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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm tired of hearing about KG, TD, the Wallaces, Shaq, etc.

Take any of these guys and see how they performed defensively against the elite bigs in the league. Twin stacks up to any of them.

Shaq scores 17 ppg against Nets and 30 against the Wallaces!!! You might say it's because Detroit shuts down the other guys. Well, Wade is shotting 52% vs. Detroit and 39% vs. Nets!

And Rasheed is shotting 15-58 against the Nets! LMFAO.

And Twin is the best Gasol defender in the league.

How many guys can guard Shaq, Gasol and Jamison?
 

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Hbwoy said:
Sorry to say this, but you are absolutely wrong
i agree w/ you...

Mainly because KG, Wallaces, Shaq are good overall Players! They effect the game in more ways then one! Collins still dosn't have that presence that shaq or ben or kg has! How many people are affraid to even attempt a dunk on shaq (vc and tmac are 2 of em)? Those players install fear into opponents... collins dosn't have that (yet)!!
 

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rundmc00 said:
I'm tired of hearing about KG, TD, the Wallaces, Shaq, etc.

Take any of these guys and see how they performed defensively against the elite bigs in the league. Twin stacks up to any of them.

Shaq scores 17 ppg against Nets and 30 against the Wallaces!!! You might say it's because Detroit shuts down the other guys. Well, Wade is shotting 52% vs. Detroit and 39% vs. Nets!

And Rasheed is shotting 15-58 against the Nets! LMFAO.

And Twin is the best Gasol defender in the league.

How many guys can guard Shaq, Gasol and Jamison?
Twin is the best lamp-post defender in the league!

Twin looks better in the team D that makes up for his deficiencies.

He tries as a positional defender.

In the playoffs, Twin gets unmasked

Against better 4s, like TD, Twin gets unmasked.

Twin is a fine backup.

The ghost of K-Mart is better.

Give me any legit PF and the NETS'd be, dare I say, in-vince-able!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
NBASCOUT2005 said:
Twin is the best lamp-post defender in the league!

Twin looks better in the team D that makes up for his deficiencies.

He tries as a positional defender.

In the playoffs, Twin gets unmasked

Against better 4s, like TD, Twin gets unmasked.

Twin is a fine backup.

The ghost of K-Mart is better.

Give me any legit PF and the NETS'd be, dare I say, in-vince-able!
I am talking solely man-on-man defense against the elite PFs/Cs of the league.

Instead of opinions look at the numbers. Pick three elite offensive PF/C and check their stats against Twin and then against TD, Shaq, Wallaces, KG, etc.

You will be surprised to see that Twin does better than any of them. And if someone like Sheed was a better post defender, it would show in the numbers!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
NBASCOUT2005 said:
Twin is the best lamp-post defender in the league!

Twin looks better in the team D that makes up for his deficiencies.

He tries as a positional defender.

In the playoffs, Twin gets unmasked

Against better 4s, like TD, Twin gets unmasked.

Twin is a fine backup.

The ghost of K-Mart is better.

Give me any legit PF and the NETS'd be, dare I say, in-vince-able!
Try agani Mr. Blowhard.

In the last 4 games against TD, his FG% is 43%. Not bad against considering he is a 50% shooter.

And Twin has played Shaq better than anyone this year.

And the same goes for Gasol.

Do you know Sheed is 15-58 against Twin this year?

Open your eyes and realize Twin deserves to be on the All-NBA defensive team!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Lord-SMX said:
i agree w/ you...

Mainly because KG, Wallaces, Shaq are good overall Players! They effect the game in more ways then one! Collins still dosn't have that presence that shaq or ben or kg has! How many people are affraid to even attempt a dunk on shaq (vc and tmac are 2 of em)? Those players install fear into opponents... collins dosn't have that (yet)!!
I will repeat. Twin is the best one-on-one post defender in the league.

For example, if you were playing Gasol tonight...the guy in the league that is best at rendering him harmless is Twin. Not Sheed, not TD, not KG., not Ben Wallace...got it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
rundmc00 said:
I will repeat. Twin is the best one-on-one post defender in the league.

For example, if you were playing Gasol tonight...the guy in the league that is best at rendering him harmless is Twin. Not Sheed, not TD, not KG., not Ben Wallace...got it?
More data: Gasol is averaging over 30 points and shooting over 50% against the Wallaces! How come he shoots under 40% against Twin and averages 15 ppg?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Grandmazter3 said:
Thats a bit of a reach but I would say he is one of the best.
Try these numbers on for size:

Shaq against Detroit - 30 ppg; Shaq against Twin - 17 ppg

Gasol against Detroit - 30 ppg; Gasol against Twin - 15 ppg

ZachR against Detroit - 29 ppg; ZachR against Twin - 16 ppg

TD against Detroit - 18 ppg; ZachR against Twin - 19 ppg

Jamson against Detroit - 18 ppg; Jamison against Twin - 17 ppg

In other words, elite bigs score more against the Wallaces than Twin.
 

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rundmc00 said:
I am talking solely man-on-man defense against the elite PFs/Cs of the league.

Instead of opinions look at the numbers. Pick three elite offensive PF/C and check their stats against Twin and then against TD, Shaq, Wallaces, KG, etc.

You will be surprised to see that Twin does better than any of them. And if someone like Sheed was a better post defender, it would show in the numbers!
Figures lie. And liars figure.

I've seen enough of Twin at crucial junctures.

He's a very seductive chameleon. His spots (e.g., stats) change often.

He morphs into an all-pro defender from a statue 'from time-to-time.' The rest of the league helps him out ... starting with JVG's recent plug, etc.

The only ones that want him to get that recognition and remain a starting 4 for the NETS are opponents.

Remember that P. Jax wanted Oakley desperately to remain at the 4 for the NYK during the Riley era. Phil didn't miss a beat when talking up the opponents weakest link - Oak.

Heaping praise on the likes of Oak and Mase was good for CHI. That was Phil's advantage.

Oak, as good as he was, was a choke-artist. Mase, too! Twin is not nearly as good as Oak.

If you think Oak was so good, why did they trade him for Cartwright?

If you want a title, steer clear of Twin.

P.S. Oak was good enough to lose with. Twin is more than the same.

*Trivia: POR offered 21yr old Jermaine O'Neal to NYK for 30 something Oak and Mase. NYK balked and countered with one or the other. POR wanted both. Both were past-their-prime with serious flaws that'd been unmasked repeatedly. I'd have taken Jermaine's potential over the two past-their prime, veteran, good-enough-to-lose-with choke-artists any day!!! CHI took Cartwright's potential over Oakley's proven ability, didn't they? How many rings are on Jax's fingers vs. Riles?
 
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rundmc00 said:
Try these numbers on for size:

Shaq against Detroit - 30 ppg; Shaq against Twin - 17 ppg

Gasol against Detroit - 30 ppg; Gasol against Twin - 15 ppg

ZachR against Detroit - 29 ppg; ZachR against Twin - 16 ppg

TD against Detroit - 18 ppg; ZachR against Twin - 19 ppg

Jamson against Detroit - 18 ppg; Jamison against Twin - 17 ppg

In other words, elite bigs score more against the Wallaces than Twin.
Pretty impressive.
 

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NBASCOUT2005 said:
Figures lie. And liars figure.

I've seen enough of Twin at crucial junctures.

He's a very seductive chameleon. His spots (e.g., stats) change often.

He morphs into an all-pro defender from a statue from time to time. The rest of the league helps him out starting with JVG.

The only ones that want him to get that recognition and remain a starting 4 for the NETS are opponents.

Remember that P. Jax wanted Oakley desperately to remain at the 4 for the NYK during the Riley era. Phil didn't miss a beat when talking up the opponents weakest link - Oak. Heaping praise on the likes of Oak and Mason was good for CHI. That was Phil's advantage.

Oak, as good as he was, was a choke-artist. Mase, too! Twin is not nearly as good as Oak.

If you want a title, steer clear of Twin.

P.S. Oak was good enough to lose with. Twin is a good enough tease to lose with!

What a boring, horrendous post.
 

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NBASCOUT2005 said:
Figures lie. And liars figure.

I've seen enough of Twin at crucial junctures.

He's a very seductive chameleon. His spots (e.g., stats) change often.

He morphs into an all-pro defender from a statue from time to time. The rest of the league helps him out starting with JVG.

The only ones that want him to get that recognition and remain a starting 4 for the NETS are opponents.

Remember that P. Jax wanted Oakley desperately to remain at the 4 for the NYK during the Riley era. Phil didn't miss a beat when talking up the opponents weakest link - Oak. Heaping praise on the likes of Oak and Mason was good for CHI. That was Phil's advantage.

Oak, as good as he was, was a choke-artist. Mase, too! Twin is not nearly as good as Oak.

If you want a title, steer clear of Twin.

P.S. Oak was good enough to lose with. Twin is a good enough tease to lose with!
So I should ignore statistical evidence, the praise of his own coach and opposing coaches, his own teammates and opposing players and rely on an overbearing, obnoxious drone who thinks verbiage equals intelligence? Nah.
 

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Before we dub Twin the Gasol stopper, lets not forget he played 45 mins the game before in the nets last meeting against the grizz. Rasheed Wallace is a better one on one low post defender than Twin, KG is a better low post one on one defender than twin. Ben Wallace is a better low post one on one defender than twin. Kwame Brown is quietly moving up the list as one of the best low post defenders in the league. Twin is certainly up there as one of the best, but the best NAH!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Here is the complete list:

Shaq against Detroit - 30 ppg; Shaq against Twin - 17 ppg

Gasol against Detroit - 30 ppg; Gasol against Twin - 15 ppg

ZachR against Detroit - 29 ppg; ZachR against Twin - 16 ppg

TD against Detroit - 18 ppg; ZachR against Twin - 19 ppg

Jamson against Detroit - 18 ppg; Jamison against Twin - 17 ppg

Brand against Detroit - 33 ppg; Brand against Twin - 20 ppg

Nowitzski against Detroit - 24 ppg; Nowitzski against Twin - 26 ppg

Bosh against Detroit - 26 ppg; Bosh against Twin - 23 ppg

KG against Detroit - 16 ppg; KG against Twin - 25 ppg

On average (using a simple rather than weighted average), Twin gives up 20 points and the Wallaces give up 25. And these games make up about 1/3 of this season so it is defiantely a significant sample.

Consider the 5 point difference in the numbers and that Detroit help defense (the other Wallace) is better than the Nets...it is pretty clear if I was an elite big I'd rather play Detroit than Twin.

All-NBA please!!!
 
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