Professional and College Basketball Forums banner

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,817 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Should Rivers remain the coach of the Boston Celtics? If no, when should the Celtics fire him. If yes, why? Are there any better coaching possibilities out there?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
414 Posts
Premier said:
Should Rivers remain the coach of the Boston Celtics?
Yes. The team as it presently constructed is not going to compete with upper tier teams in the East. They are a very young team are at least 1-2 years away from being able to even start to compete with that top tier, barring a big-time trade. Once you reach a point where the team is developed it may be time to bring in a more veteran coach, as I remember being not particularly pleased with some of Doc's coaching in the Indiana series. But with the team taking a step back for youth this year no coaching change is logical.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
472 Posts
Premier said:
Should Rivers remain the coach of the Boston Celtics? If no, when should the Celtics fire him. If yes, why? Are there any better coaching possibilities out there?
Yes and Yes.

It is rapidly becoming obvious to me that Rivers has absolutely no idea what the term "game management" means. His substitution patterns make no sense and when he deviates from his established pattern it usually as a knee-jerk reaction to being outcoached by the opponent.

When Doc Rivers was hired my first thought was "Why?" since there were at least two other options that I felt were better, both of whom had strong ties to the C's and/or Ainge. Those two options were Paul Westphal and Dave Cowans. I thought either would have been a good choice then and I think that either could de a better job than Rivers now. That's just two options, but there are proven options out there who I think would do better (is Silas coaching anywhere now?) and there are a couple of other ex-C's (Dennis Johnson and Robert Parish) who I think would be good coaches given a decent opportunity.

I wouldn't want to go after a college coach (we've already suffered through enough Pittino basketball) so if it came down to that I would rather stick with Rivers, but if Westphal or Cowans would step in right now I would not hesitate to go for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,242 Posts
Can him after this season.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,107 Posts
You guys are nuts if you want to get rid of him.

The guy is an idiot, but the players are being developed. I've said it before and I'll say it again:

We will never win anything with Doc Rivers as the coach.

BUT he will lead us to the right direction.

All these "2 teams" and "Stupid substitution patters" are all swell while the team is young, but I don't believe that this coach has got what it takes to win, not with his game plan. He can develop talent, and he's a great asset to any team that has got young potential, but I don't believe he can win.

Time will tell, give him till the end of his contract, unless he starts losing to the Raptors. :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,242 Posts
but I don't believe that this coach has got what it takes to win
Gee, really?

The guy is an idiot, but the players are being developed.
How has Al looked? Improved from last year?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,817 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
This is not the way to learn the NBA game, especially defense. I would rather have Dick Harter drill them in practice than Doc Rivers play them in games in which their confidence is broken.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,107 Posts
P-Dub34 said:
Gee, really?


How has Al looked? Improved from last year?
Al has looked good, considering he's not 100% and coming back from a sprained ankle that's bothering him.

Just because Al is a monster and doesn't get the ball because of our lack of coaching, doesn't mean he hasn't improved.

On defense he's got lightyears to go, but then again, the D we play everyone looks about the same.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,107 Posts
Premier said:
This is not the way to learn the NBA game, especially defense. I would rather have Dick Harter drill them in practice than Doc Rivers play them in games in which their confidence is broken.
I was sick of being outrebounded every game. It's time for some "defense" that we don't have to rely on falling down on the floor and not boxing out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,242 Posts
Just because Al is a monster and doesn't get the ball because of our lack of coaching, doesn't mean he hasn't improved.
Okay, so if he never gets the ball, how is that developing him?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,107 Posts
P-Dub34 said:
Okay, so if he never gets the ball, how is that developing him?

Because the times he does get it, he simply dominates his man. If Blount and Al got more touches in the post we would have had one or two more wins.

If Al got the touches he needs, he'd be on everyone's wishlist.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,817 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
He still cannot play defense and the Celtics, as a team, cannot play defense as they rotate players poorly. That is mainly why I don't want Rivers as the head coach. He is instilling a poor defensive system into the minds of young players.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,865 Posts
I can't call Rivers a good coach without our team being able to play defense.

We can shoot, we can run, but if we can't play defense, half of our game is missing.

To be a good coach, you need to teach the whole game, not just half.

Until he gets over thinking all offense, no defense will win games, he's not a good coach.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
527 Posts
This team just isn't good enough, it wouldn't matter who is coaching them, Doc was bought here to bring the young players along and that is it, that is his strength, when and if these young players are ever going to be ready to play- Jefferson, Perkins, Green, Gomes, West, Allen ever come along like we all hope, that is when you bring in a veteran coach to try to get them over that next hump, but until then we are better off with Doc coaching. Trust me this team isn't going anywhere no matter who coaches them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
I take some pride in being less likely than most fans to call for a coach's firing when a team I follow hit's a bad stretch, but Doc Rivers is starting to test my patience. If he doesn't get it through his head that this team needs Perkins' and Gomes's boardwork more than it needs Mark "Fumbles" Blount's offense (and/or whatever it is Scalabrine supposedly provides) pretty soon I just might get on the "Fire Rivers" bandwagon. I'm not there yet but I'm a lot closer than I was before the season started.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
527 Posts
Rebounders_Rule! said:
I take some pride in being less likely than most fans to call for a coach's firing when a team I follow hit's a bad stretch, but Doc Rivers is starting to test my patience. If he doesn't get it through his head that this team needs Perkins' and Gomes's boardwork more than it needs Mark "Fumbles" Blount's offense (and/or whatever it is Scalabrine supposedly provides) pretty soon I just might get on the "Fire Rivers" bandwagon. I'm not there yet but I'm a lot closer than I was before the season started.
I would agree with you on that I would like to see more Perkins and Gomes and less Blount (too many turnovers, not enough rebounds for a starting center) also I don't want to see any of Scalabrine or for that matter what exactly is it that Justin Reed brings to the table? because whatever it is I don't see it, I honestly don't think Ainge cares about wins or losses he wants to see the young players develop so I think you will see Gomes and Perkins a lot more soon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
472 Posts
vandyke said:
This team just isn't good enough, it wouldn't matter who is coaching them, Doc was bought here to bring the young players along and that is it, that is his strength, when and if these young players are ever going to be ready to play- Jefferson, Perkins, Green, Gomes, West, Allen ever come along like we all hope, that is when you bring in a veteran coach to try to get them over that next hump, but until then we are better off with Doc coaching. Trust me this team isn't going anywhere no matter who coaches them.
I don't really think Doc is doing a good job of developing our young guys. If you look at the young guys on the team, do you honestly see any noticeable improvement that hasn't come through their own hard work? Take Perkins for example. The guy has busted his tail to transform himself from a big soft kid to a BEAST. From the first time he got any time on the floor it was obvious that he had a knack for rebounding, and was good at throwing the quick outlet pass after grabbing a rebound. It was also obvious that he was a little slow to recover after blitzing a pick, he was prone to falling for ball fakes, and he often looked a little lost on offense. This is his 3rd year now and he still has those same faults. He is a little better but he's not going to develop if he keeps getting such inconsistent playing time. The same thing goes for Jefferson. Other than the fact that he's a year older, do you see any significant development over how he played last year? In all honesty I think he has regressed some. Last year he was more fluid on offense than he has seemed so far this year. If he is going to develop he needs consistent playing time and he needs more opportunities on offense. Also, Doc's substitution patterns don't give the players (young guys or vets) the opportunity to use their talents as effectively as they could. Jefferson and Perkins are both bangers that rarely stray far from the basket. LaFrentz and Blount are both softer players who are more comfortable facing the basket and taking mid to long range jump shots. Rather than playing those guys in the tandems he has now, wouldn't it make more sense to have Blount and Jefferson paired up and LaFrentz and Perkins paired up? Think about it, if they double Jefferson in the paint Blount will kill them with 15-20 foot jumpers. If they step out to cover him Jefferson can usually score at will against single coverage. The LaFrentz/Perkins tandem wouldn't be quite the offensive threat, but with one of the opposing bigs having to cover Raef all the way out to the three point line Perkins will be able to set screens for Davis and Pierce (which he is very good at doing) and with the middle opened up these guys could slash to the basket for easy hoops. Also, Perkins will absolutely own the offensive glass with the middle opened up. By playing LaFrentz and Blount together we get killed on the offensive glass unless Pierce spends all his time on the boards which limits him offensively. With Perkins and Jefferson on the floor at the same time the paint is clogged up which allows the other team to double Jefferson with Perkins' man and forces the C's slashers to settle for jump shots rather than driving into the lane knowing that a pair of big defenders will meet them there.

Of the young guys, only Delonte goes into each game knowing he is going to get a lot of minutes regardless of his performance. That's not meant to be a knock on him, but even if he is having an off game Doc sticks with him and that allows him to make a few mistakes without having to worry about getting benched immedietly. If any of the other young guys makes a "rookie mistake" they will be back on the bench shortly. This causes them to be hesitent so rather than playing as hard as they can and learning from the mistakes they make, they defer to the veterans too much and aren't helping the team as much as they could and they aren't helping themselves at all.

If guys like Perkins, Jefferson, Reed, Gomes, etc. are really going to reach their potential they need to know that they are going to get consistent playing time and that the coach isn't going to yank them if they make a mistake. Basically they need to know that the coach trusts them and believes in them 100%. I don't think Doc does this. It's like he is still trying to figure out just exactly what he player can and can't do and changes his mind from game to game. That's what practice, summer leagues, and the pre-season are for not the regular season. If he hasn't figured out each player's strengths and weaknesses by now he's not going to.
 

·
The Bilson = Jayhawk Love
Joined
·
6,884 Posts
give him the end of the year, if no improvement (wins, and advancement in the playoffs) get rid of him fast.
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top