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Discussion Starter #1
Martin, $92.5 million; Kittles, $10.2 million; Mourning, $17.7 million; Aaron Williams, $6.7 million; Eric Williams, $11.6 million; Khryapa, $3.2 million; Nets' second round choice in 2007...

in return for:

Carter, $57.9 million; Robinson, $5.2 million; Campbell,$4.4 million; Eddie Gill, $0; the Clips first round choice in 2006, a $5 million and a $728,000 trade exception and $3 million in cash.

Net gain in long term salary commitments and cash payments for the Nets: $77.3 million...or roughly what the Nets have committed to Jefferson.

[Calculations includes contracts this year at full value even though contracts were traded at different times. Doesn't include team options--Khryapa and Robinson--but does include player option--Carter].
 

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NetIncome said:
Martin, $92.5 million; Kittles, $10.2 million; Mourning, $17.7 million; Aaron Williams, $6.7 million; Eric Williams, $11.6 million; Khryapa, $3.2 million; Nets' second round choice in 2007...

in return for:

Carter, $57.9 million; Robinson, $5.2 million; Campbell,$4.4 million; Eddie Gill, $0; the Clips first round choice in 2006, a $5 million and a $728,000 trade exception and $3 million in cash.

Net gain in long term salary commitments and cash payments for the Nets: $77.3 million...or roughly what the Nets have committed to Jefferson.

[Calculations includes contracts this year at full value even though contracts were traded at different times. Doesn't include team options--Khryapa and Robinson--but does include player option--Carter].

Whenever you post something like this, I'll be there to say that the Nets didn't have to pay Kenyon $92.5 million. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
And every time you post that, I will post my mantra: "KMart got his money. We got Vince Carter. I'm happy."

Even if that was an even up swap, and it wasn't--we got a draft pick, the Nets got a six time all star who is playing the best all around basketball of his career for a guy who is the same age but seems to have peaked.

Finally, there is all this outrage at how Thorn didn't offer KMart a deal last year but no outrage over KMart rejecting the Nets INITIAL offer in 2003 by demanding a trade. As the late and unlamented ataxo said of KMart, "Thorn thinks he is a bit of a knucklehead".
 

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NetIncome said:
As the late and unlamented ataxo said of KMart, "Thorn thinks he is a bit of a knucklehead".
I can't believe YOU of all people are using ataxo's statements to defend your point of view. Oh wait, yes I can.
 

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NetIncome said:
And every time you post that, I will post my mantra: "KMart got his money. We got Vince Carter. I'm happy."

Even if that was an even up swap, and it wasn't--we got a draft pick, the Nets got a six time all star who is playing the best all around basketball of his career for a guy who is the same age but seems to have peaked.

Finally, there is all this outrage at how Thorn didn't offer KMart a deal last year but no outrage over KMart rejecting the Nets INITIAL offer in 2003 by demanding a trade. As the late and unlamented ataxo said of KMart, "Thorn thinks he is a bit of a knucklehead".
Lets not rewrite history. Actually, there was a ton of outrage directed at Kenyon for the way he handled the negotiations in 2003. Quite a bit of it at nj.com was from you, but there were several others as well. Kenyon believed he was still developing and saw no reason to settle for Thorn's offer. As far as the trade demand, it wasn't a big deal then and in retrospect it wasn't a real issue after all.

I know that you love to state that you believe Kenyon has peaked, but you are completely wrong. Yes his PPG & RPG are less than last season, but stats don't tell the story. Watch him play and you will someone that is even better than last year.
 

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schub said:
Whenever you post something like this, I'll be there to say that the Nets didn't have to pay Kenyon $92.5 million. :)
There was a different in opinion, where KMart or his agent felt he was worth more. After KMart's first offer from Thorn, he asked to be traded instead of making a counter offer. They were going to FA... we all saw it.

And with that, he was going to take the top offer. The Max and what Thorn offered where so different, there were no counter offers... or were there?

-Petey
 

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NetIncome said:
And every time you post that, I will post my mantra: "KMart got his money. We got Vince Carter. I'm happy."
That's fine. Just count Kenyon's salary to the Nets as $78 or 80 million whenever you do one of these comparisons. Because, counting it as $92 could be interpreted as "spin." ;)
 

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Petey said:
And with that, he was going to take the top offer. The Max and what Thorn offered where so different, there were no counter offers... or were there?

-Petey
He stated all along that he wanted to stay in NJ. After visits with the Nuggets and Hawks, he stated it. The Nets made no effort to even talk to him during the 15-day negotiation period. If they made the effort, he would likely have signed for far less than what he got in Denver.
 

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schub said:
He stated all along that he wanted to stay in NJ. After visits with the Nuggets and Hawks, he stated it. The Nets made no effort to even talk to him during the 15-day negotiation period. If they made the effort, he would likely have signed for far less than what he got in Denver.
Did he (or his agent) make a counter offer? I realize making a counter offer weakens them and what they may get... but that would have been more of a sign he would have stayed.

I thought Thorn did offer to match the Nuggets contract later too?

-Petey
 

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Petey said:
Did he (or his agent) make a counter offer? I realize making a counter offer weakens them and what they may get... but that would have been more of a sign he would have stayed.

-Petey
Counter offer to what? The Nets never made one.

They may have made some sort of offer at the end, but he was fed up with them at that point. They made no effort to keep him.
 

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I would like to say that I agree wholeheartedly w/ schub's position on the whole Kenyon contract thingy.
 

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schub said:
Counter offer to what? The Nets never made one.

They may have made some sort of offer at the end, but he was fed up with them at that point. They made no effort to keep him.
Their orignal offer of 66 million was pulled off the table?

-Petey
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Cant get over it, can you all?

I actually find it quite funny--really--that after all this, after watching Vince Carter again become one of the best players in the NBA, that people still pine for KMart. Vince Carter at 28 is a lot better building block than Kenyon Martin and as a GM, I am sure Thorn likes the idea of having a choice of resigning Carter at 30 than wondering what kind of year KMart will have at 34 when he will be making $16.6 million.

KMart had an offer in 2003. He rejected it. He demanded a trade. He was petty, a distraction. He wanted the max, but for some reason that has no relevance, no basis in fact, some fans think he would have settled for $80 million. Why? Did he ever says he would settle for $75 or $80 million? If he said it after the Denver deal, does it have any real relevance? He got his money. We got Vince Carter.

There was SOME outrage at the time, but most fans thought he deserved more, deserved the max. There was a lot more outrage directed at Thorn in 2004. Thorn was right. He has shown he is not worth what he got.

As for whether his game has peaked, the very fact that it's debateable makes it indeed relevant and indeed possible.

Keep pining boys. Nice player, KMart...not worth the money he got and never will be.
 

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NetIncome said:
As for whether his game has peaked, the very fact that it's debateable makes it indeed relevant and indeed possible.
It isn't debateable. You mention it but you are wrong. Just because somebody makes a statement, that doesn't make something debateable.

Consider the statement: Spud Webb was the greatest shot blocker of all time. This isn't a debateable statement, but by your logic, because I mentioned it, it is suddenly debateable.
 

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NetIncome said:
Cant get over it, can you all?

I actually find it quite funny--really--that after all this, after watching Vince Carter again become one of the best players in the NBA, that people still pine for KMart. Vince Carter at 28 is a lot better building block than Kenyon Martin and as a GM, I am sure Thorn likes the idea of having a choice of resigning Carter at 30 than wondering what kind of year KMart will have at 34 when he will be making $16.6 million.

KMart had an offer in 2003. He rejected it. He demanded a trade. He was petty, a distraction. He wanted the max, but for some reason that has no relevance, no basis in fact, some fans think he would have settled for $80 million. Why? Did he ever says he would settle for $75 or $80 million? If he said it after the Denver deal, does it have any real relevance? He got his money. We got Vince Carter.

There was SOME outrage at the time, but most fans thought he deserved more, deserved the max. There was a lot more outrage directed at Thorn in 2004. Thorn was right. He has shown he is not worth what he got.

As for whether his game has peaked, the very fact that it's debateable makes it indeed relevant and indeed possible.

Keep pining boys. Nice player, KMart...not worth the money he got and never will be.
Letting Kmart go was a mistake. Getting VC back was a great stroke of luck that arguably has put the franchise in a better position for the future now than it would have been w/ Kmart. But we needed a lucky, LUCKY break to get Vince.
 

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Yep, he demanded a trade which was taken back as the season wore on. There was actually rumors of a RWallace trade mid year.
 

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NetIncome said:
Cant get over it, can you all?

I actually find it quite funny--really--that after all this, after watching Vince Carter again become one of the best players in the NBA, that people still pine for KMart.
Who's pining?


NetIncome said:
Vince Carter at 28 is a lot better building block than Kenyon Martin and as a GM, I am sure Thorn likes the idea of having a choice of resigning Carter at 30 than wondering what kind of year KMart will have at 34 when he will be making $16.6 million.
Getting Carter was a great trade. Awesome deal for the Nets, but please don't use Kenyon's salary numbers in Denver when making the comparison. That salary means nothing.


NetIncome said:
Did he ever says he would settle for $75 or $80 million?
Did the Nets ever offer it?

Seriously, nobody's pining. You started the thread to compare the Nets now vs. what they would have been if they re-signed Kenyon. I'm just saying that your comparison is not valid unless you reduce the salary.
 
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