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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The Fan 590 had a nice program tonight that was devoted to trading Vince and how soft he is. After listening to the program for a while, and listening to fan feedback, I have to say I like the idea of trading Vince.

Vince Carter is an athletic guy, but he is also soft, and does not use his athleticism to his advantage to drive to the basket. In comparison, look at Allen Iverson; he is much more smaller in body size but his heart is a thousand times bigger than Carter's. At one time Iverson returned to a game after injuring his shoulder and continued to drive to the bucket. We don't see Vince going and attacking the net even when he is 100% healthy, and he barely gets to the charity strike.


My trade scenario involves the Portland TrailBlazers and Toronto Raptors. Portland would send Rasheed Wallace, Qyntel Woods, a 1st Round Draft Pick, and a 2nd Round Draft Pick to Toronto for Vince Carter, Morris Peterson, and Lamond Murray.

The trade works out perfectly: Due to Toronto and Portland being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Toronto and Portland had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


For Portland, they need a clean and new look; even owner Paul Allen has said that publicly. Vince Carter, Morris Peterson, and Lamond Murray bring that. Portland has been unsuccessful to get any real deals for Rasheed, and this one I think they would take. Their frontcourt would consist of Zach Randolph, Dale Davis, and Morris Peterson. The backcourt would be Damon Stoudamire and Vince Carter.

The Raptors need a makeover; the current team has no heart, no real leadership. Rasheed brings tons of energy for others to feed off of. Qyntel Woods would be a project and would come off the bench, but has lots of potential (think of him as the young Tracy McGrady in the '97 Raptors). We would also get the first and second rounder, which we need especially since our first is heading to the Cavs. The Raptors frontcourt would consist of Rasheed Wallace, Chris Bosh, and Donyell Marshall. Jalen Rose and Alvin Williams would run the backcourt. Instead of Peterson coming off the bench, we would now have Roger Mason Junior and Qyntel Woods, which in my opinion is not too shabby.

Discuss boys and girls.
 

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duke of new york, a#1
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Rasheed is going to give us the right kind of attitude? I think we'd just be substituting one set of problems for another.

The only way we trade Carter is if some rebuilding team gives us a firesale-deal and it's too good to refuse.

It's amazing how quickly people forget that Vince, at the top of his game, is easily one of very best players in the world. We WILL see that Vince again this season.
 

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Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!

It's amazing how quickly people forget that Vince, at the top of his game, is easily one of very best players in the world. We WILL see that Vince again this season.
I'm not too sure about that last part.

With the way Carter is playing, and the way he talks, he doesn't seem like a guy who thinks there is anything wrong with the way he's playing.
 

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The question is, do you see Vince Carter with this team when we win a championship or become serious contenders?

Do we do what Phoenix did with trading Marbury? Trade Carter to get some young talent and draft picks.

For example would you trader Carter for say....Maggette, Wilcox and 1st round pick? I doubt the Clips would do that.
 

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Would this trade make us better for this season? It's possible but by no means a sure thing.

Would it make us better next season? Not unless we shell out big money to hold onto sheed, a player that may or may not be good for the team. If we lost him, we'd be dead in the water, looking at a top three lottery pick.

On the other hand, the Blazers would likely be playoff bound, leaving us with a non-lottery pick.

Damon
VC
Miles
Randolph
Davis

I would actually LOVE to see what Vince could do with this team. He'd get tons of open looks and would thrive with Portland's quick striking offense.


But much more I want to see what Vince, Bosh, and Jalen can accomplish together with a few more pieces to the puzzle. We don't want to lock into Sheed when Bosh is the future.

VC and Bosh are going to be deadly together, I think they just need some more time.
 

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Fear The Red
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I AM SICK OF THESE STUPID TRADE VINCE THREADS

He is our franchise player...I'll admit he has not been playing the way he should be and that the team does need a make over but it does not envolve VC
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
Rasheed is going to give us the right kind of attitude? I think we'd just be substituting one set of problems for another.

The only way we trade Carter is if some rebuilding team gives us a firesale-deal and it's too good to refuse.

It's amazing how quickly people forget that Vince, at the top of his game, is easily one of very best players in the world. We WILL see that Vince again this season.
Yes Rasheed would give us the right kind of attitude. For the past two seasons he has cooled off from getting technical fouls on a regular basis. Rasheed needs a chance of scenary and Toronto would be right for him. When he is on the floor he brings energy; the energy that Vince will NEVER be able to bring.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!


Yes Rasheed would give us the right kind of attitude. For the past two seasons he has cooled off from getting technical fouls on a regular basis. Rasheed needs a chance of scenary and Toronto would be right for him. When he is on the floor he brings energy; the energy that Vince will NEVER be able to bring.
LOL

Rasheed, AKA Mr. CTC (Cut-The-Check)

I'm not saying Toronto wouldn't work out well for him, but the attitude he is displaying right now is exactly the type of attitude I would want to keep away from Chris Bosh.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Speedy, Vince is NOT one of the best players in the NBA. To be the best you have to fill the stats sheet, lead your team, and win games for your team. Does Vince do any of those things? NO, NO, and NO. Vince is a great scorer, but he is not a great rebounder, or assist man. Vince is not a leader, he is a scorer; Charles Oakley was a leader when he was in Toronto, not Vince. When the Raptors are down 5, 10, 20, you DO NOT see Vince encourage and challenge the team, Jalen Rose does that. And lastly, Vince does not win ball games. We were .500 before the trade, and are now 2 games below .500 after the trade, which tells me that the team is not any better, and just might be going downhill. Vince has gotten the chance to lead this team for the past 4 years, and has only done so in 2001 when we were a shot away from the Eastern Conference Finals.

Vince is not a leader. He is a scorer, but not a leader. We NEED a chance of scenary, we need a leader, we need a guy like Rasheed Wallace.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Originally posted by <b>madman</b>!
I AM SICK OF THESE STUPID TRADE VINCE THREADS

He is our franchise player...I'll admit he has not been playing the way he should be and that the team does need a make over but it does not envolve VC
Vince is a softie. He is scared to get scraped while driving to the bucket. When he gets the right attitute to get to the bucket, get to the freethrow line, and stop taking outside shots, then maybe, just maybe he will be untradeable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!


LOL

Rasheed, AKA Mr. CTC (Cut-The-Check)

I'm not saying Toronto wouldn't work out well for him, but the attitude he is displaying right now is exactly the type of attitude I would want to keep away from Chris Bosh.
Thats so untrue. Look at what influence Rasheed had on Zach Randolph and his development. Not too shabby for a guy that was drafted in the 20s.
 

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You don't trade Vince Carter because he is having a bad stretch of 6 to 10 games.

BUT you might at least consider trading Vince if you believe his knee problems are chronic and that he will never play even 60 games in an NBA season again.

That is a big gamble, because if VC all of a sudden trains properly in the offseason and never has these knee problems again then you have given away a very special player that cannot be replaced.

If you believe VC will miss at least 20 games per year every season then the Portland trade doesn't seem too bad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Originally posted by <b>lucky777s</b>!
You don't trade Vince Carter because he is having a bad stretch of 6 to 10 games.

BUT you might at least consider trading Vince if you believe his knee problems are chronic and that he will never play even 60 games in an NBA season again.

That is a big gamble, because if VC all of a sudden trains properly in the offseason and never has these knee problems again then you have given away a very special player that cannot be replaced.

If you believe VC will miss at least 20 games per year every season then the Portland trade doesn't seem too bad.
But don't you feel that Vince has done the best he can for this team? He had all kinds of players surround him. He had his opprotunities. I feel as if he is not the player that should be getting the $90 million contracts. Those players are Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Allen Iverson, Tracy McGrady, and right now Vince is not in their league of skills.
 

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Originally posted by <b>lucky777s</b>!
That is a big gamble, because if VC all of a sudden trains properly in the offseason and never has these knee problems again then you have given away a very special player that cannot be replaced.
Are there any examples of players where that happened? Players who missed 20+ games for three years then were injury free for the rest of their career? It seems like once a player starts having frequent injuries they never get much better.

Vince does have a lot of trade value. Remember he is the #1 vote All-Star vote getter, and he puts fans in the seats. This is worth a lot to GMs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Originally posted by <b>Ballyhoo</b>!

Vince does have a lot of trade value. Remember he is the #1 vote All-Star vote getter, and he puts fans in the seats. This is worth a lot to GMs.
Not true at all. Vince does not put fans into seats, and he is worthless compared to other players. Look at the Raptors attendance on the road. Road Raptors games do not sell tickets. Kobe Bryant and Shaq and the Lakers sell tickets on the road. Kevin Garnett and the TWolves sell tickets. Not the Raptors. Also, Vince Carter's jersey is not even close to sales to LeBron James, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, and Kobe Bryant. As a matter of fact, Vince Carter's jersey isn't even in the front of the NBA Store in New York City, but rather in the back somewhere collecting dust. As for the all-star voting, Vince is getting props from little kids. They see the dunks in 2001 and its like candy to their eyes, and the little kids forget how terrible he has done since that time. He is also the highlight of NBA Live 2004, and when kids play using Vince and when they dunk it down, they go online and vote for the guy. Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson, Tracy McGrady are the guys that should be leading the All-Star Balloting, and NOT Vince "Softie" Carter.
 

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Slasher, you didn't reply to my post. if you're going to come up with a trade for him, at least make it a good one.

Take a look at some of the guys you mentioned: tmac and AI, how are their teams doing this year? Is either always healthy? is tmac a better leader than VC?

VC has been winning games with his unselfishness and clutch scoring. he's had a couple of bad games.
 

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Originally posted by <b>osman</b>!
The question is, do you see Vince Carter with this team when we win a championship or become serious contenders?

Do we do what Phoenix did with trading Marbury? Trade Carter to get some young talent and draft picks.

For example would you trader Carter for say....Maggette, Wilcox and 1st round pick? I doubt the Clips would do that.
Exactly! Thank you.

Is the object here to hover around mediocrity and struggle to make the playoffs year after year? No...the idea is to win an nba championship.

Who cares is sheed leaves after this season? it would give us a decent amount of cap space which we could use on trying to attract a guy like Mehmet Okur, Jamal Crawford....or why not Steve Nash? (not that steve nash is our long term answer either, but signing him for a couple of years couldn't hurt.) We have an excellent piece to a championship puzzle in Chris Bosh...but like osman said, vince WON'T be around when this team starts to contend.

Personally I like the potential of Qyntel Woods. I like this trade idea and believe it could easily happen if we were to agree. Both Qyntel and Sheed have been or are currently on the trading block. This is what makes me think we could get even more in the deal....or maybe hang on to Mo Pete. I think a package of vince, lamond and Moiso would be plenty to entise them to make this deal and i think it would still work cap wise as Mo and Jerome's contracts are close in value.

If we can't take out Mo then we could get them to add Outlaw...another project but does have great potential. Think of darius miles on a team behind Jermaine O'neal (Bosh), Spree in his prime (Woods) and a good pg (telfair, livingston, gordon, felton) who we could take with our first rounder.

Keep in mind that we have OUR 1st this year if we don'tmake the playoffs and we are anything but a lock for the playoffs. Two first round picks would be good for us to build around.

I used to be the guy who would shoot down any trade vince ideas...but why not? Sure he's been the face of our franchise for most of its existance...but things change. I think it's time to move on.
 

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^^^Some may not agree with the Spreewell comparison but i think they are similar in playing style and woods is much more athletic.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Slasher</b>!
Not true at all. Vince does not put fans into seats, and he is worthless compared to other players. Look at the Raptors attendance on the road. Road Raptors games do not sell tickets.
I checked the stats and you are right, the Raptors are middle of the pack in road attendance.

I thought I heard Leo Rautins say the Raptors were among the leaders in road attendance. I guess I was mistaken.
 

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I find it funny to believe how there are bunch of trade ideas involving Vince, all of which would be sitting in the furthest place of Grunwald's mind.
 
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