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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
More on Ming...

The GOOD:

-Passed very well out of the post...

-Able to draw the opposing "center" out of the paint w.his shooting range, which for Houston could really open up the paint for Francis and Mobley

- Moved very well, not a "stiff" - though needs to be able to sustain it (see conditioning as bad below)

Top two aspects were reminscent of Sabonis (w/o the wide body)
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The BAD:

- Very relunctant to go to the basket. This was before he got into foul trouble.

-Unable to establish position down low, easily pushed away from the basket. Easily fronted. Extremely weak upper body. Has a sunken chest.

-Unable to get back in transition. On USA breaks, Ming didn't even get past half court. Not use to running game...conditioning poor
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Life in the NBA- Three things that will work against Ming in the NBA

1). NBA games will be MORE physical w/. a lot more contact allowed, and he'll have to match up against taller players. Team USA has PF's playing the 5 position.

2). Defensive 3 second rule. NBA doesn't allow players to camp out under the basket in the paint. Ming won't be as able to alter shots and won't be as much of a defensive presence. China basically played 3/2 or 2/2/1 zone with Ming and Bateer sitting in the paint under the basket. Ming never really matched up against anyone. NBA's limited zones are match up zones.

3). Speed of the game. Ming will have to run a lot more esp. in the West.

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General comments about Chinese team-

China really has to incorporate weight training in their program.
Supposedly they don't do any...and it showed....

In 12 to 15 years though, China may be a powerhouse......And since they'll be 5 Chinese men for every 3.5 Chinese women, all those extra men will have to have something to do to get rid of their frustrations LOL
 

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Lets throw this out there right now. The Chinese team have no clue how to best utilize Ming. When he gets to the Rockets, Rudy T will have him in better spots to do better things, though he probably will not be as productive as his overall stats in the World Championships.
 

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Ming will probably not make the All-star team. Neither ROY.

Ming will be considered successfull if he can just average around 13 pts, 8 rbs, and 2 blks (not hard for him). The Rockets will not play him a lot but just around 25 mins or so per game. U are right. Rudy will put Ming at the right spot and utilize him better than the Chinese team.
 

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There is no doubt that there will be an adjustment period for MIng. There will be lots of peaks and valleys in his progression and rest assured, the nay sayers will call him out as a bust at various stages of his rookie campaign.

That said, if you look at the situation objectively, it's hard to imagine him not eventually becoming an impact player in this league.

His biggest problems (weight, conditioning) are things that will likely diminish as he ages and matures.

I just can't see how a guy with his size, agility, and basketball skills won't make a mark in this league.

The only thing I see stopping Yao from becoming a dominant center is the same rash of injuries that has slowed down other players on his height.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Originally posted by <b>LoaKhoet</b>!
Ming will probably not make the All-star team. Neither ROY.

Ming will be considered successfull if he can just average around 13 pts, 8 rbs, and 2 blks (not hard for him). The Rockets will not play him a lot but just around 25 mins or so per game. U are right. Rudy will put Ming at the right spot and utilize him better than the Chinese team.
The rules are different in the NBA than they are in the World's

At the World's the rules are helping Ming out.

In the NBA with the narrower paint at the basket, the NBA 3 second rule, and restricted use of zones will adversely effect both his block and rebounding stats.

Ming in his two games against the US has had 19 bds, only 4 of which have been on the offensive end.

When you can stand under the basket on defense, don't have to match up on anyone, in a wider painted area like at the World's, you're going to be in a better postion to grab defensive boards, and reject opponents shots.

But when you have to clear out of a narrower lane within 3 seconds and be within an arm's length of an opposing player ( or play more man to man like in the NBA), you're not going to be as well positioned to get boards or reject shots.

With permissive zones, it's actually hard to tell how well Ming boxes out.

Playing more man to man will also result in Ming picking up more fouls...

So there will also be a big adjsutment to NBA rules that won't work in his favor in regards to stats.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Originally posted by <b>Potatoe</b>!
His biggest problems (weight, conditioning) are things that will likely diminish as he ages and matures.

The only thing I see stopping Yao from becoming a dominant center is the same rash of injuries that has slowed down other players on his height.
Actually, his biggest problem isn't weight, it is strength.

As he ages and matures, this won't necessarily diminish . Even if Ming worked out and ate like a body builder, because of his genetically narrow frame, he won't be able to put on much mass in his upper body.
 

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Originally posted by <b>ztect</b>!


Actually, his biggest problem isn't weight, it is strength.

As he ages and matures, this won't necessarily diminish . Even if Ming worked out and ate like a body builder, because of his genetically narrow frame, he won't be able to put on much mass in his upper body.

I disagree with that,,,

Most 4's and 5's, come into the league needing to add size and strength, especially in their upper body.

Most are quite successfull BTW.

Ming may not get much "bigger" in his upper body but strength can be added without adding mass to any frame or body type.

As he ages and continues to work out he can add strength, and as you said that is the real problem.

Saying that Yao Ming can not get stronger when virtually every other athlete can, is nothing more than a jaded and pessimistic
opinion.
 

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Originally posted by <b>ztect</b>!


The rules are different in the NBA than they are in the World's

At the World's the rules are helping Ming out.

In the NBA with the narrower paint at the basket, the NBA 3 second rule, and restricted use of zones will adversely effect both his block and rebounding stats.

Ming in his two games against the US has had 19 bds, only 4 of which have been on the offensive end.

When you can stand under the basket on defense, don't have to match up on anyone, in a wider painted area like at the World's, you're going to be in a better postion to grab defensive boards, and reject opponents shots.

But when you have to clear out of a narrower lane within 3 seconds and be within an arm's length of an opposing player ( or play more man to man like in the NBA), you're not going to be as well positioned to get boards or reject shots.

With permissive zones, it's actually hard to tell how well Ming boxes out.

Playing more man to man will also result in Ming picking up more fouls...

So there will also be a big adjsutment to NBA rules that won't work in his favor in regards to stats.
sounds more like you knitpicking his game
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!


sounds more like you knitpicking his game
Nope

You can't stand under the basket on defense in the NBA.
like you can in the Worlds
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Originally posted by <b>Potatoe</b>!



I disagree with that,,,

Most 4's and 5's, come into the league needing to add size and strength, especially in their upper body.

Most are quite successfull BTW.

Ming may not get much "bigger" in his upper body but strength can be added without adding mass to any frame or body type.

As he ages and continues to work out he can add strength, and as you said that is the real problem.

Saying that Yao Ming can not get stronger when virtually every other athlete can, is nothing more than a jaded and pessimistic
opinion.
Shawn Bradley put on about 40 lbs, but never got significantly stronger.

Manute Bol never got stronger.

Ming may get a little stronger but not siginificantly so to make much difference. He just has a extremely narrow frame and a sunken chest. No amount of weight training will change this.

Bateer, on the other hand, could bulk up quite a bit.

Besides, the weight Ming has put on recently probably has a lot to do with why his stamina is so bad. Plus weight for weight's sake may not only undermine Ming's stamina, but may adversely effect his speed.

Ming's game will NEVER be predicated upon power.

Ming will be better pulling the opposing team's big men away from the basket to open up the lane for Francis, Mobley and others. Ming's shooting touch will necessitate that other teams guard him with size on the perimeter. Ming's passing ability will allow him to hit the open cutters.

I can actually see him having 3 to 4 assists per game in the NBA.
Though his rebounding and blocks will be down from FIBA production due to rules differences.
 

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Bradley is now way stronger than he was when he entered the league. He still is a twig but he is a lot better than he was in his rookie season.

Ming is bigger and thicker than Bradley is now so when he reaches his prime is should be a lot less of an issue for him.

You are right when you say that Ming will likely never be a banger, but he should be easily strong enough to hold down his position against all but a few of the centers in this league.

The guys who give him problems down low wont have much luck trying to guard him out on the perimeter, so either way he will probably cause havoc for the opposition.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Originally posted by <b>Potatoe</b>!
Bradley is now way stronger than he was when he entered the league. He still is a twig but he is a lot better than he was in his rookie season.

Ming is bigger and thicker than Bradley is now so when he reaches his prime is should be a lot less of an issue for him.

You are right when you say that Ming will likely never be a banger, but he should be easily strong enough to hold down his position against all but a few of the centers in this league.
Ming to me physically, is a longer LaFrenz....
though LaFrenz is still stronger up top.

The guys who give him problems down low wont have much luck trying to guard him out on the perimeter, so either way he will probably cause havoc for the opposition.
That's why teams with twin towers will be better able to match up against him

Downlow match up against- Curry, Haywood, Hilerio, ....
Perimeter match up- Chandler, Jeffries, Tskisa.

Anyway, Ming brings interesting (passing) and unprecendented (touch and speed of release for size) skills to the table.

He has a big adjustment to make to the NBA (rules, speed of game, physical game) that IMO will be much harder than for a player like Gasol.

IMO he won't really be able to be assessed until his 3rd year in the league.

His fundamentals are much better than Chandler's. But Chandler still is much faster and more athletic. Curry is much more in the Dawkins,Malone, Shaq, big wide body physical 5 mold so there really isn't much point in comparing Ming and Curry.

Curry and Ming could have been an interesting line-up much like Bateer and Ming is.
 

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When the NBA regular season start I don't think that Yao Ming won't put the same numbers like he did in his team in China and in the world games. Actually let me rephrase it with different words.........

I know that Yao Ming won't put the same numbers every single game in the regular season then he did in his team in China and in the world games. He might have some good games durning the season but not every single games.

Yao Ming got lot of thing to develop into the pros....IN NBA is a different level then any other leagues including the world games. Its much physical, its much tentation, much aggressive, and much potiental.

In the World Games I was impressed some of Yao's skill like what Ztect list on his first post. But damn he need to gain and get more muscles in his upper body!
 

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I was at the US vs China game on Saturday night and just let me tell you that it was a borefest. The refs completely killed that game for both teams and I was just amazed at how bad the officiating was.

I don't know how the game was called, but I was down right confused on 6-8 calls where there looked to be absolutely no foul or no violation. Did it come off the same way on TV?

I attempted to start a "We Want JWill" chant in the middle of the 3rd quarter and again in the 4th quarter, but didn't get much help... people were to busy with the "We Want Reggie" chants.

I don't really have much to say about the game really because I spent quarters 2, 3 and 4 talking with a guy from Shanghai about Yao Ming. He spoke English very well and tried to teach me a couple words that the crowd of people he was with kept yelling.

He told me that Yao plays much more tentatively for the National team then he did for the Sharks. He mentioned that with the Sharks, he is a go to guy while he is the 3rd or 4th option for the Chinese team. When I asked him why, he said it was a seniority thing. His favorite player was Fangyu, btw...

Also, when I went out to the clubs on Saturday night, I met some of the players from various teams, including Hidayet Turkoglu. Didn't see any of the USA guys out... but then again, the Europeans are known for thier love of clubbing.

Retro.

Not sure on the next game I'll be going too... just will have to wait and see.
 

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Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
I was at the US vs China game on Saturday night and just let me tell you that it was a borefest. The refs completely killed that game for both teams and I was just amazed at how bad the officiating was.

I don't know how the game was called, but I was down right confused on 6-8 calls where there looked to be absolutely no foul or no violation. Did it come off the same way on TV?
The officiating is beyond bewildering. I understand FIBA (which is clearly a branch of Al Qaeda) interprets the 24-second rule differently, for example (the ball has to hit the rim before the clock expires as opposed to just being released), but these guys are botching even that interpretation. In the China game there were at least two instances where the shot made it to the rim in time and was in fact bouncing around the rim when the horn sounded and the violation was whistled.

If a big man drags his pivot foot slightly, they'll call a travel. But if any player initiates a move off the dribble, they're allowed unlimited steps. Ming took about nine steps on that baseline drive where he set up Hu for a corner three. Despite the giant trapezoidal lane, I haven't seen a single three-second call. Lastly, these guys have even worse judgment than NBA/NCAA officials do in the area of player control fouls (and I didn't think that was possible).

All in all, not a big deal, but I'll be a little concerned if going up against Yugoslavia the refs are from former Soviet bloc nations. That might get spicy.

I attempted to start a "We Want JWill" chant in the middle of the 3rd quarter and again in the 4th quarter, but didn't get much help... people were to busy with the "We Want Reggie" chants.
The thing of it is JWill really could be helping this team in the first half, even in the closer games. There isn't anyone else in this tournament remotely as quick as he is, and while Baron Davis is doing a great job of hawking the ball, Miller's not exactly busting his hump on that end of the floor. I can't see the harm in sending Jay out for 3-4 minutes bridging the 1st and 2nd qtrs just to wreak havoc, but Karl's one of those Carolina guys obsessed with seniority and all that crap. By all accounts Russia's pretty bad, so maybe he'll get some run tonight.

I don't really have much to say about the game really because I spent quarters 2, 3 and 4 talking with a guy from Shanghai about Yao Ming. He spoke English very well and tried to teach me a couple words that the crowd of people he was with kept yelling.

He told me that Yao plays much more tentatively for the National team then he did for the Sharks. He mentioned that with the Sharks, he is a go to guy while he is the 3rd or 4th option for the Chinese team. When I asked him why, he said it was a seniority thing. His favorite player was Fangyu, btw...
So most of the Chinese people in attendance were nationals? I was curious about that, as well as where the players were staying and what kind of government presence travels with them. Is Yao going to have an entourage of that kind when he goes to Houston? He is in for a wild time--chartered flights, luxury hotels, personal chef/nutritionist, etc. He seems to have a great sense of humor; I hope ESPN the mag or somebody does a first-year diary with Yao.

Also, when I went out to the clubs on Saturday night, I met some of the players from various teams, including Hidayet Turkoglu. Didn't see any of the USA guys out... but then again, the Europeans are known for thier love of clubbing.
There are clubs in Indy? j/k

Not sure on the next game I'll be going too... just will have to wait and see.
You have to go to as many of these things as you can, heaven only knows when it'll be in the states again. I have a mild hatred of soccer, but when the World Cup was in the U.S. in 94 I had the opportunity to go to three games in Chicago, and I couldn't have enjoyed myself more. Nothing beats a big international sporting event.

Thanks for the post, Retro.
 

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I think the next game is 9 o'clock tonight on TNT, we're playing Russia.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Retro....

What does Ming look like in real life?

Is his upper body as narrow as it appears on tv?
Or does his upper body appear narrower, simply because his lower body (legs) are large?


Retro, since you're also some one who weight trains, do you think that Ming has the body type and frame on which he can get much larger in his upper body?
 
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