Professional and College Basketball Forums banner

41 - 52 of 52 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,189 Posts
Interesting tweet from Dan Bernstein:

https://twitter.com/dan_bernstein

#Bulls sources: at least three starters ripped Thibs in exit interview, said they'd avoid team facility this summer if he were still there.
I have suspected for a while there was tension with Thibs and players. But very little reported on it. The lid comes off now that Thibs is gone. This stuff is all related...front office gets involved because there are issues with Thibs being unreasonable with his players. Thibs gets mad because the front office is invading his turf. It's an ugly cycle once it starts.

I am 99% sure one of the guys referenced here is Noah, and suspect another is Jimmy Butler. Just my opinion. Noah has said stuff in the past like "I'd hate Thibs if we weren't winning"; jokingly I guess but maybe some truth to it. Jimmy Butler interestingly had a quote not long ago, I think about his MIP or all-star selection, where he gushed about how much Adrian Griffin helped him become who he is as a player; no mention of Thibs, though, which I thought was telling.

Hard to say where Rose's relationship with Thibs stands at the moment.
 

·
We Warriors
Joined
·
15,623 Posts
suggestion:
Hire someone like Steve Kerr with no coaching experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,297 Posts
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/bulls/2013/07/01/gar-forman-tom-thibodeau-chicago-ron-adams/2480893/


essentially from this i get that the front office demands that you go along with their decisions because its not your place to judge their decisions but to work with the players they bring in .

everybody just does their job. but at the same time if you have a problem you handle it within the org.

butting in with things like minutes restrictions and leaking their version of the events to local press seem to be an overstepping of their bounds by even their protocols.
This happens in every sport, in almost every organization. The Bulls history of reacting to what their coaches do or say are borderline maniacal. You don't fire one of the best assistant coaches in the game just because he disagreed with the questionable moves the front office made.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,297 Posts
Interesting tweet from Dan Bernstein:

https://twitter.com/dan_bernstein



I have suspected for a while there was tension with Thibs and players. But very little reported on it. The lid comes off now that Thibs is gone. This stuff is all related...front office gets involved because there are issues with Thibs being unreasonable with his players. Thibs gets mad because the front office is invading his turf. It's an ugly cycle once it starts.

I am 99% sure one of the guys referenced here is Noah, and suspect another is Jimmy Butler. Just my opinion. Noah has said stuff in the past like "I'd hate Thibs if we weren't winning"; jokingly I guess but maybe some truth to it. Jimmy Butler interestingly had a quote not long ago, I think about his MIP or all-star selection, where he gushed about how much Adrian Griffin helped him become who he is as a player; no mention of Thibs, though, which I thought was telling.

Hard to say where Rose's relationship with Thibs stands at the moment.
I'm fairly certain one of the guys for sure is Gasol. I find it very hard to believe that Rose, Noah or Butler "Ripped" Thibs. The whole statement just screams overstatement, "At Least 3 starters" ?! Are they current starters or guys who started over the course of a season. Doug started, Snell started, I would not be surprised if they were the other 2 guys complaining.
 

·
X-Mas Taker
Joined
·
8,947 Posts
Interesting tweet from Dan Bernstein:

https://twitter.com/dan_bernstein



I have suspected for a while there was tension with Thibs and players. But very little reported on it. The lid comes off now that Thibs is gone. This stuff is all related...front office gets involved because there are issues with Thibs being unreasonable with his players. Thibs gets mad because the front office is invading his turf. It's an ugly cycle once it starts.

I am 99% sure one of the guys referenced here is Noah, and suspect another is Jimmy Butler. Just my opinion. Noah has said stuff in the past like "I'd hate Thibs if we weren't winning"; jokingly I guess but maybe some truth to it. Jimmy Butler interestingly had a quote not long ago, I think about his MIP or all-star selection, where he gushed about how much Adrian Griffin helped him become who he is as a player; no mention of Thibs, though, which I thought was telling.

Hard to say where Rose's relationship with Thibs stands at the moment.
if i had to pick who had tension it wouldnt be rose it would be gasol, thibs has had rose's back since day 1 while gasol is a vet who probably bristles at thibs overt intensity ...he's a 14 yr. vet who probably has had enough of the grueling practices to last a lifetime.

add to that thibs habit of camping out at the berto waiting like a lonely dog for anyone to come in is probably grating after a while , i think of luol's story of how he realized thibs was different as endearing when he was at the gym when luol thought it was empty and put him through a draining workout , but sometimes people want their downtime or simply alone time to shoot around and be by themselves , thibs doesn't strike me as a give a guy space kind of guy. workaholics rarely are .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,189 Posts
Mike Wilbon had a report today as well which basically says much of the same things (can't find a link, but there are guys talking about it on realgm).

I was going to say Gasol wouldn't likely be in that group because he hasn't been here that long, and tends to stick very PC with his answers.
 

·
X-Mas Taker
Joined
·
8,947 Posts
This happens in every sport, in almost every organization. The Bulls history of reacting to what their coaches do or say are borderline maniacal. You don't fire one of the best assistant coaches in the game just because he disagreed with the questionable moves the front office made.
it speaks to their mentality which i find hypocritical and overbearing.

which is why they find coaches who are borderline desperate for an opportunity.

established coaches dont tolerate this stuff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,189 Posts
If these reports are true (Wilbon, Bernstein) about what multiple Bulls players have opened up and said, there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides.

You can bet this situation further ups the pressure on Gar at the very least, and perhaps Paxson (though probably less so given his role), to deliver on the Hoiberg hire and capitalizing on the next couple draft picks. If things start to crumble for the next 2-3 seasons, I could see someone like Gar getting ousted from the front office.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,500 Posts
Mike Wilbon had a report today as well which basically says much of the same things (can't find a link, but there are guys talking about it on realgm).

I was going to say Gasol wouldn't likely be in that group because he hasn't been here that long, and tends to stick very PC with his answers.
yeah, it doesn't seem like Pau has been around long enough to tire of Thib's act
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,415 Posts
Discussion Starter #52
There were two problems.

First: Defense didn’t win championships. Defense doesn’t win championships. If that were ever true, it’s not now. Defense is more like a prerequisite for any team that wants to really contend. Go back through the best teams over the past few years — the Warriors, Cavs, Heat, Spurs, Lakers, Celtics. Those teams were good on defense, and most were great. But anytime you get deep enough into the playoffs, everyone is at that level. What sets the best teams apart is offense. That’s the riddle Thibs could never solve. It’s why the Bulls lost to Miami in 2011, and it’s why they lost to Cleveland this year.

The other problem was more obvious: Thibs is a crazy person. He plays guys way too many minutes and grinds them into dust. This is a good running joke, but it’s probably not as funny to his players. The season is eight months long, and it’s no coincidence the same overachieving Bulls teams always came staggering into the playoffs, looking like they’d just survived a six-month UFC fight.

Even if you don’t blame him for what’s happened to Rose (I don’t), we watched Luol Deng turn into a fossil before his 30th birthday, and the same thing happened to Joakim Noah this year. Jimmy Butler broke out as a superstar this season and gave Chicago hope for the future, but there was Thibs, playing him the most minutes per game in the NBA. Butler went down with an injury in March. At least he got a rest before the playoffs.

The cycle was hard to watch. Now imagine watching it as a front-office executive who’s drafted these guys, seen them turn into stars, and then had to sit there and watch them driven into the ground. That’s why the petty press release from Reinsdorf was also perfectly fair. “Teams that consistently perform at the highest levels are able to come together and be unified across the organization — staff, players, coaches, management and ownership. When everyone is on the same page, trust develops and teams can grow and succeed together.” Thibs wasn’t on the same page, and for as demanding/demeaning as the Bulls have been to coaches over the years, asking him to think about the big picture is pretty reasonable.
In any business, insecurity and cheap tendencies at the top trickle down to everyone. It spawns a working environment in which nobody feels appreciated and everyone looks expendable. That’s what made it so amazing to see Reinsdorf discuss culture in the press release yesterday. He may have a point in this case, but now that he mentions it, this has all played out exactly like the battles of the ’90s, just with completely different characters … except one. And while we’re here, his mighty organization still hasn’t won a title since Jordan left.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/blame-games-the-end-for-thibs-and-the-bulls/
 
41 - 52 of 52 Posts
Top