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Discussion Starter #1
who do you all think is having the better season? i think Lebron because he has better overall stats and he has accomplished more this season than kobe. i think kobe only leads in points by 2, and blocks by a few.
 

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Lebron. his team is winning more despite being in the east. he has better numbers especially in FG and assists.

I'll put him in my All NBA team way ever before I'll put in Kobe.
 

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Generally the thinking has been that with a weaker supporting cast Kobe would be able to put up monster numbers. But Lebron has put up bigger ones. Even with a better supporting cast.

Lebron has been better this season.
 

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Kobe Bryant. While his defense hasn't been amazing, it's still superior to Bron's. Defense being a full half of the game, that difference overwhelms slight statistical difference, as far as I'm concerned.

The moment Bron tightens up his individual defense, he flies right by Kobe.
 

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Minstrel said:
Kobe Bryant. While his defense hasn't been amazing, it's still superior to Bron's. Defense being a full half of the game, that difference overwhelms slight statistical difference, as far as I'm concerned.

The moment Bron tightens up his individual defense, he flies right by Kobe.
The question was who is having a better season. Even though Lebron's defense isn't nearly as good as Kobe, he's remained healthy and his team is winning and in a decent playoff position. Kobe's team is falling fast out of a playoff position in the West. So I would say Lebron is definetly having a better season. Statistically and on how much he and his team has accomplished.
 

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Well if Kobe being out for a good amount of games disqualifies him, then obviously it's LeBron. However, if you account for their actual play, Kobe has been the better player. He is the superior scorer and defender, and that's where his big edge is, since they're nearly even in everything else (LeBron has a small advantage in those things).

The Cavs have a much better supporting cast than the Lakers, and the Lakers are one of the few teams that have been coached worse than the Cavs. With all that said, the Lakers and Cavs were at about the same level before Kobe went down and they decided to go a different direction with their coach and offensive system.
 

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KidCanada said:
The question was who is having a better season.
Yes, and everything I said pertained to this season and only this season.

Even though Lebron's defense isn't nearly as good as Kobe, he's remained healthy and his team is winning and in a decent playoff position. Kobe's team is falling fast out of a playoff position in the West.
Defense is an individual characteristic. Team success and conference rank are not individual characteristics. And if you hadn't noticed, LeBron's team has been falling fast also. James is better because his team plays in the East where it's easier to remain in playoff contention? In my opinion, that has nothing to do with who's having a better season.

Health is an individual characteristic, so that should factor in. I don't think Bryant's missed time is enough to tip the scales, but if someone did, I could accept that.

So I would say Lebron is definetly having a better season. Statistically and on how much he and his team has accomplished.
The Cavaliers are (debatably) having a better season than the Lakers. Bryant is (debatably) having a better season than James. The Cavaliers and James are not the same thing, nor are the Lakers and Bryant.
 

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James is better because his team plays in the East where it's easier to remain in playoff contention? In my opinion, that has nothing to do with who's having a better season.
Players judge their season based on the success of their team. Lebrons team is 5th. Kobe's team is 10th. It doesn't matter what conference they are in because it is irrevelant to the player. Based on accomplishment's alone then Lebron is by far having a better season. If the question was who has played better...well then maybe it would be Kobe.

I guess it's how you interpret the post.

The Cavaliers and James are not the same thing, nor are the Lakers and Bryant.
When you look at a players success doesn't the teams success that the player was on come into play? You will never be anything special if you're team doesn't win IMO.
 

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KidCanada said:
Players judge their season based on the success of their team.
That's not true. Players want to win, so they feel lousy if their team doesn't do well, but that has no relevance to how they judge their individual performance.

If a player feels he is playing the best basketball he possibly can, he isn't going to judge himself as a failure because his team is losing. Infact, Charles Barkley even said that he always thought he was best in Philly, but when he started winning in Phoenix, he got more attention (with the MVP).
 

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KidCanada said:
When you look at a players success doesn't the teams success that the player was on come into play?
No. I'll always evaluate a player purely by what the player can control and give zero weight to things I don't believe the player can control. The talent of his teammates and what conference his team is in fall in the "out of a player's control" pile so, therefore, does overall team success.

You will never be anything special if you're team doesn't win IMO.
To me, that's akin to saying you will never be anything special if your company doesn't do great things. You are special, professionally, if you do well in your job. Your specialness doesn't have anything to do with the competence of those around you.

Kobe Bryant's job is to help his team win. He does a great job of that, it's simply not enough to overcome the lack of talent around him.
 

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Sir Patchwork said:
That's not true. Players want to win, so they feel lousy if their team doesn't do well, but that has no relevance to how they judge their individual performance.

If a player feels he is playing the best basketball he possibly can, he isn't going to judge himself as a failure because his team is losing. Infact, Charles Barkley even said that he always thought he was best in Philly, but when he started winning in Phoenix, he got more attention (with the MVP).
If Kobe's team doesn't make the playoffs and he averages 30ppg do you think he's happy with his season. Maybe he's pleased with his performance statistically but overall the season would be a dissapointment because in the end he didn't win. And to most players winning is everything.
 

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KidCanada said:
If Kobe's team doesn't make the playoffs and he averages 30ppg do you think he's happy with his season. Maybe he's pleased with his performance statistically but overall the season would be a dissapointment because in the end he didn't win. And to most players winning is everything.
I agree with this. But I think the original post was asking who do you believe is the better player, i.e. individually. Right now it's close offensively, slight edge to LeBron, with a pretty decent gap defensively in favor of Kobe. Though assuming natural development and growth through coaching, I expect LeBron to be the better player within a few years, mainly through improvement on his on-the-ball defense.
 

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EHL said:
I agree with this. But I think the original post was asking who do you believe is the better player, i.e. individually. Right now it's close offensively, slight edge to LeBron, with a pretty decent gap defensively in favor of Kobe. Though assuming natural development and growth through coaching, I expect LeBron to be the better player within a few years, mainly through improvement on his on-the-ball defense.

Its going to take more than improving his on-the-ball defense to be better than Kobe. The only way that is going to happen is Lebron really putting in the work to maximize his potential. And I don't think its a good sign when one of the first things Brendan Malone did when he took over was talk to each player individually and mention to Lebron that his practice habits need to improve. (This was according to TNT, talking about it during the game tonight)
 

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bballlife said:
Its going to take more than improving his on-the-ball defense to be better than Kobe. The only way that is going to happen is Lebron really putting in the work to maximize his potential. And I don't think its a good sign when one of the first things Brendan Malone did when he took over was talk to each player individually and mention to Lebron that his practice habits need to improve. (This was according to TNT, talking about it during the game tonight)
Good point, it remains to be seen how consistent he is with his work ethic. But IMO he's young enough where I believe he can still improve upon that part of his approach to basketball. He has an incredible NBA body, you have to believe he puts the time in at the gym, and all reports say he does. Really, this is the first I've heard of LeBron having any trouble in practice, though it sounds as if it's a stamina thing (playing so many minutes, having a ton of responsibilities) more than anything else.
 

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bballlife said:
Its going to take more than improving his on-the-ball defense to be better than Kobe. The only way that is going to happen is Lebron really putting in the work to maximize his potential. And I don't think its a good sign when one of the first things Brendan Malone did when he took over was talk to each player individually and mention to Lebron that his practice habits need to improve. (This was according to TNT, talking about it during the game tonight)
I'm not saying that Malone's statement is a good thing. But we are talking about a kid in his second year out of high school who has already resurrected a dead franchise and become a 25-7-7 guy, and someone people talk about as a legitimate MVP candidate. If he can do that w/ a subpar work ethic, that's ****ing amazing. And also, if you come into the league and do what Lebron is doing at his age, its not surprising that you need to be reminded to practice more. Things appear to be coming so easily for him that its no surprise if his eye wanders off the prize. Its his responsibility to get back on the ball, but hey, he's 20.
 

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bballlife said:
Its going to take more than improving his on-the-ball defense to be better than Kobe.
I agree with this. I don't think entire defenses are triggered in to stop LeBron the same way they are for Kobe. It's not as necessary for defenses to key in on players who are incredibly versatile, but also don't dominate in any one way. Defenses know that if they aren't on their toes, Kobe will hit them with 20-30 points in a quarter, because Kobe won't hold back when it comes to putting the ball in the hoop. LeBron has a more balanced attack, but it also doesn't draw as much attention from multiple defenders because he doesn't have a consistent habit of wanting to score or wanting to pass, he blends them well. I'd say Kobe has a slight edge overall on the offensive end, and a decent margin on the defensive end. If LeBron improves his range and consistency on his outside shot as well as his defense, he'll pass Kobe.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
come on, how can you say kobe is better offensively when lebron's numbers are better generally? he scores about 2 less poins while shooting a way better percentage. that's way more efficient. Lebron has done a better job on leading his team and i think his teammates like and respect him more than kobe's does. and this defense thing with kobe is WAY overrated, especially this season. kobe has been playing horrible defense. plus he has tanked it too many times in the fourth quarter, which is supposedly "kobe time." and i dont know what games you akk watch but kobe isnt always double tamed on the perimeter, its usually when he drives to the bucket the defense collapses, just like they do with lebron. everyone thinks lebron is covered 1-on-1 all the time and when he drives to the basket he is all alone which is not true at all...the kid is just that good.
 
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