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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
From today's Washington Post:

The Washington Wizards will sign veteran forward Charles Oakley, 38, to a one-year, $1 million contract by the end of the weekend, adding much-needed experience to their front court and candor to their locker room, a league source confirmed today. Washington has 18 players in training camp and must trim its roster to 15 before the Oct. 30 season opener. Horacio Llamas, Ratko Varda, Brian Cardinal, Rod Grizzard and Bobby Simmons are in the most peril.

Who in their right mind would prefer to have Oakley on their roster instead of a productive player like Popeye Jones? I don't see the logic in this at all. It's just my opinion, but Jordan seems to be interested in making himself as comfortable as possible in his final season as an active player by surrounding himself with older players. I guess the youth movement will be put on hold for one more season. The Wiz have some nice young talent that needs to play if the team is to improve for the long term. Well, maybe they'll get their minutes next year.
 

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Originally posted by <b>laso</b>!
I think it's a good move by Washington. MJ will keep Oak from running his mouth.
yeah rigth , he didn't stop rodman pippen or oakley from (the 1st time) from running their
 

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Decent move.

The Wiz are looking at a front line of Etan Thomas, Kwame Brown, and a recovering (from injury) Jahidi White. They need all the help they can get. Guess Jordan's got a poker buddy now too.



VD
 

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Decent move? Signing Charles Oakley? Come on! Oak's terrible! He's going to be a royal pain in the arse for Doug Collins and MJ will eventually tire of his bad shot selection and lack of heart. Oak was a valuable player a few years ago, but the game has passed him by. All he's interested in is collecting a check. His signing is a joke!:laugh:
 

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If he plays like he did in Toronto, when he was hiting open jumpshots, playing good defense, and rebounding, I wouldn't mind his old ***. I'm guessing he'll get minutes at backup center until Jahidi comes back. Then his old *** will probably get cut or be put on IR. Hell, he's no worse than Corey Blount.
 

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Originally posted by <b>MyBallsStillHurt</b>!
Decent move? Signing Charles Oakley? Come on! Oak's terrible! He's going to be a royal pain in the arse for Doug Collins and MJ will eventually tire of his bad shot selection and lack of heart. Oak was a valuable player a few years ago, but the game has passed him by. All he's interested in is collecting a check. His signing is a joke!:laugh:
I am assuming you are making these assumptions about Oakley based on his stay in Chicago. That's fine. Chicago was a crucible for him: too many losses, too many minutes, and coach Tim 'Pink' Floyd. Contrary to what you may believe, Oakley was servicable last season b/c he looked after the kids and watched their back on the court. Put Oakley on a veteran squad that wins some games (like the Wiz and previously the Raptors), and he'll grab some boards, be an enforcer, and provide a good example of work ethic for the young kids.

Sure resigning Popeye would have been better, but Oak was signed to play limited minutes and give them another veteran body. He will not be asked to do half as much as he was with the Bulls. And no, he will not be a pain to MJ (his old teammate and friend) and coach Collins (his old coach). Please.


VD
 

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A very minor signing. Is there anyone who will lose a roster spot on the Wiz who projects as a legit NBA player? If so, it's a bad move. If not, what's the harm?

I'm not sure how much NBA utility Oakley has left. The Wiz will find out. Will he pop off on the Wiz like he did on the Bulls? Maybe, if things go bad for the Wiz. However, being nothing more than a minor role player, it really won't matter much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Originally posted by <b>Vin Diesel</b>!


I am assuming you are making these assumptions about Oakley based on his stay in Chicago. That's fine. Chicago was a crucible for him: too many losses, too many minutes, and coach Tim 'Pink' Floyd. Contrary to what you may believe, Oakley was servicable last season b/c he looked after the kids and watched their back on the court. Put Oakley on a veteran squad that wins some games (like the Wiz and previously the Raptors), and he'll grab some boards, be an enforcer, and provide a good example of work ethic for the young kids.

Sure resigning Popeye would have been better, but Oak was signed to play limited minutes and give them another veteran body. He will not be asked to do half as much as he was with the Bulls. And no, he will not be a pain to MJ (his old teammate and friend) and coach Collins (his old coach). Please.
VD
Wow! Speak no evil, see no evil and hear no evil when it comes to old Sawdust, huh VD? Are you honestly suggesting that he'd have performed better last season if the Bulls had been a contending ballclub? The man got paid over $7 million last season! I don't care who you play for...when you're being paid that much cash aren't you under some sort of moral obligation to do your best regardless of where your team is in the standings?

As for looking after the kids (Chandler and Curry), that was Wennington's job. Oh, and remember all that arm/shoulder trouble he had last year that affected his shooting:laugh:and kept him on the injured list when the Bulls were desperate for warm bodies? Funny how he never missed a workout in the weight room all season...and that's a fact. Here's another fact: everyone in the organization knows he laid down and quit on the team. Krause did the only thing he could do to pay back Oakley for stealing a paycheck: he kept him on the roster the entire season so he couldn't hook up with a playoff team. Stop and think...if it wasn't for his buddy MJeff, Oakley would still be a free agent. Other teams saw how he behaved last year and wanted no part of him this season.

I tend to agree with ESPN's Insider about the impact Sawdust will have on the Wiz:

While he may not start, the only rationale behind adding Oakley is to give him serious minutes in an effort to stabilize the frontline. But with Brown and Thomas both fighting for minutes, the addition of Oakley is probably another step back in the Wizards' on-again, off-again youth movement.

As for what he meant to the Bulls last season, consider this interpretation:

While Oakley's contract won't hurt the team, you only have to look to Chicago to see the effect he had on the development of the Bulls' young power forwards. Oakley's playing time seriously cut into Marcus Fizer and Tyson Chandler's minutes last season. Once the season was beyond hope, Oakley was forced to stew on the bench while Fizer and Chandler stumbled their way through the season.

Well, at least he'll only be able to steal $1 million from the Wiz this season.:angel:
 

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Originally posted by <b>DickieHurtz</b>!
As for what he meant to the Bulls last season, consider this interpretation [from ESPN's Insider]:

While Oakley's contract won't hurt the team, you only have to look to Chicago to see the effect he had on the development of the Bulls' young power forwards. Oakley's playing time seriously cut into Marcus Fizer and Tyson Chandler's minutes last season. Once the season was beyond hope, Oakley was forced to stew on the bench while Fizer and Chandler stumbled their way through the season.
This is an interesting arguement, but I don't agree. Both Fizer and Chandler got plenty of time last year IMHO to learn about their strengths and weaknesses. Chandler, the main benefactor in the reduction in Oakley's minutes, in particular was running out of steam at the end of the year.
 

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Originally posted by <b>DickieHurtz</b>!
Wow! Speak no evil, see no evil and hear no evil when it comes to old Sawdust, huh VD? Are you honestly suggesting that he'd have performed better last season if the Bulls had been a contending ballclub? The man got paid over $7 million last season! I don't care who you play for...when you're being paid that much cash aren't you under some sort of moral obligation to do your best regardless of where your team is in the standings?
The fact that Oakley made $7 million is of little impact here. Jerry K could have kept Brian Skinner (signed one season at 1.5 million), but instead chose to trade for Oak and a 2nd round pick. He was brought in to take care of the kids, both on the court and off. Could he have performed better on another team? Yes. He was given too many minutes with too little talent surrounding him. Oak, at this point in his career, is a banger and rebounding best suited for 10-20 minutes a night. The BUlls knowingly took him w/ his large contract. They knew what was involved w/ Oak.

As for looking after the kids (Chandler and Curry), that was Wennington's job.
Huh? Bill Wennington isn't an assistant coach for the BUlls. He goes to games, probably grabs a seat on the bench, but I have yet to hear of him 'tutoring' or 'mentoring' the kids. Provide me a link and I'll believe it. This is news to me.

Oh, and remember all that arm/shoulder trouble he had last year that affected his shooting:laugh:and kept him on the injured list when the Bulls were desperate for warm bodies? Funny how he never missed a workout in the weight room all season...and that's a fact. Here's another fact: everyone in the organization knows he laid down and quit on the team. Krause did the only thing he could do to pay back Oakley for stealing a paycheck: he kept him on the roster the entire season so he couldn't hook up with a playoff team.
Krause was not retaliating for 'stealing a paycheck'. Geez. He traded for the guy. He was however probably peeved at the negative comments made about managment, and in particular directed toward Floyd.

Stop and think...if it wasn't for his buddy MJeff, Oakley would still be a free agent. Other teams saw how he behaved last year and wanted no part of him this season.
Which is why he was mentioned this offseason as possibly going to the Magic, Lakers, and other teams in need of a veteran banger.

I tend to agree with ESPN's Insider about the impact Sawdust will have on the Wiz:

While he may not start, the only rationale behind adding Oakley is to give him serious minutes in an effort to stabilize the frontline. But with Brown and Thomas both fighting for minutes, the addition of Oakley is probably another step back in the Wizards' on-again, off-again youth movement.[/COLOR]
Quoteth ESPN, via Marc Stein:

Eyes rolled on the first day of camp when Kwame Brown reported a sore hamstring, with the Wiz intent on trying to toughen the kid up. But Brown has since played himself into a shot at opening the season as Washington's starting power forward, helped along by Etan Thomas (the preseason favorite) missing time with his own health issues. Brown will again be shielded from scrutiny to a degree with Jordan and Stackhouse around, but Collins has acknowledged that the Wiz power-brokers (himself included) have to reach Brown this season and help the 2001 No. 1 overall pick establish an NBA comfort level. Quickly....Stackhouse, for one, would love to see Charles Oakley sign on to supply some toughness up front...

I don't think anyone sees Oakley as 'stealing' minutes from the kids. Did Ford dig up that on Insider? Man oh man.

As for what he meant to the Bulls last season, consider this interpretation:

While Oakley's contract won't hurt the team, you only have to look to Chicago to see the effect he had on the development of the Bulls' young power forwards. Oakley's playing time seriously cut into Marcus Fizer and Tyson Chandler's minutes last season. Once the season was beyond hope, Oakley was forced to stew on the bench while Fizer and Chandler stumbled their way through the season.
I don't think giving Oakley minutes hampered the 'development' of Fizer and Chandler. Gotta agree w/ what johnston said on this one. Chandler is one year out of HS, got the starting nod most of the second half, and enjoyed major minutes all year. Fizer played his way into the 6th man role and still got 25 minutes a game. If anything the competition was between Fizer AND Chandler, not with Oak.


Well, at least he'll only be able to steal $1 million from the Wiz this season.:angel:
1 year at 1 million is a good deal. Stack and McGrady have both privately campaigned to have him on their squads this offseason. I think they see something that many fans don't. An enforcer, veteran scrapper... and a decent deal at 1 mil per.


VD
 

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VD, you and I see things roughly the same on this one.

A few comments.....

Originally posted by <b>Vin Diesel</b>!
The fact that Oakley made $7 million is of little impact here. Jerry K could have kept Brian Skinner (signed one season at 1.5 million), but instead chose to trade for Oak and a 2nd round pick.
Well, JK could have found a better option with the $6M in cap space IMHO, but that is another thread...

Originally posted by <b>Vin Diesel</b>!
If anything the competition was between Fizer AND Chandler, not with Oak.
I thought about this after my first post and Oakley actually acted like a buffer between Fizer and Chandler directly competeting for minutes.

Imagine the team without Oak. Fizer probably needs to play HEAVY minutes at the start of last season and throughout the year would lose minutes to Chandler. Instead, the way that the Bulls used Fizer was pretty consistant all last year as was his minutes. This beats the zero-sum game (i.e. every minute that Chandler earns is taken away from Fizer). This may have been an accident, but a happy one at that.

J
 

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Oakley's not a bad signing for the Wiz. At this point he's basically a lesser version of Popeye Jones. I just have to laugh at all the Wiz fans who delighted in criticizing Krause last year for bringing him in.

By their own words, Curry and Chandler clearly benefited from their exposure to Charles. This'll be another interesting point of comparison for them and Kwame.
 

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Okay guys, you're probably right - Oak's a good cheap signing for the Wiz. For a washed-up 97 year old man, he brings a lot to the table. He's not a divisive force at all. He's great leadership personified and because he'll now be re-united with MJeff, his legs and heart will be restored. You're probably right, it was Tim Floyd's fault that Oak couldn't hit a jumper last year to save his life. Floyd, Krause and all the young Bulls were the reason Oak wouldn't mix it up down low last season, instead he would "run" between free throw lines and launch whacky jumpers or throw the ball away - when he did dress out.

VD - you're right, Bill Wennington just "went to" games last year. He didn't have any function with the Bulls other than taking up a seat to help fill the arenas. It was Oak who taught the young guys how to get ripped off by leaving $50k worth of jewelry in a limo while you're partying at 3:00 AM after a game. You can't get those kind of life lessons from just anybody. :uhoh:

Naw, Oak's worth EVERY penny for what he's going to bring to the Wiz. As someone said, TMac really wanted him on the Magic and the Lakers were very interested in him as well. Too bad neither team lifted a finger to sign his sorry ***.

You guys are right, it'll be great to see Fred Sanford back in the NBA this season. :banana:
 

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Originally posted by <b>MyBallsStillHurt</b>!
Okay guys, you're probably right - Oak's a good cheap signing for the Wiz. For a washed-up 97 year old man, he brings a lot to the table. He's not a divisive force at all. He's great leadership personified and because he'll now be re-united with MJeff, his legs and heart will be restored. You're probably right, it was Tim Floyd's fault that Oak couldn't hit a jumper last year to save his life. Floyd, Krause and all the young Bulls were the reason Oak wouldn't mix it up down low last season, instead he would "run" between free throw lines and launch whacky jumpers or throw the ball away - when he did dress out.
Oak is signed for one year at one million. With that Corey Blount-esque contract, he should probably see Blount-esque production and minutes too (4pts, 5+ rpg). He was not signed as a panacea, or even to start for that matter. Geez. He gives the Wiz another veteran body down low. All indications are that Kwame looks great at the 4, and he'll get the most minutes there.

VD - you're right, Bill Wennington just "went to" games last year. He didn't have any function with the Bulls other than taking up a seat to help fill the arenas. It was Oak who taught the young guys how to get ripped off by leaving $50k worth of jewelry in a limo while you're partying at 3:00 AM after a game. You can't get those kind of life lessons from just anybody.
The incident you are referring to happen at Paje, a nightclub a couple blocks away from my apartment. ITs a great place, professional athletes go there all the time, and their Escalades block Milwaukee Ave most weekends. He wasn't with Curry or Chandler that night. Sorry. And no Sunday March 24th was not a game night either.

A similar incident happened to Rose when he was with the Pacers, yet the value of his jewelry was upwards of 200k. In other words, this happens to many professional athletes, not just Mr. Oakley.


Naw, Oak's worth EVERY penny for what he's going to bring to the Wiz. As someone said, TMac really wanted him on the Magic and the Lakers were very interested in him as well. Too bad neither team lifted a finger to sign his sorry ***.

You guys are right, it'll be great to see Fred Sanford back in the NBA this season.
I'm not defending Oak for a 'great' season with the Bulls. He was overpaid, overused, and a poor fit for the young Bulls despite some positives he brought. But the guy signed for 1yr. at 1 million. Gawd. He'll be given little minutes and will be a decent fit with his old coach and old buddy MJ. He's another veteran body and the Wiz will need all the bodies they can get when they make their playoff run.


VD
 

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Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
Oakley's not a bad signing for the Wiz. At this point he's basically a lesser version of Popeye Jones. I just have to laugh at all the Wiz fans who delighted in criticizing Krause last year for bringing him in.

By their own words, Curry and Chandler clearly benefited from their exposure to Charles. This'll be another interesting point of comparison for them and Kwame.
If Oakley doesn't work out, I will criticize Jordan. The only difference between Jordan signing Oak and Krause trading for Oak is that Jordan gets to play with Oak. If Oak's old *** doesn't perform, he's out of there.

And btw what Wiz fans are you talking about? I don't know a single Wiz fan who cared enough to criticize the Bulls for bringing Oak in.
 

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I believe he is trying to reference me.

I don't see what is so amusing. What I found amusing was all the Bulls' fans defending him when Oakley did exactly what I said he would do with the Bulls.
 

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Originally posted by <b>BCH</b>!
I believe he is trying to reference me.

I don't see what is so amusing. What I found amusing was all the Bulls' fans defending him when Oakley did exactly what I said he would do with the Bulls.
I'm sure most Bulls criticism can be traced back to you in one way or another, but I wasn't pointing out anyone specifically. On the other board there was a flood of sanctimonious "Thank God we don't have that sort of person around Kwame" crow that now needs to be eaten.

If you predicted that Oakley was finished as a player, I tip my cap to you. I honestly thought he could still put up something like 10 and 9 if given the court time, not to mention get the fourth quarter defensive rebounds that just killed the Bulls the year before. But forget about his mindset or the losing team or any of those other factors--he's just not capable of that anymore.

If you predicted that Oakley would have a negative effect on the team or fail in his intended role of mentor to Curry and Chandler, you were wrong. Anything Oakley did to hasten the Floyd divorce has to be considered a positive, and Curry and Chandler go out of their way to mention how much he meant to them last year.

You can rightfully criticize Oakley for some of the garbage that comes out of his mouth or some of the scraps he's gotten into outside of basketball, but I can't think of anyone who's done a better job of keeping himself physically and mentally prepared to play NBA basketball.

If Michael Jordan's work ethic can rub off on younger players, why can't Charles Oakley's?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Originally posted by <b>BCH</b>!
I believe he is trying to reference me.

I don't see what is so amusing. What I found amusing was all the Bulls' fans defending him when Oakley did exactly what I said he would do with the Bulls.
And now Sawdust is going to have an opportunity to break out all his tired old material and try it out on the Wizards' media and fans. What is it they say about those who do not learn from history?

Oakley is known for his honesty; he concedes that he doesn't tolerate "nonsense" and in the past has not hesitated to speak his mind. "If something's going wrong with the players, I'll let them know," Oakley said. "If management's slipping, I'll let them know. I'm not going to take one side. I try to make sure things are right." :laugh: :rolleyes: :grinning: :rofl: :hurl: :jump:
 
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