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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all, I have officially thrown in the towel. This crew can not win a title. In fact, I think there is plenty of pieces in Chicago, but the core isnt there. I had some time to think about it some, and this is what I would do. Its long, and its just an outline, but its just a shot. if JR were to fire Pax today (something I think he should) and hire me, this is what I would try and do. Enjoy

My first trade would be to get us that franchise player. We need that and we dont have it. Here is my trade, its a long shot, but one I think we could sell

Orlando trades: SG Gordan Giricek (10.8 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.0 apg in 32.5 minutes)
PF Juwan Howard (15.1 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.9 apg in 34.5 minutes)
SG Tracy McGrady (25.2 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 5.8 apg in 39.4 minutes)
Orlando receives: PF Antonio Davis (9.6 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 1.6 apg in 33.7 minutes)
C Eddy Curry (13.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 28.1 minutes)
SG Jamal Crawford (16.7 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.8 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -11.5 ppg, +2.2 rpg, and -1.7 apg.

Chicago trades: PF Antonio Davis (9.6 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 1.6 apg in 33.7 minutes)
C Eddy Curry (13.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 28.1 minutes)
SG Jamal Crawford (16.7 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.8 minutes)
Chicago receives: SG Gordan Giricek (10.8 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.0 apg in 28 games)
PF Juwan Howard (15.1 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.9 apg in 36 games)
SG Tracy McGrady (25.2 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 5.8 apg in 35 games)
Change in team outlook: +11.5 ppg, -2.2 rpg, and +1.7 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Why would Orlando do this? They get rid of Howards long term deal. They get cap flexibility with Jamal and Eddy, two guys that they might be able to build around. Sure, they give up TMac but Tracy isnt happy there. We throw in a number one in a couple of years. Why do the Bulls do this? Sure we have to take on Howards deal but we get the core player this club needs so desperately. Plus I like GG as well. he can shoot and plays that Jiri Welsh role somewhat. He comes off the bench for us

Second trade

Seattle trades: PG Ronald Murray (16.1 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 2.9 apg in 29.6 minutes)
C Jerome James (4.6 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 14.0 minutes)
SF Rashard Lewis (19.0 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 2.1 apg in 36.9 minutes)
Seattle receives: SG Kendall Gill (10.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 1.9 apg in 27.7 minutes)
PF Marcus Fizer (6.5 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 14.2 minutes)
PF Tyson Chandler (13.0 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.0 apg in 28.6 minutes)
SF Scottie Pippen (7.1 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 22.3 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -2.3 ppg, +8.4 rpg, and +1.1 apg.

Chicago trades: SG Kendall Gill (10.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 1.9 apg in 27.7 minutes)
PF Marcus Fizer (6.5 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 14.2 minutes)
PF Tyson Chandler (13.0 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.0 apg in 28.6 minutes)
SF Scottie Pippen (7.1 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 22.3 minutes)
Chicago receives: PG Ronald Murray (16.1 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 2.9 apg in 33 games)
C Jerome James (4.6 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 28 games)
SF Rashard Lewis (19.0 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 2.1 apg in 32 games)
Change in team outlook: +2.3 ppg, -8.4 rpg, and -1.1 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Ok dealing Pippen isnt going to endear myself to the fans. neither is dealing chandler. But seattle desperately wants to get bigger and wants to get rid of Jerome James. We will take James deal off of them, they get Fizer off the books this summer and Gill. Plus they get a talented big guy in chandler for their core. We get our legit #2 guy to go with Tmac. A Tmac/Lewis at the 2/3 with Flip Murray and GG means we have gone from a power inside team to one who scores from the wings, and alot more fun to watch.

Third trade

Chicago trades: PF Jerome Williams (7.2 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 1.2 apg in 28.1 minutes)
SF Eddie Robinson (5.4 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 1.1 apg in 18.1 minutes)
Chicago receives: C Raef LaFrentz (7.8 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.4 apg in 19.3 minutes)
C Michael Stewart (0.9 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.0 apg in 9.2 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -3.9 ppg, -3.7 rpg, and -0.9 apg.

Boston trades: C Raef LaFrentz (7.8 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.4 apg in 19.3 minutes)
C Michael Stewart (0.9 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.0 apg in 9.2 minutes)
Boston receives: PF Jerome Williams (7.2 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 1.2 apg in 34 games)
SF Eddie Robinson (5.4 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 1.1 apg in 29 games)
Change in team outlook: +3.9 ppg, +3.7 rpg, and +0.9 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Ok this trade was a bit of a reach. LaFrentz is out for the year. but with so much luck with one Kansas kid, I think we can gamble on him for next year. LaFrentz has 5 years on his deal. Jerome as 4. So Boston shaves a year off the books. Then we essentially swap Erob for Stewart in a cap move. We can a year there. Williams gives Boston the inside presence they need to get anywhere in the playoffs. And with Mihm looking better, they may be set in the middle. If Raef comes back strong next year, we have that deep shooting C that are hard to match up with

Ok so here is the team and how it stands after the 3 trades

PG Kirk
SG Tmac
SF Lewis
PF Howard
C James

The IR is Jay and Raef

The bench is
Flip Murray
Stewart
Giricek
Blount
Dupree

Now as GM, we have 2 spots open for the rest of the year. I would go and give Leon Smith a call and beat Isiah too him. He is worth a look for the rest of the year. Id also just Stanley Roberts.

Ok, as you can see, this team isnt deep, and the season is pretty much lost. I concede these deals do put us in a real position to win this year. But now comes the draft and Free Agency

I assume we will pick in the top 5. Id take Emeka Okafor. With Lewis and Tmac, we take Emeka. a rebounding shotblocking machine. Plus this kid as an emerging offensive game. He is going to be an allstar in the NBA for a long time. Plus he helps us at the 4 and 5. He is a stud. In round 2, pray that Romain Sato stays there (i doubt he does). take him there

Free Agency. resign Giricek. Give Andres Nocioni the minimum to come over ( a great Curry52 call). with the MLE, offer it to Greg Ostertag (another Kansas kid) for 2 years or Vlade. We will need beef at the 5.

Now here is the kicker. jay and raef come back healthy next year. jay is doing better then anyone would like to admit. He is the X factor next year. Raef comes in as well. lets take a look at how the roster stands for next year

SF Lewis/Giricek/Nocioni
PF Okafor/Howard/Stewart
C Raef/Ostertag (Vlade)/James/Blount
PG Kirk/Jay (flip can play here too)
SG Tmac/Flip/Romain Sato

Now what is the downside to all of this movement? We take on some real long term deals. tmac, lewis, howard, giricek (another 2 year deal), Nocioni (2 year deal) Raef are all superlong term deals. we give up cap flexibility for the next 5 years. and we give up a number one down the line, perhaps 2.

Why does it make sense? Because now we can flat out score. and while we arent going to be the best defensive team in the league, and giving up some on the glass for the rest of this year (next year with Raef and Okafor that wont be the case) our fire power can overcome it. Call us the Dallas version of the east. We have core winners, not Ifs. kirk can be the gritty PG we need and Jay can be Bobby Jackson redux. The ball movement would be better, the off the ball movement would be better, and frankly its a better product for the fans. plus the balance is there on the roster. This team goes 10 deep with good young prospects on the IR (Sato, Nocioni who you can bring along).

Balance. Well thats why I made it. Lewis is on one side of the floor, Tmac on the other. Weak side can kill you. Kirk or jay gets hot, Tmac or Flip can slide over to the 1. Okafor is the inside freak muscle. Raef steps out and knocks down the 3, keeping the inside open for Emeka and an outlet for our creators. Giricek is there as well. and everyone is a good passer

I think the team that I assembled is possible. I also think it can contend very quickly in the east.

Now for the final move, Id let Skiles go. Skiles was brought in as task master for the young guys. well, we have pretty much said no more young guys but with vets and young kids who are basically vets (kirk, jay, okafor). Id hire Bill Laimbeer for this team. I think he has a great basketball mind. Plus, with the way our team is assembled, he could bring alot tot the table
 

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my plan is simpler

resign everyone , dont repeat the mistakes of the past meaning ,Curry and TC are locked in a weight room this coming summer. (Tyson will be next to the heavy weights and curry to the readmill)and dont trade off aquisitions due to frustrations a.k.a. ron artest and brad miller. if this board is any indication regret in a mutha.

get an asst. coach who knows something about running an offense, so that nights like last night are never repeated

and watch the team grow
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Originally posted by <b>ShamBulls</b>!
I think it's safe to say rlucas is Scott Layden. :whoknows:
haha mate. I do concede that part of my plan is taking on contracts that no one wants. Its a gamble. but to get a Lewis and a Tmac, you have to take on a Howard and a James.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
My plan is simpler.

Don't buy tickets. Don't buy jerseys. Let the empty stands and emptier wallet put some motivation into management to actually try to put a team worth watching on the court.
I like my plan better.
 

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Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!


haha mate. I do concede that part of my plan is taking on contracts that no one wants. Its a gamble. but to get a Lewis and a Tmac, you have to take on a Howard and a James.




Your plan gives us 25 wins, for 50 million dollars. That's not really the kind of return I would like.
 

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Rlucas, you sure do highly value our guys.

Orlando gives up McGrady and Howard for an aging vet on his last legs (Davis) and two guys who have yet to show that they are good enough to play in the fourth quarter for a good team (Curry and Crawford).

Seattle, on the other hand, gives away two quite good players in Lewis and Murray plus an effective center in James for two guys on the injured list with big question marks about their futures (Chandler and Pippen) and one who might as well be on the injured list (Fizer).

All in all, I think you are a couple of orders of magnitude away from what we could get by trading Curry, Chandler, and Crawford.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Originally posted by <b>ShamBulls</b>!






Your plan gives us 25 wins, for 50 million dollars. That's not really the kind of return I would like.
Next year, this team, after getting its chemistry issues together, could get to the finals. Deep, talented, and with an actual core. Sure, you have to spend money. Im no Popovich or Buford, I havent figured out how to win a title while rebuilding. So you have to spend money. There is going to be some years where the Bulls have a huge payroll. But atleast this team wins, and looks good doing it. Im brazilian by nature. Its not good enough to win, you have to look great doing it. and this team would be fun to watch
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Originally posted by <b>NCBullsFan</b>!
Rlucas, you sure do highly value our guys.

Orlando gives up McGrady and Howard for an aging vet on his last legs (Davis) and two guys who have yet to show that they are good enough to play in the fourth quarter for a good team (Curry and Crawford).

Seattle, on the other hand, gives away two quite good players in Lewis and Murray plus an effective center in James for two guys on the injured list with big question marks on their futures (Chandler and Pippen) and one who might as well be (Fizer).

All in all, I think you are a couple of orders of magnitude away from what we could get by trading Curry, Chandler, and Crawford.
Perhaps. Like I said, you cant make deals unless your willing to take on bad contracts. That was my whole premis. Orlando has the worst record with Tmac and Howard, so they have no where to go but up. They get 2 young pieces and save a year on Davis vs Tmac. Plus they rid themselves of Howard, who they really dont like, and has 5 years on his deal

Seattle is more problematic. But assume for a second that chandler plays at his level for the foreseeable future, they get a young big guy on a rookie deal for a 3, a position that they are loaded at. They could just move Radmonovic over a spot. Plus they rid themselves of James. And Fizers deal comes off the books this year so it gives them some cap relief

Your the king of cap NC. And I 100% listen to you when it comes to that. But I can also tell you inspite of you being 100% correct that there is likely to be no lux tax coming up, that NBA teams are still terrified by paying this tax. they firmly believe there will be a tax, or the least, they dont want to take a chance that one kicks in next year. Lets take advantage of the fear by making some deals.
 

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Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!



Your the king of cap NC. And I 100% listen to you when it comes to that. But I can also tell you inspite of you being 100% correct that there is likely to be no lux tax coming up, that NBA teams are still terrified by paying this tax. they firmly believe there will be a tax, or the least, they dont want to take a chance that one kicks in next year. Lets take advantage of the fear by making some deals.


That much is true. There's won't be a tax, but Pax (hey, I rhymed.....:headbang: ) will work around it as if there is. I can't say I blame him. Why overpayd for a lottery team. Because until further notice, thats what we are.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
im gonna make these moves in nba live 2004 and sim a season
tell me how you do. and dont forget to create Okafor
 

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rlucas - the 2 1st trades I'd do while the other teams involved wouldn't even think about it.

the 3rd trade is awful for us - Raef is a worse contract then ERob and giving up JYD for him - no Way!
 

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Truer words

Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
My plan is simpler.

Don't buy tickets. Don't buy jerseys. Let the empty stands and emptier wallet put some motivation into management to actually try to put a team worth watching on the court.
DaBullz, you are right. But I don't think it is that the management isn't trying. I think it is that these kids can't handle the expectations that were built up in us from the Jordan years. We're all still lusting after that feeling of being champions, and bought into the company line that we were "just" a Jordan or two away from being ones again. Even though our obsession may be "nicer" than that of fans in Philly, its too much for these kids. Better for them to go to Indiana, Minnesota or Toronto, so they can relax and play and just grow like they should.

I for one am going to back off, and let the team and its players do as they want. I'm not going to listen to anyone's promises about how good it will be, once this or that guy "gets it." I'm going to let them get it or not, and otherwise show as much interest in their progress as I do in what's going on at the local supermarket. I hope they do well. In short, I'm going to be a fairweather fan from now on, and happier for it.:grinning:
 

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well, rlucas, I definitely like the final make up of your team. not sure the math you used to get there is 100% accurate though
anyways, it was a good read. that much is for sure
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Originally posted by <b>andras</b>!
well, rlucas, I definitely like the final make up of your team. not sure the math you used to get there is 100% accurate though
anyways, it was a good read. that much is for sure
thanks andras. I think some of my trades are reasonable and others are not. it all really depends if JR is willing to take on some off the chart contracts. Thats always the great equalizer in a deal. But my point was to gain some balance, add some complementary players, and add a real core player. Something that we dont have. Getting a Tmac and a Lewis would be a tremendous core on day one. Add to them Okafor and Kirk, plus a return of Jay, and now the team is skilled, passionate and versatile. I like what I have done. But i am waiting for the results from hawk on NBA live
 

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No way Orlando trades T-Mac to Chicago, no way. Orlando would only trade him for Garnett, Kobe, Pierce or someone like that. How do you explain to their fans (I know they arent as loyal as us) that you traded a Top-5 NBA talent for an out of shape kid with no fire, a SG with no D skills and some mental problems and junk? If Curry were to be playing like the Curry we saw during the last part of the 02/03 season, they might consider it to a certain extent. At the same time, the Bulls wouldnt listen to any offer including Curry.

The Sonics deal is more of the same. Theres no way they make it, Fizer is going through the worst part of his carrer and Chandler could be Chamby in the short run (Marcus Camby). Shard is an exceptional SF and Flip Murray has some trade value. No way.

Also, if you could make it a little bit more "fair", the Bulls must include their first rouder in either trade. Now, if you offer Okafor + Curry + Crawford, then Orlando may sit down and talk about it.

Regarding free agency, I agree with the Giricek and Nocioni signing, but I think the latter will demand more than the minimum and there are going to be more than 10 teams willing to take a chance on him. Ostertag is OK, but I cant stand watching him play though.


Again, Its always nice to trade one team junk for other team diamond, but I accept I oftenly do so.


:yes:
 

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i guess no one liked my plan
 

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Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
i guess no one liked my plan
I agree with your plan and I think that is whats going to happen with this franchise. Again, its "wait until next year" for us, but I think we will see the best from Curry and Chandler (especially Curry) next season. Yes, you already read this last year, but I think with Skiles and Paxson getting serious about this, our "cornerstones" will be at the Berto Center during the offseason (and Gym).

And regarding that asst.coach, I dont this its neccesary. The problem is the Bulls dont have the right personal, and you will see them missing open jump shots, 3s, etc.
 
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