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Discussion Starter #1
New York 15-5 (Road: 7-5) 7:00pm ET
Brooklyn 11-8 (Home: 7-4) TV: ESPN

LA Lakers 9-12 (Road: 2-6) 7:00pm ET
Cleveland 4-17 (Home: 2-6) TV: TWSN, FSOH, C+D

Denver 10-11 (Road: 5-10) 7:30pm ET
Detroit 7-16 (Home: 5-5) TV: ALT2, FSD

Washington 2-15 (Road: 0-8) 8:00pm ET
New Orleans 5-14 (Home: 3-8) TV: CSMA, FSNO

LA Clippers 14-6 (Road: 4-3) 9:30pm ET
Chicago 11-8 (Home: 6-5) TV: ESPN, CSCH​
 

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First Round Draft Pick
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Re: Today's Game Discussion [ESPN Double-Header: NYK @ BKN | LAC @ CHI - 12/12/12]

Lakers @ Cavs
Knicks @ Nets
Nuggets @ Pistons
Wizards @ Hornets
Clippers @ Bulls
 

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Oladipo for the people
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Re: Today's Game Discussion [ESPN Double-Header: NYK @ BKN | LAC @ CHI - 12/12/12]

#TeamSachs @ Cavs
Knicks @ Nets
Nuggets @ Pistons
Wizards @ Hornets
Clippers @ Bulls[/QUOTE]
 

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Re: Today's Game Discussion [ESPN Double-Header: NYK @ BKN | LAC @ CHI - 12/12/12]

I expect Nets to have a hard time with the Knicks, but as a Net fan, I hope I'm wrong
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I expect Nets to have a hard time with the Knicks, but as a Net fan, I hope I'm wrong
They won the first meeting. Not sure why you'd feel that way. They're winning 30-16 after one quarter so far.

Lakers struggling on the road against the lowly Cavs. Shocker.
 

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Look at your favorite team, now back to mine, mine
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Re: Today's Game Discussion [ESPN Double-Header: NYK @ BKN | LAC @ CHI - 12/12/12]

They won the first meeting. Not sure why you'd feel that way. They're winning 30-16 after one quarter so far.

Lakers struggling on the road against the lowly Cavs. Shocker.
Yes because the Lakers are doing so well this season that them struggling against the Cavs is shocking.

 

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Welcome to the Grindhouse!
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Re: Today's Game Discussion [ESPN Double-Header: NYK @ BKN | LAC @ CHI - 12/12/12]

Another feather for Mike Brown...:2ti:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Re: Today's Game Discussion [ESPN Double-Header: NYK @ BKN | LAC @ CHI - 12/12/12]

We're an awful, awful team right now. Awful.
 

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Re: Today's Game Discussion [ESPN Double-Header: NYK @ BKN | LAC @ CHI - 12/12/12]

Wow. Jason Kidd with the triple plus the foul with 24 seconds left.
 

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Restore the Roar
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Denver up 5... has thrown up 4 damn near miracle and prayers tonight against 4 hard fouls.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using VerticalSports.Com App
 

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Limehouse Blues
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Re: Today's Game Discussion [ESPN Double-Header: NYK @ BKN | LAC @ CHI - 12/12/12]

No way that should be a foul on the 3 pointer. I would guess that you could probably call Kidd for a T or something.
 

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Re: Today's Game Discussion [ESPN Double-Header: NYK @ BKN | LAC @ CHI - 12/12/12]

I don't know what Jeff Van Gundy was thinking with that 3 being an offensive foul on Kidd. When you shoot and the form in your arms isn't how you're used to it being, or your feet are facing the wrong direction, sometimes as a shooter you flare out to the sides to try to compensate. It doesn't happen much in the pros because these guys have constant repetition in their forms, but in no way is that even close to an offensive foul.
 

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Wiltside
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Re: Today's Game Discussion [ESPN Double-Header: NYK @ BKN | LAC @ CHI - 12/12/12]

LOL. No. He kicked out his right foot, clearly, to draw the foul. They're supposed to be paying extra attention to that. (Is it considered a flop?)

Sheisty way to win the game.
 

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Re: Today's Game Discussion [ESPN Double-Header: NYK @ BKN | LAC @ CHI - 12/12/12]

LOL. No. He kicked out his right foot, clearly, to draw the foul. They're supposed to be paying extra attention to that. (Is it considered a flop?)

Sheisty way to win the game.
That's not the kind of kick-out that players do to draw fouls or create/maintain space. Those kick-outs go forward. Kidd's went to the side, and he did that earlier in the game, to a lesser extent. His legs actually flare out quite a bit more often than they should for a guy who's near the top of the history of the NBA in 3-pointers made. That was not intentional at all.
 

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Limehouse Blues
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Re: Today's Game Discussion [ESPN Double-Header: NYK @ BKN | LAC @ CHI - 12/12/12]

Damn Kidd created that contact by something that was not a basketball move. It's not like the play that Kobe got suspended for, but the principle is the same. I think it should have been an unsportsmanlike technical foul personally, count the three and then shoot one on the other end. It's a somewhat dangerous play as well, you could have some flukish injury because of that.
 

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Re: Today's Game Discussion [ESPN Double-Header: NYK @ BKN | LAC @ CHI - 12/12/12]

Marco Belinelli just did the exact same thing on that 3 for Chicago. Again, his legs didn't go out quite as much, but it is indeed how some players compensate on their shots sometimes.
 

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Wiltside
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Re: Today's Game Discussion [ESPN Double-Header: NYK @ BKN | LAC @ CHI - 12/12/12]

And Kidd does it to create contact. Sometimes you can just tell. I don't know if you play basketball, and I agree sometimes your legs will flare out occasionally, but that didn't look natural. It throws off balance ultimately, and you can tell by watching the clip in slow motion Kidd knew what he was doing. He's done it a lot in his career.
 

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Re: Today's Game Discussion [ESPN Double-Header: NYK @ BKN | LAC @ CHI - 12/12/12]

And Kidd does it to create contact. Sometimes you can just tell. I don't know if you play basketball, and I agree sometimes your legs will flare out occasionally, but that didn't look natural. It throws off balance ultimately, and you can tell by watching the clip in slow motion Kidd knew what he was doing. He's done it a lot in his career.
It's been a while since I've seen the replay, but it looked perfectly natural to me, as natural as something awkward like that can. Yes, it throws off your balance, which weakens the power you get from your legs, which is good compensation when you have an improper form (which Kidd did), get too much lift on your legs (which Kidd did, compared to normal), or too much power from your chest into your jump shot. If you think he knew what he was doing, that's fine. I didn't see it when I saw the replay, and it's incredibly difficult to judge intent with legs.

Kidd's done it a lot in his career, as in trying to draw fouls with his legs? I admit his jump shot form is funky and flares out sometimes, but I can't recall any specific instances of him trying to draw fouls with his legs. Unless you think he tries to do every time his legs flare out, which has happened many times. From my own experience, though, it's an adjustment thing, not something you try to do to draw a foul.

It's fine if we interpret the replay differently. The thing is, do you think the NBA should actually restrict players' forms on their jump shots? As in, your feet are only allowed to go x amount of inches away from your shoulders, like with illegal screens. I think it's a perfectly natural thing to do sometimes, and if you can make the shot, more power to you. But this is also coming from the Reggie Miller fan, and I think that if you can fade away and kick your legs out and forward, risk busting your ass, and still make the shot, it should be a no call. Let the players play.

And yes, I play basketball.
 

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Wiltside
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Re: Today's Game Discussion [ESPN Double-Header: NYK @ BKN | LAC @ CHI - 12/12/12]

I just watched the replay again...come on man...:laugh:

Watch it, please. He kicks out only his right leg, AND AFTER HE RELEASES THE BALL. You can't tell me you play basketball and that's sounds natural to you.

EDIT: Had to get that out before reading your post. No, they shouldn't be only allowed a certain amount of inches, but like much of basketball officiating, it's a judgement call. That kind of thing is a lot easier with the benefit of replay (flopping violations), so it would be a difficult act to judge if they actually are trying to call it an offensive foul now. I completely understand the different natural body motions that come along with one adjusting their shot in the air, but you can tell Kidd often does it to draw fouls. You said it yourself, you're a Reggie fan.I know you know players have done it a lot in the past. He's not the only one who does it presently. It's a "vet move."

Many people who watch a lot of basketball feel the same way

@CoupNBA When the Knicks were in Miami, Kidd took a three, the Miami player ran by him on the left, Kidd landed on two feet and then just fell down.



@CoupNBA
In other words, Kidd kicking his leg out and getting the call at the end of the Nets game isn't surprising in the least.
Don't feel like searching back in my timeline for all of the basketball writers commenting on it, but it's been pretty understood for awhile he does the Reggie kick a whole lot.
 
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