[Showtyme]

I'm sorry.

But they stink...

Fizer doesn't stink. He's a good offensive player, but if you read the editorial post I wrote on the sticky... he just doesn't fit in that well with the Bulls. Maybe his style of play and all that, but he is in a minutes crunch and belongs on a team that would like to see some frontcourt offense, like Orlando or Miami.

ERob does stink. He has tremendous upside but it will be difficult to see him as the SG of the future when the Bulls are really going to begin trying to win games. He's one of those players that will have to develop off the court, in practice, and although the Bulls are very high on him (esp. since JK made him a prime target of that FA summer and is paying him well), he'll have to overcome a LOT and have some luck on his side to stay healthy and become a real contributor as a player. He cannot handle starting minutes at SG or SF, and I think that's one bad move that BC and the front office is trying to make, in throwing ERob into a starting role. Hassell is a better overall player, with more skills. And he was actually known as something of an athlete in college, you know... he's not just some average guard.

Earlier, during the regular season, RealGM had a ridiculous amount of ERob+Fizer trades. I honestly wouldn't mind if we just got back one decent frontcourt rebounding type and a secound rounder for these guys. JK does a lot with 2nd round picks, and we need rebounding. I'd even take an ERob + Fizer for Brian Grant + Miami future 2nd rounder (or even 1st rounder, protected from lottery... the Heat never make great use of their draft picks anyway, other than Butler this year). If the salaries would match up, I'd pull this trade. Injecting more youth in the future will serve a different purpose, as we might be headed towards the playoffs soon and we can have the luxury of bringing along players slowly...


I'm ready to defend my claim. Fizer might be improving and ERob might be exceptionally athletic, and I hope that the Bulls prove me wrong, but I know that a team never has some kind of amazing roster with no weaknesses... there's always one or two players that just don't fit. I'd put my money on ERob and Fizer.

 

[JOHNNY_BRAVisimO]

artest was dissapointing during his 2nd year but improved drastically on the offensive end, and ron didnt seem like he was working on his game AT ALL...


then hey says he feels his game went to a "whole new level"

brad miller has a dissapointing first season with us like erob is having now, with injuries also, and "breaks out" the next year...

why cant this happen to marcus and erob?

 

[Showtyme]

Artest wasn't that disappointing his second year.
He maintained his rookie numbers, which were good, in identical minutes. That's not a disappointment. It's only if we look back at his third year that we can say that his second year was subpar, knowing now what he is capable of.

Brad Miller, while certainly injured, was a disappointment in only that the Bulls were sad he couldn't stay healthy. When he was healthy, we were happy to see him crash boards hard and show a little scoring potential.

And to be honest with you, ERob and Fizer didn't really have disappointing seasons.. that's not why this post exists.

I think the reason that ERob and Fizer are left out in the rain is that Artest and Miller were starters, and key pieces of the team at that time. ERob and Fizer are not, and there's no reason to try to make them key pieces, either. With Hassell, Crawford, and now Mason as being perfectly skilled and functional SG's (with a lot of upside left to go with all three), with Rose manning most of the minutes at SF, and with Chandler taking 30+ mpg at PF, ERob and Fizer are simply not going to fit. It's not because they aren't good players, or that they won't become good players. It's because they just won't get enough time on the floor, because others on the team deserve it. Erob and Fizer both deserve their own share of PT as well, Fizer much more than ERob, but they 'd have to find it at other teams.

And hopefully, we're thinking the same thing.

 

[RealFan]

I think the point is rather simple.

ERob has been injured. He was very good in the preseason and early season last year. If he can fully regain his athleticism, I expect ERob to have a great year.

As for Fizer, he is still learning and growing. He will become a monster in this league.

So I think the upside for both players is substantial. I wouldn't trade either until this potential becomes reality. The downside risk of keeping both players is much less than trading them now and watching them develop into very good players.

 

[BamaBull]

Looking into my crystal balls..oops, ball!

Originally posted by RealFan
I think the point is rather simple.

ERob has been injured. He was very good in the preseason and early season last year. If he can fully regain his athleticism, I expect ERob to have a great year.

As for Fizer, he is still learning and growing. He will become a monster in this league.

So I think the upside for both players is substantial. I wouldn't trade either until this potential becomes reality. The downside risk of keeping both players is much less than trading them now and watching them develop into very good players.

I like BOTH players, at least for their obvious athletic skills. However, as it has been pointed out numerous times, Fizer, by virtue of his ability to score and slowly improving defense(okay, I said slowly!)WILL demand more playing time..EROB in contrast, cannot, or has not stayed healthy enough to "gel" along with the rest of the players. Therefore, EROB, because of his "physical condition", will remain as a back up/Injured list candidate and CANNOT be dumped. A backup used sparingly so he will NOT "re-injur" his big toe. Fizer, on the other hand will be dealt, probably shortly after the free agent signing period to Orlando. (Just a gut feeling guys.) I really feel this is a trade tha would help both teams. Fizer/Best(sign and trade) for Mike Miller and filler.

(Marking it on my calendar!! LOL)

 

[Showtyme]

Big picture here. I feel that my stance is really worth defending.

A team is not simply the quality of its players. A team is taking the key pieces and building the correct roles to fill in around them. You can't just take a bunch of excellent players and put them on the floor together.

No one ever mentions the Fizer-Curry chemistry, or the Fizer-Crawford chemistry, or the Fizer-Rose chemistry. By no one, I mean not only the people on this board, but the players themselves never mention Fizer. Why not?

I watched him play once. He is a good player. He can take his defenders one on one. I saw him drive past Garnett for a dunk last winter. He has decent quickness and can put the ball on the floor, although he'll stun no one with flashy handles or crossovers. He can rebound, when he tries, and his rebounding efforts improved over the season.

Eddie Robinson is also a good player. The Bulls like him more, as well, especially after dishing out the contract to him. He's athletic and can be a decent player. But he is chronically injured, and he really doesn't have a jump shot. What kind of shooting guard lacks a jumper? The Bulls must see a drastic improvement in his offseason training to consider starting him at SG. It seemed to me that even Eddie himself knew his own limitations as a shooter... in 163 career games, he took only 13 3-point shots, sinking 4 of them.

But the fact is, Robinson belongs on another team, like the Clippers or even the Mavericks, where they can use his athleticism with a fast-tempo offensive game. The Bulls are fast and athletic too, but they need to work on scoring in general, and that means having guys that can shoot the ball. Crawford, Hassell, and Rose are all better jump shooters than Robinson. That's just how it is.

The arguments that people have presented for keeping Fizer and Robinson mostly revolve around their potential to really play the game. But my argument is that they are almost TOO talented, and will get squeezed for minutes as well as be counterproductive in filling the roles needed to support the true stars, in Chandler, Curry, Rose, Williams and perhaps Crawford. Fizer and Robinson are too good to be shaped and molded into good role players to come off the bench and do the things that benches are expected to do: score in bunches, play an elite level of defense, and crash boards.

They can stay for a season, and if somehow Robinson shows himself to be a different player than what I'm putting him down for, then maybe he'll stay around, especially since he's difficult to trade. But Fizer won't stay. At the max, he'll be for his third and probably fourth year, but that's it. He won't want to stay, and we don't particularly want him to stay either.

 

[CHawk]

Re: Looking into my crystal balls..oops, ball!

Originally posted by BamaBull


I like BOTH players, at least for their obvious athletic skills. However, as it has been pointed out numerous times, Fizer, by virtue of his ability to score and slowly improving defense(okay, I said slowly!)WILL demand more playing time..EROB in contrast, cannot, or has not stayed healthy enough to "gel" along with the rest of the players. Therefore, EROB, because of his "physical condition", will remain as a back up/Injured list candidate and CANNOT be dumped. A backup used sparingly so he will NOT "re-injur" his big toe. Fizer, on the other hand will be dealt, probably shortly after the free agent signing period to Orlando. (Just a gut feeling guys.) I really feel this is a trade tha would help both teams. Fizer/Best(sign and trade) for Mike Miller and filler.

(Marking it on my calendar!! LOL)

I think You are on it there Bama!....I can see that trade happenning as well man. And You are right, I think the trade works for both teams.
Plus, I will be Stoked for the opportunity Fizer would have to start down in Orlando!
I still say that if Marcus had starters minutes, (35+) 17 pts, 8 rebs. wouldn't be much of a stretch for him to achieve.

 

[Showtyme]

[No message]

 

[Showtyme]

Fizer should be in Orlando. That makes sense. They need a lot of scoring up front.

I would like to see us get some decent "filler" back with Miller, like Don Reid. Don Reid is a hard worker and stayed in this league with unspectacular stats but a lot of sweat. He'd be a perfect backup PF for Chandler.

 

[truebluefan]

Orlando still has interest in fizer. But they want Crawford too and JK said no. At least according to a new suntimes article.

 

[Wishbone]

seems like every team that will consider trading with the Bulls, wants us to 'throw in' Crawford as filler


it seems like, everyone knows he's a talent, but since he hasn't shown a great deal on the court, he's not officially a "good" player... therefore, he's just garbage to be thrown in on a trade with the "serious" players

personally, i'm sick of seeing this happen in nearly every trade rumor. i think that, for the moment, Craw should be off limits for trades -- if nothing else, just to see how he plays in a full season. there are other factors at play -- how he plays with guys like Jay and Jalen -- is he gonna slash to the basket, is he gonna dish out many assists

all these things NEED to be answered before the Bulls even consider shipping him out


so for the rest of this offseason-- shoot down any trade rumor that includes Craw!:grinning: