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Well, we're down 20 to the 76ers as I type this, and I'm about to lose my shit. Back on the ledge.

We are a really hard team to judge, and right now, a very hard team to watch.
Great by Jimmy putting the team on his back for 53 for the come from behind win. I'll definitely take it. It was an amazing performance. He looked exhaused at the end; I'm expecting a flat performance against Dallas tonight due to fatigue.

Props to Moore for carrying the team in OT, and McDermott for showing what he can do. Awesome dunk by McDermott BTW.

I attribute the terrible 1st half in large part to no Gasol. Hoiberg started revolving the offense around Gasol earlier in the year when the team proved incapable of doing a complete share the ball offense like Hoiberg was trying to do originally. (side note, this change is when Gasol's production started taking off for the better). However when you lose Gasol, he's now your centerpiece and the whole offense turns to @#$%. It took a whole half for the team to re-adjust to playing with Jimmy as the centerpiece. Literally, half the possessions Jimmy was posting up at the elbow where Gasol often gets the ball.

I've said before, if the team wants to win this year, they pretty much have to keep Gasol and have to make Gasol the central cog which frees things up for everyone. If the Bulls want to wave the white flag and play for next season, and also play true "Hoiball", they really should start making these trades sooner rather than later, starting with Gasol, and then waive Rose in the off-season to spread his last year of his contract over the next few years, which would open up a bunch of salary cap.

Basically I just want to see them pick a direction and then commit to it. At this point I don't care the direction, just pick one. The team as it is constructed now is stale, and we're seeing too many performances like this 1st half against Philly. Though 1 thing is clear, you have to build this team around Jimmy Butler. His recent play I think is a statement by Jimmy to make that point loud and clear.
 

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McBuckets showing some lift...

Doug has a reputation as a poor athlete, but I disagree. I've seen him display these hops in the past. He showed a good vertical at the draft combine and has shown it in-game before too. He also runs the floor well (good straight line speed when he has a head of steam behind him). The thing he sucks at is 2-fold: poor lateral movement & slow speed with the ball in the hands. This is why people call him a poor athlete and understandably so, but it's also an oversimplication.
 

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That Philly game gives me such weird mixed feelings. Yes, Pau and Rose were out. But it's still the Sixers. They have four friggin' wins. I'm glad Jimmy has become such a fantastic player, but it still bugs me you needed 53 points out of him to get the win.

Awesome and sucky, simultaneously.
 

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Yup. Should not need Jimmy to do that to beat the Sixers.

It just shows you what this team would be without Gasol. Yes, Rose was out, but oftentimes he hurts the team when on the floor this season.
 

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Not that i disagree persay but the Sixers have been playing better lately. Theyve got some talent. Okafor is a monster and Nerlens is back healthy. Theyve been a different team since Ish Smith came aboard who is a real actual PG, and in fact the guy who killed the bulls all game. They destroyed Portland last night. Probably still the worst team in the league but not intheir own class of bad anymore and unlikely they break the record.
 

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Not that i disagree persay but the Sixers have been playing better lately. Theyve got some talent. Okafor is a monster and Nerlens is back healthy. Theyve been a different team since Ish Smith came aboard who is a real actual PG, and in fact the guy who killed the bulls all game. They destroyed Portland last night. Probably still the worst team in the league but not intheir own class of bad anymore and unlikely they break the record.
Yes.

In other news....

The best team in the West, the Golden State Warriors are enjoying a mind boggling .902 winning percentage. The missed the playoffs several years in a row to build up their core of Curry, Thompson and Barnes.

In the East, the Cavs are leading the conference with a .737 winning percentage. Irving and Love were added to the team as a result of having high lotto picks by being bad.

Northwest division leader Thunder (.707 winning percentage) are led by Durant and Westbrook, high lotto picks as a result of the team being bad.

SA Spurs keep on rolling. Over the last decade their best player was #1 pick Tim Duncan, added to the team by the team being bad.


Bulls will probably make the 1st round of the playoffs yet again this season but its hard to see them making meaningful advancement at this point. Woot.
 

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Yes, it is hard to simultaneously acquire & develop young high-end talent while also trying to build up a contender. The Spurs are the gold standard in large part because they have done this successfully, striking gold on Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, and Kawhi Leonard with mid-to-late draft picks. Though it's made significantly easier when you have an all-time great cornerstone like Tim Duncan, and even the Spurs needed 1 terrible season long ago and alot of lottery luck to have that luxury. Though huge credit to them for the solid picks combined with judicious spending and smart trades/FA acquisitions.

Most other teams need to land in the crapper for a while to build up that talent. The Warriors were terrible for a long time. The Cavs were just as terrible for just as long before lucking into winning the Lebron sweepstakes long ago and later getting three #1 overall picks in the span of four years (Kyrie Irving + the Wiggins pick that got them Kevin Love). Most of the other good teams right now share a similar story, even if to a lesser extent.

History suggests the Bulls should be working to get some high draft picks if they're going to improve past their current state. The best way to do that is to be a bad team. But most fans don't have the patience for that, and least of all, Jimmy Butler is our cornerstone and I doubt he is in favor of that too. It's a dilemma. No matter what path they take, somebody is going to be displeased. The only way to evade this dilemma is to land a big-time free agent this summer or next, which could put you theoretically back into the contender path. (which again, even the Spurs had to do via Aldridge signing)
 

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The Bulls are in a bad place right now. They were in a similar spot around Christmas when they lost to the woeful Nets at the UC, dropping them to 15-11.

If the season ended today, I'd call it disappointing and I'd similarly characterize Hoiberg.

The team collectively needs to get it's head out of its backside. They're better than they've played.
 

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Discussion Starter #173
If the season ended today, I'd call it disappointing and I'd similarly characterize Hoiberg.

The team collectively needs to get it's head out of its backside. They're better than they've played.
The truth is they aren't better than what they are. They have a first year coach who is on the edge of being a bust. Even if there is a legit personnel issue on the court, there really is no excuse for not being able to draw up a competent set in the last 2 minutes of last night's game.

For all the praise that Jimmy Butler is getting, he's doing his best when working outside of Hoibergs desired offense. The bulls are an ISO offense, that's not what Hoiberg wants.

This whole thing is a mess... I've been saying it for a long time.
 

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The truth is they aren't better than what they are. They have a first year coach who is on the edge of being a bust. Even if there is a legit personnel issue on the court, there really is no excuse for not being able to draw up a competent set in the last 2 minutes of last night's game.

For all the praise that Jimmy Butler is getting, he's doing his best when working outside of Hoibergs desired offense. The bulls are an ISO offense, that's not what Hoiberg wants.

This whole thing is a mess... I've been saying it for a long time.
I agree with alot of this, but this is partly Jimmy's problem too. It's on the players to buy into the coach's system. I don't even know what the so-called Hoiball looks like b/c our players haven't been running it. I can't think of many championship teams who consistently break the offense and play iso ball. Jimmy's best work has been iso ball, but in the playoffs iso ball doesn't work -- it's too stoppable when you are scouted closely by a playoff opponent. So Jimmy needs to grow as a player and learn to play a team concept. Fact of the matter is Jimmy has been quite a ball stopper on offense this year. I had the same complaint with Noah. Good passers but they don't keep the ball moving. Watch the Spurs or Warriors and that's the gold standard for team ball movement. Hoiberg is preaching it but I literally don't think our players know how to play that brand of ball. Which is a big frigging problem b/c I don't think you can win a championship unless players learn how to do that. So we either go get new players, or Hoiberg's challenge is to teach them on the fly (which leads to more losses). It goes back to the Bulls needing to choose a path and commit to it. They are stuck at a crossroads and need to pick a direction. This is on the front office to figure out at this point and I'm still waiting for some personnel movement. I'd like to give Hoiberg a fair shot (he hasn't had one) and it's also up to Jimmy and the players to play the team concept rather than iso ball.
 

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The truth is they aren't better than what they are. They have a first year coach who is on the edge of being a bust. Even if there is a legit personnel issue on the court, there really is no excuse for not being able to draw up a competent set in the last 2 minutes of last night's game.

For all the praise that Jimmy Butler is getting, he's doing his best when working outside of Hoibergs desired offense. The bulls are an ISO offense, that's not what Hoiberg wants.

This whole thing is a mess... I've been saying it for a long time.
OK, I get that, in the end, your record defines you so the Bulls are an inconsistent slightly above average team.

This said, Butler and Gasol are top-line players. Rose has shown recently that, when reasonably healthy, he can be effective. Gibson's a very good low-usage player. Mirotic? Wild card...I just don't know. McDermott? Good shooter/scorer/ Portis is a promising newcomer. IF Dunleavy can be what he was last season, it would solidify the SF some.

IMO, this team doesn't lack talent. It doesn't have the athleticism I'd like to see, but IF they can somehow come together at playoff time, they can make it interesting.

This said, the more I see GSW play, the more I think 29 teams might as well tank it this season.
 

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I agree with alot of this, but this is partly Jimmy's problem too. It's on the players to buy into the coach's system. I don't even know what the so-called Hoiball looks like b/c our players haven't been running it. I can't think of many championship teams who consistently break the offense and play iso ball. Jimmy's best work has been iso ball, but in the playoffs iso ball doesn't work -- it's too stoppable when you are scouted closely by a playoff opponent. So Jimmy needs to grow as a player and learn to play a team concept. Fact of the matter is Jimmy has been quite a ball stopper on offense this year. I had the same complaint with Noah. Good passers but they don't keep the ball moving. Watch the Spurs or Warriors and that's the gold standard for team ball movement. Hoiberg is preaching it but I literally don't think our players know how to play that brand of ball. Which is a big frigging problem b/c I don't think you can win a championship unless players learn how to do that. So we either go get new players, or Hoiberg's challenge is to teach them on the fly (which leads to more losses). It goes back to the Bulls needing to choose a path and commit to it. They are stuck at a crossroads and need to pick a direction. This is on the front office to figure out at this point and I'm still waiting for some personnel movement. I'd like to give Hoiberg a fair shot (he hasn't had one) and it's also up to Jimmy and the players to play the team concept rather than iso ball.
jimmy isn't the problem here.

he plays a slashing game that is often iso based and on defense he is expected to put out maximum effort on the other team's best scorer for 38 minutes a game.

and in addition you want him to run and push the tempo?

that is an unrealistic request in my opinion.

most teams that play fast limit the minutes given to their top players for obvious reasons and jimmy leads the league in minutes so how serious can hoiberg be about how fast the team plays?
 

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OK, I get that, in the end, your record defines you so the Bulls are an inconsistent slightly above average team.

This said, Butler and Gasol are top-line players. Rose has shown recently that, when reasonably healthy, he can be effective. Gibson's a very good low-usage player. Mirotic? Wild card...I just don't know. McDermott? Good shooter/scorer/ Portis is a promising newcomer. IF Dunleavy can be what he was last season, it would solidify the SF some.

IMO, this team doesn't lack talent. It doesn't have the athleticism I'd like to see, but IF they can somehow come together at playoff time, they can make it interesting.

This said, the more I see GSW play, the more I think 29 teams might as well tank it this season.
the bulls don't lack talent but at the same time they are clearly a notch or 2 below the top teams
 

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jimmy isn't the problem here.

he plays a slashing game that is often iso based and on defense he is expected to put out maximum effort on the other team's best scorer for 38 minutes a game.

and in addition you want him to run and push the tempo?

that is an unrealistic request in my opinion.

most teams that play fast limit the minutes given to their top players for obvious reasons and jimmy leads the league in minutes so how serious can hoiberg be about how fast the team plays?
Did I say Jimmy was THE problem? I said Jimmy has A problem. As great as he's been overall, he has not been useful when it comes to proficient team ball movement. Again I ask you to look at the Warriors and Spurs, and tell me how Jimmy's offensive style of play would fit into that. In those systems Jimmy would either need to change his style of play, or accept scoring 12-14 ppg. Jimmy has been a ball stopper and could be better off the ball as well (though that Gasol alley-oop play has been money).

Let me be clear, this is not to target Jimmy. There are problems well beyond Jimmy on this team. But I do think Jimmy has been a participant in 1 of the team's biggest problems, and as our best player & now a max paid player, he can fairly be critiqued for it. Jimmy's likely not going to ever win a championship unless he does a better job with a move-the-ball team style offense.
 

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Discussion Starter #179
OK, I get that, in the end, your record defines you so the Bulls are an inconsistent slightly above average team.

This said, Butler and Gasol are top-line players. Rose has shown recently that, when reasonably healthy, he can be effective. Gibson's a very good low-usage player. Mirotic? Wild card...I just don't know. McDermott? Good shooter/scorer/ Portis is a promising newcomer. IF Dunleavy can be what he was last season, it would solidify the SF some.

IMO, this team doesn't lack talent. It doesn't have the athleticism I'd like to see, but IF they can somehow come together at playoff time, they can make it interesting.

This said, the more I see GSW play, the more I think 29 teams might as well tank it this season.
I don't think anyone is saying this team lacks talent, heck the Kings don't lack talent, the Rockets dont lack talent, Miami has some talented players as well. The problems are you don't have a team identity, you don't have a cohesive unit on the court... EVER, you have one of the worst SF situation in basketball and you have a head coach who isn't even coaching.

The front office told this team last year to basically stop listening to Thibs because the savior Hoiberg is coming. And then once Hoiberg arrives you basically cut his coaching nuts off by empowering Jimmy to say and do whatever the hell he wants on and off the court.

Now Garpax has the opportunity to reshape this team to give their hand picked coach a chance at actually building something here that resembles what he wants to do on offense. Are they going to do it? I doubt it. Their only real trade-able asset is Gasol and I doubt they will trade him now that Gasol is gone, they value playoff income over the big picture.

If Pat Riley offered Winslow, Tyler Johnson and Birdmans contract for Gasol, I would jump on that in a heartbeat.
 

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This is fairly big news on the trade front. Atlanta is shopping one of their PGs, Jeff Teague and Dennis Schroeder. My guess is they will trade whichever one nets the best package in return.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2016/1/27/10840682/jeff-teague-trade-rumors-atlanta-hawks

I would LOVE Jeff Teague on this team. Teague is exactly the type of PG that fits what Hoiberg has been trying to get this team to do. He can play fast, drive and create for others, shoot the 3-ball, keep everyone involved, and defend. He is everything that we want Derrick Rose to do but isn't capable of.

If we go after Teague (and not sure we have pieces Atlanta wants), the thing is you're still stuck with Derrick Rose. So would probably force us into alot of small ball where you're starting Rose at SG and Jimmy at SF. Though this is far and away a better team than what we have today. Teague, Rose, Jimmy, Gibson, Gasol. Long term I like the Teague/Jimmy backcourt alot assuming Rose is gone at some point.
 
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