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Discussion Starter #1
What recent young players picked fairly high in the draft, after having only been in the league a few years, are done? Done in the sense that they aren't going to improve much, they aren't goin to be as good as anyone expected...they are busts.

1) Josh Childress - in only his second year, his stats are mediocore. He was drafted pretty high (6th) and a lot of people questioned this pick. They were right. He isn't gonna be anything more than a sub off the bench, definitely not what you want out of a near Top 5 pick.

2) DeSagna Diop - This guy couldn't score to save his life. He can block shots, however, but after being in the league already for four years if he hasn't done anything now he won't ever do anything.

3) Dajuan Wagner - Not even in the NBA anymore, nuff said.

4) Rafael Araujo - Can't even get meaningful minutes for the worst team in the league. And you can't use the excuse that he's a young guy in development, because he's like 26 years old.

5) Chris Kaman - Another mediocore start so far. Now his third year in the NBA, you would figure his numbers would be better. Although injuries have played a small factor, you can't use the same old excuse for his lack of improvement.
 

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pr0wler said:
What recent young players picked fairly high in the draft, after having only been in the league a few years, are done? Done in the sense that they aren't going to improve much, they aren't goin to be as good as anyone expected...they are busts.

1) Josh Childress - in only his second year, his stats are mediocore. He was drafted pretty high (6th) and a lot of people questioned this pick. They were right. He isn't gonna be anything more than a sub off the bench, definitely not what you want out of a near Top 5 pick.

2) DeSagna Diop - This guy couldn't score to save his life. He can block shots, however, but after being in the league already for four years if he hasn't done anything now he won't ever do anything.

3) Dajuan Wagner - Not even in the NBA anymore, nuff said.

4) Rafael Araujo - Can't even get meaningful minutes for the worst team in the league. And you can't use the excuse that he's a young guy in development, because he's like 26 years old.

5) Chris Kaman - Another mediocore start so far. Now his third year in the NBA, you would figure his numbers would be better. Although injuries have played a small factor, you can't use the same old excuse for his lack of improvement.
are you crazy, he had 14 rebounds and 6 BLOCKS in 29 minutes three nights ago. The problem in his first couple of seasons was he wasnt seeing minutes!
 

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mjm1 said:
are you crazy, he had 14 rebounds and 6 BLOCKS in 29 minutes three nights ago. The problem in his first couple of seasons was he wasnt seeing minutes!
Yeah, that's true.
And plus, DeSagana wasn't a top pick, so what would you expect?!

Kinda dissapointed with Childress, cause we provided some lift for the Hawks last year....
 

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Childress.
Wagner
 

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IMHO (I'm only picking players who were picked in the yop 10 of the draft)

Seen the best of:
Kenyon Martin (2000)
Stromile Swift (2000)
Jamal Crawford (2000)
Darius Miles (2000)
Marcus Fizer (2000)
Mike Miller (2000)
DerMarr Johnson (2000)
Chris Mihm (2000)
Joel Przybilla (2000)
Keyon Dooling (2000)
Kwame Brown (2001)
Tyson Chandler (2001)
Eddy Curry (2001)
Shane Battier (2001)
Eddie Griffin (2001)
Desagana Diop (2001)
Rodney White (2001)
Nikoloz Tskitishvili (2002)
Dajuan Wagner (2002)
Mike Dunleavy (2002)
Drew Gooden (2002)
Nene Hilario (2002)
Chris Wilcox (2002)
Caron Butler (2002)
Chris Kaman (2003)
Kirk Hinrich (2003)
Michael Sweetney (2003)
Jarvis Hayes (2003)
Josh Childress (2004)
Rafael Araujo (2004)
Luke Jackson (2004)

Bold picks for seen the best of:
Joe Johnson (2001)
Jason Richardson (2001)
Pau Gasol (2001)
Yao Ming (2002)
TJ Ford (2003)
Chris Bosh (2003) unless he is traded
Carmelo Anthony (2003) ( :cry: ) I'm starting to worry for Melo'
Ben Gordon (2004)
Luol Deng (2004)

Haven't seen the best of:
Amare Stoudemire (2002)
LeBron James (2003)
Dwyane Wade (2003)
Dwight Howard (2004)
Emeka Okafor (2004)
Devin Harris (2004)
Andre Iguodala (2004)

Jury's out:
Jay Williams (2002)
Darko Milicic (2003) currently he is in the seen the best of category
Shaun Livingston (2004) currently he is haven't seen the best of
 

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How could you say Childress is done? He's might only be having a bit of a funk, doesn't mean it will last.

Out of curiousity, where's Wagner now?
 

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mjm1 said:
are you crazy, he had 14 rebounds and 6 BLOCKS in 29 minutes three nights ago. The problem in his first couple of seasons was he wasnt seeing minutes!
Not entirely true. Diop didn't see minutes because he didn't deserve minutes. Remember the Cavs had Z, Mihm and Diop was third on the depth chart. He just did nothing when he was on the floor. In addition he was clearly out of shape just about the entire time he was in Cleveland. That being said, he looks trim now and even has some definition. I think he might have turned to corner as far as his dedication to the game. But he will never ever be more than a backup.

Only an idiot would say that they've seen the best of Jackson (since you haven't seen anything from him). So far this season he's playing well in limited minutes. It's tough being the backup to LeBron but he's shown some ability.
 

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ralaw said:
IMHO (I'm only picking players who were picked in the yop 10 of the draft)

Seen the best of:
Kenyon Martin (2000)
Stromile Swift (2000)
Jamal Crawford (2000)
Darius Miles (2000)
Marcus Fizer (2000)
Mike Miller (2000)
DerMarr Johnson (2000)
Chris Mihm (2000)
Joel Przybilla (2000)
Keyon Dooling (2000)
Kwame Brown (2001)
Tyson Chandler (2001)
Eddy Curry (2001)
Shane Battier (2001)
Eddie Griffin (2001)
Desagana Diop (2001)
Rodney White (2001)
Nikoloz Tskitishvili (2002)
Dajuan Wagner (2002)
Mike Dunleavy (2002)
Drew Gooden (2002)
Nene Hilario (2002)
Chris Wilcox (2002)
Caron Butler (2002)
Chris Kaman (2003)
Kirk Hinrich (2003)
Michael Sweetney (2003)
Jarvis Hayes (2003)
Josh Childress (2004)
Rafael Araujo (2004)
Luke Jackson (2004)

Bold picks for seen the best of:
Joe Johnson (2001)
Jason Richardson (2001)
Pau Gasol (2001)
Yao Ming (2002)
TJ Ford (2003)
Chris Bosh (2003) unless he is traded
Carmelo Anthony (2003) ( :cry: ) I'm starting to worry for Melo'
Ben Gordon (2004)
Luol Deng (2004)

Haven't seen the best of:
Amare Stoudemire (2002)
LeBron James (2003)
Dwyane Wade (2003)
Dwight Howard (2004)
Emeka Okafor (2004)
Devin Harris (2004)
Andre Iguodala (2004)

Jury's out:
Jay Williams (2002)
Darko Milicic (2003) currently he is in the seen the best of category
Shaun Livingston (2004) currently he is haven't seen the best of
Good, very thoughtful list. I'll bet against you, though, on a few names. I really doubt we've seen the best of Chandler, Hinrich, Diop, Ming, Ford, Bosh, or Anthony.

And while you may be more likely to be right about this next batch, I also strongly suspect we'll see better in the future from Nene (on a different team with more playing time), Butler (once the Wizards figure out they need him in the starting lineup), and Deng (just too young with too much talent to write off, but he may need to realize that talent on a different team).

Finally, players I'm really keeping my fingers crossed for but fear you may be right about are Martin, Kwame, Skita, and Darko.
 

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The OUTLAW said:
Not entirely true. Diop didn't see minutes because he didn't deserve minutes. Remember the Cavs had Z, Mihm and Diop was third on the depth chart. He just did nothing when he was on the floor. In addition he was clearly out of shape just about the entire time he was in Cleveland. That being said, he looks trim now and even has some definition. I think he might have turned to corner as far as his dedication to the game. But he will never ever be more than a backup.

Only an idiot would say that they've seen the best of Jackson (since you haven't seen anything from him). So far this season he's playing well in limited minutes. It's tough being the backup to LeBron but he's shown some ability.
I don't think I quite agree about Diop. He definitely hasn't earned minutes until this year, but he's showing flashes of being a more consistent contributor, and not just with one-game bursts. I think he could be the next Przybilla or Dalembert--a guy who will never threaten to become a star, but becomes a starter by being big and active enough to be reasonably effective, and at least marginally better than his team's other options at center. C'mon, there are some center-starved teams in the league he might be able to start for right now... Don't tell me Toronto wouldn't play him over Araujo and Woods.
 

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jericho said:
Good, very thoughtful list. I'll bet against you, though, on a few names. I really doubt we've seen the best of Chandler, Hinrich, Diop, Ming, Ford, Bosh, or Anthony.

And while you may be more likely to be right about this next batch, I also strongly suspect we'll see better in the future from Nene (on a different team with more playing time), Butler (once the Wizards figure out they need him in the starting lineup), and Deng (just too young with too much talent to write off, but he may need to realize that talent on a different team).

Finally, players I'm really keeping my fingers crossed for but fear you may be right about are Martin, Kwame, Skita, and Darko.
I can see were you are coming from with Nene, but I believe Butler has had two other opportunities (Miami and LA) and really has been inconsistent throuhout his career. I put Deng in my Bold picks for seen the best of: due to his talent and age. I am still on the fence on whether he will become a great player. As a Laker supporter I hope Kwame wakes up, but from the comments Phil Jackson has said I don't know. I hope Darko comes around as well, but I think in Detroit that will be hard. He needs to go to the Hornets or something were he will get consistent playing time which will build his confidence. Darko has talent, but we'll have to wait and see.
 

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Give Diop a few games before calling him Pryzbilla: one game does not change a career.

His last game he returned to usual form: 5 fouls in 21 minutes against the monster frontline of Atlanta
 

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Pioneer10 said:
Give Diop a few games before calling him Pryzbilla: one game does not change a career.

His last game he returned to usual form: 5 fouls in 21 minutes against the monster frontline of Atlanta
Almost as impressive of Dampier's line..

20 minutes, 6 fouls, 6 turnovers, 0 points..

:dead: I like Dallas, but damn.. They need some help down low.
 

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ralaw said:
IMHO (I'm only picking players who were picked in the yop 10 of the draft)

Seen the best of:
Kenyon Martin (2000)
Stromile Swift (2000)
Jamal Crawford (2000)
Darius Miles (2000)
Marcus Fizer (2000)
Mike Miller (2000)
DerMarr Johnson (2000)
Chris Mihm (2000)
Joel Przybilla (2000)
Keyon Dooling (2000)
Kwame Brown (2001)
Tyson Chandler (2001)
Eddy Curry (2001)
Shane Battier (2001)
Eddie Griffin (2001)
Desagana Diop (2001)
Rodney White (2001)
Nikoloz Tskitishvili (2002)
Dajuan Wagner (2002)
Mike Dunleavy (2002)
Drew Gooden (2002)
Nene Hilario (2002)
Chris Wilcox (2002)
Caron Butler (2002)
Chris Kaman (2003)
Kirk Hinrich (2003)
Michael Sweetney (2003)
Jarvis Hayes (2003)
Josh Childress (2004)
Rafael Araujo (2004)
Luke Jackson (2004)

Bold picks for seen the best of:
Joe Johnson (2001)
Jason Richardson (2001)
Pau Gasol (2001)
Yao Ming (2002)
TJ Ford (2003)
Chris Bosh (2003) unless he is traded
Carmelo Anthony (2003) ( :cry: ) I'm starting to worry for Melo'
Ben Gordon (2004)
Luol Deng (2004)

Haven't seen the best of:
Amare Stoudemire (2002)
LeBron James (2003)
Dwyane Wade (2003)
Dwight Howard (2004)
Emeka Okafor (2004)
Devin Harris (2004)
Andre Iguodala (2004)

Jury's out:
Jay Williams (2002)
Darko Milicic (2003) currently he is in the seen the best of category
Shaun Livingston (2004) currently he is haven't seen the best of

:curse:

eh, everyones got their opinion though.
 

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How has everyone seen the best of Darius Miles yet? So far this year he has been killing and is Portlands go to guy....we just need to see if it lasts
 

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Freakin' instant gratification society. At first it was players under 27, then 25, then 23...now morons write them off at 21 and 7 games into their 3rd season.


Brilliant!!!
 

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pryzbilla isnt as bad as he seems. he is an excellent shotblocker and rebounder.
 

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anyone who thinks we've seen the best of luol deng - at age 20 - needs to step away from the crack pipe.

seriously.

also going to completely disagree (with ralaw) on kirk hinrich, ben gordon, nene hilario, michael sweetney, jason richardson, pau gasol, chris bosh, chris wilcox....oh what the heck...the whole list (maybe with the exception of a few) is just OUTRAGEOUS.

but then again, everyone is entitled to their opinion. wow.

:raised_ey
 

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It isn't outlandish to think a player might have already peaked within their first few years in the NBA. There are plenty of previous instances:

Joe Smith
Damon Stoudamire
Billy Owens
Laettner
Cheaney
Jim Jackson
Vin Baker
Juwan Howard
Abdur-Rahim
Van Horn
Kenny Anderson
Francis
J.R. Rider
 

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Doug Christie was done about 3 years ago.

Peja was done after that "MVP" season. Man, if Pat Garrity had plays run for him almost everytime, im sure he could score 20 a game.

Arujo is just...awfull.

Penny Harday, im thinking that when his contract is over, he will retire.

Brian Grant...Thanks for NOTHING in L.A. Bring your nothing over to Phoniex.

Juwan Howard...good god, terrible.

Slava Medvedenko...wow im a huge Laker Fan, but this guy is USELESS!

Malik Rose... he is like a 6'6 center...WOW!
 
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