is a tax hit but what is going to stop major market teams like the Lakers from doing this. You're right though baseball is a disgrace and the Yankees are the root of the problem, it is simply outragous that a team can spend 128 mil. or so when other teams can even afford a 25 mil. dollar payroll.
 

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For players I think Basketball and Baseball is better.

For teams I think Football is the best.

Baseball the best to make trades. Basketball the hardest.

For fans I think Football is best and Baseball the worst because it is too revenue driven. Teams can bounce back quicker in the NFL. You can almost always guess the teams that will win in the NBA before the season starts. In Football there are always surprises. No one really thought that the Steelers would be so dominate last season or that the PATS could somehow upset the Raiders, Steelers and Rams in a row. That would be like the Clippers winning this year beating the Spurs, Lakers and Kings. Also in football teams expected to go 12-4 sometimes go 4-12. That would be like the Kings going 24-58 next year.

Personally I like the way Football is done. Nobody gets stuck with players who can't play or don't want to play or are just a**holes. If you aren't worth your salary too bad. Goodbye. It's a brutal sport with a brutal way of dealing with players, but its fairer than the other sports - where you can overachieve and have one good year and be set for life.
 

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Originally posted by ABull
For players I think Basketball and Baseball is better.

For teams I think Football is the best.

Baseball the best to make trades. Basketball the hardest.

For fans I think Football is best and Baseball the worst because it is too revenue driven. Teams can bounce back quicker in the NFL. You can almost always guess the teams that will win in the NBA before the season starts. In Football there are always surprises. No one really thought that the Steelers would be so dominate last season or that the PATS could somehow upset the Raiders, Steelers and Rams in a row. That would be like the Clippers winning this year beating the Spurs, Lakers and Kings. Also in football teams expected to go 12-4 sometimes go 4-12. That would be like the Kings going 24-58 next year.

Personally I like the way Football is done. Nobody gets stuck with players who can't play or don't want to play or are just a**holes. If you aren't worth your salary too bad. Goodbye. It's a brutal sport with a brutal way of dealing with players, but its fairer than the other sports - where you can overachieve and have one good year and be set for life.
I agree 100%
 

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There are less trades in football than in any other sport. I also think that football is way more transient than the NBA. I like the NBA in terms of salary control with the incentive to stay with a team but they need to fix the CBA where trades are concerned.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Originally posted by ABull
For players I think Basketball and Baseball is better.

For teams I think Football is the best.

Baseball the best to make trades. Basketball the hardest.

For fans I think Football is best and Baseball the worst because it is too revenue driven. Teams can bounce back quicker in the NFL. You can almost always guess the teams that will win in the NBA before the season starts. In Football there are always surprises. No one really thought that the Steelers would be so dominate last season or that the PATS could somehow upset the Raiders, Steelers and Rams in a row. That would be like the Clippers winning this year beating the Spurs, Lakers and Kings. Also in football teams expected to go 12-4 sometimes go 4-12. That would be like the Kings going 24-58 next year.

Personally I like the way Football is done. Nobody gets stuck with players who can't play or don't want to play or are just a**holes. If you aren't worth your salary too bad. Goodbye. It's a brutal sport with a brutal way of dealing with players, but its fairer than the other sports - where you can overachieve and have one good year and be set for life.
That is very true. I do however, like the way you can do whatever to resign your own free agents in basketball. I would hate to see us build a winner and have to start choosing which guy we can afford to keep. I think the way to keep the big $ teams --- Lakers from stringing titles is done more through competent non-borderline-WWF officiating. Of course the same could be said of us when we were stringing titles and MJ owned the charity stripe.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
And of course even the Lakers aren't a big $ team --- yet. For now they're trying to avoid the luxury tax like everybody else.
 

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It is good but I think the NFL still is the best because I don't like the idea of being able to resign your own free agents for what ever. I know that there is a tax hit but what is going to stop major market teams like the Lakers from doing this. You're right though baseball is a disgrace and the Yankees are the root of the problem, it is simply outragous that a team can spend 128 mil. or so when other teams can even afford a 25 mil. dollar payroll.

Although I like the way the NFL salary structure is set up. But I still like the NBA's way the best. I disagree with you on a couple of points. Incentivizing a team to re-sign their own free agents is only good for the game. It essentially rewards team who build through the draft. Plus it helps to maintain continuity within the league. Players aren't jumping from team to team so much that the average fan can't rout for his favorite player on his favorite team from one year to the next.

Although Baseball is FUBARed beyond hope, it's not the Yankees fault. Although the Yankees have one the highest payrolls in baseball, they're still one of the most profitible. If you really want to point the finger at anyone, point it at teams like Texas, LA, the and Boston. Teams that typically spend a ridiculously large amount of money on a couple of key players and never make the playoffs. Teams like the Mets, Yankees, and Atlanta are very profitable and have a large and loyal fan base despite their extensiver payroll. Is it fair for the little markets? No. Is it capitalism in its purest form, probably yes. Baseball is a game where it really takes a team of individuals to be successful. In basketball if you have a superstar on your team, it doesn't really matter (for the most part) who you surround them with. The same basically goes for football. A qood QB and a good running back or a solid defensive unit and you're in the superbowl. But in baseball, you need at least 9 - 11 solid players. None have to be superstars (although it doesn't hurt to have them) in order to win the world series. The Twins, Marlins, Pardes, Phillies, and A's are all small market teams who have made it to the Series. Other teams such as Seattle and Pittsburgh have made it to their respective LCS. Baseball, more than any other major sport, is a team game.

Baseball is a mess for many reasons.

1. The players and owners do not respect the leader of MLB (Selig). This guy is the worst commissioner of any sport.

2. Select owners are stupid and overspend. Texas' and Colorado's owners paved the way for the Jeters and Rameriezes of the league by grossly overpaying guys like ARod and Mike Hampton. Now their complaining about too high of a payroll and their the losers that created it in the first place.

3. There is no structure to their salary structure. Like it or not, a salary cap helps to creat parity. It's contrary to the fundamentals of capitalism, but it gives every team a fighting chance to compete.

4. Players and agents have no conscience. In a way, the blame falls back on the owners as the ultimate choice on whether to pay a player $250M is that of the owner. You can't really blame a player for asking for it? Or can you? To some degree you can. There is a point where a greed of a player is counterproductive to the good of the game. Players have to know that when they ask for these ridiculous contracts, that the fans will ultimately have to pay. They're playing a game for a living and they're taking the fans to the cleaners in the process. Some players sign big contracts and then sit back an never show up for work (eg Albert Belle and Ken Griffey Jr). Again, this falls back to the teams who negotiate gauranteed contracts.

5. Lastly the fans. The fans have more control than they might think. If fans just decided to ignore baseball completely for a couple of years, the league would go bankrupt. If no one bought MLB merchandise, no one went to the games, or ever watched it on TV, the league would collapse. Then you could rebuild the league (with some structure) from the ground up. And then maybe players would be happy to play for a couple mill a year and not cry when they're not getting paid $10M per year.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Originally posted by MichaelOFAZ



Although I like the way the NFL salary structure is set up. But I still like the NBA's way the best. I disagree with you on a couple of points. Incentivizing a team to re-sign their own free agents is only good for the game. It essentially rewards team who build through the draft. Plus it helps to maintain continuity within the league. Players aren't jumping from team to team so much that the average fan can't rout for his favorite player on his favorite team from one year to the next.

Although Baseball is FUBARed beyond hope, it's not the Yankees fault. Although the Yankees have one the highest payrolls in baseball, they're still one of the most profitible. If you really want to point the finger at anyone, point it at teams like Texas, LA, the and Boston. Teams that typically spend a ridiculously large amount of money on a couple of key players and never make the playoffs. Teams like the Mets, Yankees, and Atlanta are very profitable and have a large and loyal fan base despite their extensiver payroll. Is it fair for the little markets? No. Is it capitalism in its purest form, probably yes. Baseball is a game where it really takes a team of individuals to be successful. In basketball if you have a superstar on your team, it doesn't really matter (for the most part) who you surround them with. The same basically goes for football. A qood QB and a good running back or a solid defensive unit and you're in the superbowl. But in baseball, you need at least 9 - 11 solid players. None have to be superstars (although it doesn't hurt to have them) in order to win the world series. The Twins, Marlins, Pardes, Phillies, and A's are all small market teams who have made it to the Series. Other teams such as Seattle and Pittsburgh have made it to their respective LCS. Baseball, more than any other major sport, is a team game.

Baseball is a mess for many reasons.

1. The players and owners do not respect the leader of MLB (Selig). This guy is the worst commissioner of any sport.

2. Select owners are stupid and overspend. Texas' and Colorado's owners paved the way for the Jeters and Rameriezes of the league by grossly overpaying guys like ARod and Mike Hampton. Now their complaining about too high of a payroll and their the losers that created it in the first place.

3. There is no structure to their salary structure. Like it or not, a salary cap helps to creat parity. It's contrary to the fundamentals of capitalism, but it gives every team a fighting chance to compete.

4. Players and agents have no conscience. In a way, the blame falls back on the owners as the ultimate choice on whether to pay a player $250M is that of the owner. You can't really blame a player for asking for it? Or can you? To some degree you can. There is a point where a greed of a player is counterproductive to the good of the game. Players have to know that when they ask for these ridiculous contracts, that the fans will ultimately have to pay. They're playing a game for a living and they're taking the fans to the cleaners in the process. Some players sign big contracts and then sit back an never show up for work (eg Albert Belle and Ken Griffey Jr). Again, this falls back to the teams who negotiate gauranteed contracts.

5. Lastly the fans. The fans have more control than they might think. If fans just decided to ignore baseball completely for a couple of years, the league would go bankrupt. If no one bought MLB merchandise, no one went to the games, or ever watched it on TV, the league would collapse. Then you could rebuild the league (with some structure) from the ground up. And then maybe players would be happy to play for a couple mill a year and not cry when they're not getting paid $10M per year.
I'm certainly doing my part ignoring baseball! :laugh:
 

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I actually prefer nfl's system but i guess for the nba's pourposes there system is ok. The nfl does not have many opverpaid players they all just get cut
 

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I think the NBA BY FAR has the best CBA. Three reasons:

- It helps teams keep their own stars...good for the fans and good for the league.

- They're the only major professional league that has a cap on an individual player's salary...brilliant.

- If OWNERS spend more than the target for league salaries, the PLAYERS pay the first 10% of the overage...how good is that!?!
 

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I think the NBA has it pretty close to right, but there are a couple things I'd like to see happen.

1. The "injury exception" clause seems too strict to me. Several teams are paying against the cap for guys that had to retire because they just couldn't play anymore (ie, Larry Johnson, Big country Reeves, Jim McIllvaine, Luc Longley, Loy Vought). If a player retires, he should come off the cap. (Obviously, you'd need some kind of check against a player un-retiring, so that his contract "re-activates" and his rights remain with the team he retired with).

2. Make a true minor-league system with affilliate teams. So many of the guys coming into the league don't know what the hell they're doing. A ML would let players get time and experience without providing an absolutely horrible product on the court (and we wouldn't have to watch Dillybar!).
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Originally posted by Mikedc
I think the NBA has it pretty close to right, but there are a couple things I'd like to see happen.

1. The "injury exception" clause seems too strict to me. Several teams are paying against the cap for guys that had to retire because they just couldn't play anymore (ie, Larry Johnson, Big country Reeves, Jim McIllvaine, Luc Longley, Loy Vought). If a player retires, he should come off the cap. (Obviously, you'd need some kind of check against a player un-retiring, so that his contract "re-activates" and his rights remain with the team he retired with).

2. Make a true minor-league system with affilliate teams. So many of the guys coming into the league don't know what the hell they're doing. A ML would let players get time and experience without providing an absolutely horrible product on the court (and we wouldn't have to watch Dillybar!).
I wish the NBA would do a real affiliated minor league system (and scrap the WNBA thing). And to help promote it, have x-# of dates throughout the year where the same teams minor league squads play ahead of the main event. Sort of like the jv game before the varsity. Leave about an hour or hour and a half between games, but let the fans (especially kids) get down on the floor, meet the players, announcers and any other celebs that are available. Then you allow movement between the minors and the pros just like baseball does. Wait a minute, am I suggesting baseball actually does something right? :confused:
 

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Originally posted by DSB


I wish the NBA would do a real affiliated minor league system (and scrap the WNBA thing). And to help promote it, have x-# of dates throughout the year where the same teams minor league squads play ahead of the main event. Sort of like the jv game before the varsity. Leave about an hour or hour and a half between games, but let the fans (especially kids) get down on the floor, meet the players, announcers and any other celebs that are available. Then you allow movement between the minors and the pros just like baseball does. Wait a minute, am I suggesting baseball actually does something right? :confused:
I'm all for scrapping the WNBA. It's one of Stern's few big mistakes.

The NBA has traditionally had a minor league system...the NCAA...and it's free. The level of coaching in the NCAA is outstanding, particularly in the major conferences. The overseas leagues are also serving as a minor league system for the NBA.

Though the high schoolers jumping directly to the NBA may be a bit of a problem, I don't think the current feeder system is broken. It serves the NBA's interests pretty well. Besides, the NCAA Men's BBall Tourney is my favorite sporting event. A true NBA minor league would screw up my favorite 3 weeks of the year.
 

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You are right on with that. Baseball is just terrible, I hope they go on strike to get a salary cap. It's terrible. The Yankees payroll is just astronomical. I'm not dissing the Yankees because if you have the money spend it, but it just gets unfair.

If Baseball does contract......Contract the Devil Rays and Expos. Expos did a nice job of trying, but they still don't draw fans. The Devil Rays are the next Expos.
 

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Originally posted by transplant

I'm all for scrapping the WNBA. It's one of Stern's few big mistakes.

The NBA has traditionally had a minor league system...the NCAA...and it's free. The level of coaching in the NCAA is outstanding, particularly in the major conferences. The overseas leagues are also serving as a minor league system for the NBA.

Though the high schoolers jumping directly to the NBA may be a bit of a problem, I don't think the current feeder system is broken. It serves the NBA's interests pretty well. Besides, the NCAA Men's BBall Tourney is my favorite sporting event. A true NBA minor league would screw up my favorite 3 weeks of the year.
One one hand, I agree. I love the NCAA tourney. But on the other hand, I have a pretty big philosophical problem with the fact that the NCAA makes an absolute fortune off these kids - and at the same time coming down with the wrath of god on any kid who doesn't uphold the complete fiction that college basketball is an "amateur" sport.
 

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Originally posted by ABull

Personally I like the way Football is done. Nobody gets stuck with players who can't play or don't want to play or are just a**holes. If you aren't worth your salary too bad. Goodbye. It's a brutal sport with a brutal way of dealing with players, but its fairer than the other sports - where you can overachieve and have one good year and be set for life.
I like the NFL for this reason too. They don't have the guarenteed deals. Overpaid Bums like Todd Hundley would be kicked to the curb if MLB had the same agreement. Guys who are continuously hurt also would getcut by their teams. Ilguaskus wouldn't be making the outrageous money he's getting if the NBA would get rid of guarenteed deals.
 

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Originally posted by Mikedc


One one hand, I agree. I love the NCAA tourney. But on the other hand, I have a pretty big philosophical problem with the fact that the NCAA makes an absolute fortune off these kids - and at the same time coming down with the wrath of god on any kid who doesn't uphold the complete fiction that college basketball is an "amateur" sport.
Actually, I completely agree with you, MikeDC. The NCAA definitely exploits top players in the revenue-producing sports. However, those schools are getting hosed, economically-speaking, by being forced to provide the same number of athletic scholarships to women as men. While I'd like to see NCAA players get some cash, it's tough to do when:

a) the schools are bearing a significant "social cost."

b) whatever they did would have to be done for all scholarship athletes.

In any case, the exploitation is being perpetrated by the NCAA, not the NBA. If the NBA sought to right this wrong, they'd alienate the NCAA and take on additional costs, with no discernible gain for the league. It just doesn't seem to make business sense.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Ok, heres an EXTREMELY radical thought.

Pay the top 30 college type coaches or deserving NBA retreads - guys like Coach K, Roy Williams, Mike Dunleavy :laugh: , to coach these NBA minor league teams.

Each team must be located in their associated NBA city.

Each team will pay full scholarship for their players to the local university (if the player desires to attend-no rebate if they don't!). I can't think of any NBA team that doesn't have a 1st-rate college nearby. Practice and training schedules will accomodate a certain amount of collegiate scholastic activity.

The players will also be paid a salary by the pro team. Lets say 25-250k for 12-15 players. NBA sets up rules, etc. without interference from NBA Players Assoc. We're talking about less than $3M total in player salaries here. Just half an Eddie Robinson if you will (and isn't that all we really got last year anyway?)

The coaches can be paid whatever and if I were the team, I'd give them incentives based on who they develop into pros.

Use the same type facilities for training, etc. as the WNBA teams are doing. Hell, kick them out altogether and make room for these guys. (Re-paint locker rooms from pink?) The WNBA is going to pay the freight for the existence of this league anyway. And at least some good will come of it. Although, there was that historical FIRST SLAM DUNK EVER in the WNBA the other day...

The draft contracts to one round. The rest is recruiting baby!

Play the games in the big boys arenas.

Encourage movement between the minors and the pros. Remember how pitchers warm up with a couple games in triple A after an injury? How 'bout Crawford coming back from injury in the minors! :laugh:

Follow the same kind of game schedules that colleges do. Run the tournament in the same fashion. 100 major colleges and 64 get in = 30 teams and lets say 16-20 get in [4 brackets of 4 or 5].

Get a TV contract. If possible get regional tv contracts with a network televising national games.

In short suck out the best college coaches and the best college players leaving the NCAA with exactly what they've always claimed to have had---student / athletes. Create your own NCAA. Go head to head against their games / schedules.

Pro Teams will now have more expenses, but have a great deal more flexibility to build their teams from.

Sure it might be as tough a sell as watching the WNBA (could anything be as tough as that?), but in the end watching the NBA could become a whole lot easier! And wouldn't that alone make it all worthwhile? So if getting Kwame and Diop out of real NBA games (oh check that---were they in that many real NBA games? :laugh:) and fielding more skilled experienced players is the result I'm all for it.

May the NCAA (slime-bucket organization that it is) rest in peace.
 
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