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Discussion Starter #41
Possible the victim is a minor and therefore would need to be kept confidential.
The filing said the victim was a junior at the America East school academically, sophomore eligibility, so it's not a minor. Filing also mentioned wanting name confidential at least during the process with the AE school for fear of retaliation.

Additionally, as we all know to tread with care and caution in situations like these, please, let's take this seriously. Seen a few jokes or would-be jokes posted here by some. Sexual assault and rape allegations are no joke, so stop that. Again, don't post something you are later going to regret.
 

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It's a slippery slope; while it doesn't sound like UNH (no swimmers from VT, weren't home for a hockey game on 11/15, tend to be pretty aggressive with suspensions on this kind of thing -- Frank Okeke was booted from the team a few years ago for some rumored indiscretions, we don't really know what they were -- 6 or 7 football players were booted from the team for a fight last year), if it were, I'd absolutely want whomever the individual reported this to who replied in the way indicated to be terminated, and I'd need to take a long look at the culture of the basketball program inspiring that kind of message to be said.

There's no real way to prove what's listed here was known by a coach, but you have to wonder -- doubt that coach would be allowed to stay on.

Most importantly, though, I feel for the victim. Anyone doing anything here to undermine her credibility, identify her or attack her is a shameful, horrible individual.
 

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I was hoping I wouldn't have to say this, but I will as a precaution.

Over the course of the day, I've seen on multiple forums, including Twitter and Reddit, trying to identify the victim (thankfully with no success) with the purpose of trying to shame her. I trust posters here wouldn't, but if it gets to that point, even with new posters, I'll have to lock the thread and delete the post.
Dont lock thread just delete the post and ban the person or at freeze them for a couple months if you can
 

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"
I think bing grad is right just call the school and if you do not get an emphatic NO than it was them. If you get a ”no comment” you know it was them....every school in AEC wants to make sure everyone knows this wasn’t them....
 

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The UNH women's hockey team was home against Northeastern on 11/15. The complaint didn't say it was a men's hockey game (or even ice hockey, it just said "half time of a hockey game").

I still don't think it was UNH, signs point towards UVM except the "not great" comment.
 

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And yes, I agree on naming the victim. Had either UNH or Maine had only one or two women's swimmer(s) listed from Vermont I would not have posted the results of my sleuthing. That would be lower than low.

We all have an interest in knowing what school is screwing this up so terribly. None of us have an interest in knowing who the actual victim is.
 

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There's no real way to prove what's listed here was known by a coach, but you have to wonder -- doubt that coach would be allowed to stay on.
Let's look at this element if we can. There's nothing that specifically mentions a member of the basketball coaching staff (although some less descriptive "athletic department staff" terminology is used). But even if they were aware of this...what is their responsibility here?

From my interpretation (others may differ) it's not that she was so much denied the ability to seek recourse, but rather that she was heavily manipulated/muscled while seeking that recourse. A subtle difference, but I'd argue it is a difference.

If I'm the basketball coach, my stance is something to the effect of "The school has a process for handling these issues. My administration said they were handling this issue, and I agreed to choose my actions based on the results of that process. And when my administration said the result was an informal complaint against a player, I followed those guidelines."

There are a myriad of reasons why a victim would choose not to pursue police action that in no way change the credibility of their account. But I do think that, for lack of a better term, "personnel issues" are a lot harder/more vague when the police aren't involved.
 

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One thing I’ve noticed is that if the three schools this could be, none of the local newspapers have reported on it, which would indicate that they probably hadn’t heard about it (low staff at a small town newspaper) or got a no comment and have no story on top of it to run.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
One thing I’ve noticed is that if the three schools this could be, none of the local newspapers have reported on it, which would indicate that they probably hadn’t heard about it (low staff at a small town newspaper) or got a no comment and have no story on top of it to run.
Possibly, but the story and filing were released only a day or two ago. And, the story is pretty buried on ESPN. I don't think it ever made the front page. Only reason I got the ESPN article is because someone sent it to me...then later last night someone sent me a link to the filing, so that means it's being picked up and spreading from here privately. Might only be a matter of time before any media in the suspected areas gets hold of it.

That being said, papers need a lot to corroborate here so that could be taking some time; even if it's just trying to get a statement they have to figure a lot out before making that call probably. Also, given the COVID-19 stuff, some of these guys might be reassigned for the time being or possibly on furlough so they can't work even if they wanted because we know local print media at least is a hard business. If there's nothing on it in terms of follow up in the next week or so, it likely means either couldn't get far with it for some reason, or unaware it existed.
 

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Let's look at this element if we can. There's nothing that specifically mentions a member of the basketball coaching staff (although some less descriptive "athletic department staff" terminology is used). But even if they were aware of this...what is their responsibility here?

From my interpretation (others may differ) it's not that she was so much denied the ability to seek recourse, but rather that she was heavily manipulated/muscled while seeking that recourse. A subtle difference, but I'd argue it is a difference.

If I'm the basketball coach, my stance is something to the effect of "The school has a process for handling these issues. My administration said they were handling this issue, and I agreed to choose my actions based on the results of that process. And when my administration said the result was an informal complaint against a player, I followed those guidelines."

There are a myriad of reasons why a victim would choose not to pursue police action that in no way change the credibility of their account. But I do think that, for lack of a better term, "personnel issues" are a lot harder/more vague when the police aren't involved.
it doesnt matter. it is 2020. anything can happen when it comes to this stuff regardless of what he knew or did not know. He may walk away with some money but if the public outcry is enough he will be gone.

I think of Baylor football. Brilles was tossed even though he had nothing to do with the title IX investigations and two of the guys were eventually cleared of their allegations. Everyone else got another job except him... not saying he was right or wrong but again if the public outcry is enough anything can happen.
 

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A program can go one of two ways when allegations like these arise:

It can acknowledge that gross misconduct occurred, and then act quickly and decisively to rectify the situation. Or it can obfuscate, cover up, deny, and hope that they can get away with it.

New Hampshire, Stony Brook, and Albany have all gone this route in recent years.

Binghamton chose option 2 in 2009, and it resulted in the firing of multiple university officials, a state investigation, and a decade of irrelevancy. If these allegations prove to be anything close to accurate, someone's about to join them.
 

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No one is trying to dox the victim. People are just trying to figure out which school it is (or, if its "their school" rather) and there's more information provided on the victim and her circumstances (swim team, Vermont resident, junior standing, etc) in the lawsuit than there is on the AD staffers, the school or the perpetrator himself. I know nothing about women's swim teams or the swimmers themselves at any school (though I will say it was obvious a bond developed between UVM men's basketball and the women's swim team due to that mental health thing TBH started).

I think it's very important to note the victim was scholarship athlete. While there are a handful of in-state swimmers on Vermont's rosters, I would guess these are mostly walk-ons (though it looks like UVM's top swimmer is a Junior from Brattleboro). UVM women's swimming only offers 5.75 scholarships.

Regardless, this does not look good for UVM. It's hard to paint a scenario where it could be Maine or UNH with all available information. Hopefully it was just a tragic misunderstanding by all parties and will be sorted out without any collateral damage....time will tell.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
No one is trying to dox the victim. People are just trying to figure out which school it is (or, if its "their school" rather) and there's more information provided on the victim and her circumstances (swim team, Vermont resident, junior standing, etc) in the lawsuit than there is on the AD staffers, the school or the perpetrator himself. I know nothing about women's swim teams or the swimmers themselves at any school (though I will say it was obvious a bond developed between UVM men's basketball and the women's swim team due to that mental health thing TBH started).

I think it's very important to note the victim was scholarship athlete. While there are a handful of in-state swimmers on Vermont's rosters, I would guess these are mostly walk-ons (though it looks like UVM's top swimmer is a Junior from Brattleboro). UVM women's swimming only offers 5.75 scholarships.

Regardless, this does not look good for UVM. It's hard to paint a scenario where it could be Maine or UNH with all available information. Hopefully it was just a tragic misunderstanding by all parties and will be sorted out without any collateral damage....time will tell.
Just remember "citizen of Vermont" does not necesarily mean the person is "from" Vermont in the born and raised sense in this suit. That can mean that the person resides there in some capacity.

In terms of 5.75 scholarships, while true, remember that "scholarship athlete" and swimming can be very vague because 0.10 of a scholarship is a scholarship by definition, and it is allowed in a sport like swimming.
 

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Just remember "citizen of Vermont" does not necesarily mean the person is "from" Vermont in the born and raised sense in this suit. That can mean that the person resides there in some capacity.

In terms of 5.75 scholarships, while true, remember that "scholarship athlete" and swimming can be very vague because 0.10 of a scholarship is a scholarship by definition, and it is allowed in a sport like swimming.
That’s pretty interesting. Maybe others already understood this, and I’m behind the curve. I had not realized that if you have 5 scholarships to give out, you could theoretically break each one into 4 pieces and partially fund 20 people. I mean, it makes complete sense, but I just hadn’t put it together, I suppose because I mostly follow sports like basketball and football where the scholarship is basically an all or none concept.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
That’s pretty interesting. Maybe others already understood this, and I’m behind the curve. I had not realized that if you have 5 scholarships to give out, you could theoretically break each one into 4 pieces and partially fund 20 people. I mean, it makes complete sense, but I just hadn’t put it together, I suppose because I mostly follow sports like basketball and football where the scholarship is basically an all or none concept.
Yes, it's common in these sports as well as soccer. lax and hockey in D1/D2. Hockey has 18 scholarships total which is the full amount allowed by the NCAA...you see many get near full scholarships but often it might be a block of 10 to 14 players and the rest get different amounts divided up. Hockey rosters generally have 25-28 guys depending on the size, so you can probably count on one hand the guys who aren't getting any type of scholarship money at all. Good players generally get 70% or more covered in hockey at least. The percentages and promising more based on performance and taking away some is what got Sneddon in trouble when he had a lot of those mass departures at the tail end of his tenure since scholarships are renewable on year-to-year basis.
 

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As I read through this, a line from Apollo 13 comes to mind. I'm going to paraphrase, "to get these guys back 1000 things have to happen successfully, and we are on number 3." We don't have enough information about any of this to keep wildly speculating about what happened, who know what, who should be held responsible. I for one will be patient, wait for some real facts to come to light, if they ever do, and then I will run with my opinions and feelings. I just don;t think there is anywhere near enough to do that yet. I also know, from just my personal being a non-legal person, is that these things are better litigated in a court room and not through the media. We are probably getting some of the truth, but not the whole truth and nothing but the truth this way.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
Ice Hockey doesn't have a halftime.
That's your takeaway? Get a grip. It's a matter of semantics as I am sure this meeting took place in between periods at a hockey game. The phrasing of it is completely irrelevant, given anyone with any sense knows what it meant in context.
 
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