[absolutebest]

This is simple... At the end of the Nov. 19, 2004 Pacers-Pistons game at the Palace of Auburn Hills, Ben Wallace was pouting like a baby because his team was getting drilled and nailed Ronnie with a hard playoff foul the possession before Ronnie returned the favor. Download the game on the internet and you will plainly see that. I'm not vindicating anything out of line that anybody did that night, but I'm sick of 90% of sports media saying that Artest's foul instigated the brawl. That is simply not true. Ben Wallace needs to be held accountable. In my opinion--other than the cup, chair and beer throwers, of course--Big Ben and his brother were the most dispicable human beings in the stadium that night. He basically was glad our players got suspended afterwards, and he refused to accept any accountability whatsoever. It has always seemed to me that he intended to get under Ronnie's skin in order to see ifhe could get him ejected and potentially suspended (he surely knew Ron's track record). I still don't think that guy feels any remorse for what he started. Rip Hamilton was also a big time instigator, just watch his situation with Stephen Jackson. Detroit has to take some accountability for this. I'm sick of Ronnie being villified. Was he wrong? Yes! Was he the only one? No! Were the Pacers the only team in the wrong? Hell no! The only people that I have heard talk about Wallace's foul are Scoop Jackson, Chad Ford and Marc Stein. What the hell happend to objectivity? Oh, I guess making Artest the bad guy sells. Annoying.

 

[PacersguyUSA]

I agree. In terms of being in the wrong, I rank it:

1. Ben Wallace
2. John Green
3. Artest

 

[STUCKEY!]

I agree Ben Wallace reacted bad to the hard foul but how does that justify Artest going into the stands beating down the wrong fan. Also another thing that gets over looked is that Stephen Jackson goes into the stands too,to go fight.

 

[Pacers Fan]

I agree. In terms of being in the wrong, I rank it:

1. Ben Wallace
2. John Green
3. Artest

My list in terms of being wrong:

1. Chair-thrower
2. John Green
3. Stephen Jackson
4. Ben Wallace
5. Ron Artest
6. Jermaine O'Neal
7. David Harrison
8. Anthony Johnson

 

[Auggie]

as a professional athlete, going into the stands was inexcusable.

 

[DetroitDiesel]

1. The refs. So many ways they could have stopped this happening. Easiest would have been to get artest off of the scorers table.

 

[rocketeer]

Also another thing that gets over looked is that Stephen Jackson goes into the stands too,to go fight.

or to protect his teammate?

 

[rock747]

1. The refs. So many ways they could have stopped this happening. Easiest would have been to get artest off of the scorers table.

I thought it would be to eject Ben Wallace. I don't remember seeing the refs or hearing an anouncement about Ben Wallace being ejected.

 

[DJMD]

Ben Wallace is my least favourite player in basketball. No talent whatsoever. He is just a big brute. He is idiot and the league would be better off without him. Remember that Detroit was the world champions and you can't kick off one of the poster boys of the league. Ron already had a bad rep and had to be made the fall guy, they couldn't do it the so called best team in the NBA.

See fan club below.

 

[jermaine7fan]

1. John Green
2. Stephen Jackson
3. Ben Wallace
4. Pallace security
5. Ron Artest


That's my list...for the chaos...

 

[absolutebest]

The most amazing thing from that night was the composure of Rasheed Wallace. I'm also just glad that Tinsley didn't hit anyone with that pole that he had. Although I don't blame him with the amount of **** (including chairs) that was being thrown at Indiana players. They were even dumping beer on Reggie Miller in street clothes. That is disgraceful. I think in a rivalry like that, especially one that had already been decided with volatile players like Ron and Ben about to throw down, that both of them should of been ejected immediately after the skirmish started. I think that we wanted that game so badly that our emotions got the best of us. Honestly, after the Detroit fans starting going beserk, I would've been in there as well. They had to have felt like it was 20,000 on 12. Maybe not if it was Charlotte or San Antonio, but this was Detroit people.

 

[Midnight_Marauder]

Wow......the topic that will never die..

 

[RP McMurphy]

Wow......the topic that will never die..

Yeah, I was already tired of talking about this a very long time ago. Since when has "nobody" talked about this? It's been done to death on every NBA message board on the Internet.

 

[jermaine7fan]

It does seem to be dieing down a bit... but any reminders are too much. We won't stop hearing about this until Ron retires... it is sad... but true.

 

[absolutebest]

It does seem to be dieing down a bit... but any reminders are too much. We won't stop hearing about this until Ron retires... it is sad... but true.

I'm just trying to get my frustration out. Everytime the media refocuses on this topic it regurgitates my feelings about it. Especially when they get the brawl all wrong. Sorry, guys.

 

[jermaine7fan]

I'm just trying to get my frustration out. Everytime the media refocuses on this topic it regurgitates my feelings about it. Especially when they get the brawl all wrong. Sorry, guys.

It is perfectly normal to retain those feelings... many of us have just surpressed them. You may not feel better about it until Indy knocks out Detroit this year... only a few more months

 

[Geaux Tigers]

People having Ron Artest anything but number 1 on the list of people at fault need to have their head examined. What Ben Wallace did was during the course of a game. Ben Wallace is not the first and last one to use a hard foul. Hard fouls are within "play." Going into the stands is not anything close to something that happens during the course of the game. Ron Artest isn't exactly known for his soft caring play anyhow.

Biased to the max...

 

[rocketeer]

People having Ron Artest anything but number 1 on the list of people at fault need to have their head examined. What Ben Wallace did was during the course of a game. Ben Wallace is not the first and last one to use a hard foul. Hard fouls are within "play." Going into the stands is not anything close to something that happens during the course of the game. Ron Artest isn't exactly known for his soft caring play anyhow.

ron artest was the guy with the hard foul. ben wallace was the guy who came back trying to fight with a shove to the throat.

 

[jermaine7fan]

And I will garauntee that drunken John Green would have never thought to throw that cup in Ron's face... had Ben not just thrown a towel in Ron's face!

 

[jermaine7fan]

People having Ron Artest anything but number 1 on the list of people at fault need to have their head examined. What Ben Wallace did was during the course of a game. Ben Wallace is not the first and last one to use a hard foul. Hard fouls are within "play." Going into the stands is not anything close to something that happens during the course of the game. Ron Artest isn't exactly known for his soft caring play anyhow.

Biased to the max...

How is it biased? I have Stephen as the second most responsible...

Not biased... just thoroughly thought out!