[grizzfan]

Well....nobody knows what Jerry West is upto
Vladimir Stepania worked out for him in Utah during the summer league....
Now that we already have Lorenzen, TMass, Trebnyaski and Archibald ( unsigned...but will sign soon ), there is no point in getting Stepania...
If we really do need somebody it is probably some one who can play the 2-3...
If we do get Stepania, then it means that TMass is definitely gone.
Here is the link:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basketball/heat/sfl-heat-nba250jul25.story?coll=sfla-sports-heat

 

[Mem-fizz]

Stepania... Why not?

We have Wright, Massenburg (old), Archibald (rookie) and Trybanski (rookie, not good enough for NBA).

Stepania has experience (4 years) and he is still young (26). If we cannot sign a starter C, who will backup Wright?.

It seems no easy to get a good C for Swift, Knight or Dickerson trade, and there is not a good FA market this summer.

Stepania could play about 15-20 Mpg next season and he will get some trade value for next summer.


(Honestly, I don´t like Stepania, but there is not many chances...)

 

[robyg1974]

Huh?

Originally posted by grizzfan
Well....nobody knows what Jerry West is upto
Vladimir Stepania worked out for him in Utah during the summer league....
Now that we already have Lorenzen, TMass, Trebnyaski and Archibald ( unsigned...but will sign soon ), there is no point in getting Stepania...
If we really do need somebody it is probably some one who can play the 2-3...
If we do get Stepania, then it means that TMass is definitely gone.
Here is the link:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basketball/heat/sfl-heat-nba250jul25.story?coll=sfla-sports-heat

Why would the Grizz need another SG? They have Dickerson, Person, and Giricek already!

As Mem-fizz correctly points out, the Polish kid is a project (a MAJOR project, he won't touch the floor this season); Archibald was an insurance pick (just in case the team couldn't come up with some big bodies), he's not really ready to contribute at the NBA level; Massenburg is a journeyman backup who is only getting worse; and Wright is undersized as HELL!

Vladimir Stepania, along with several other currently available free agent centers (Brian Skinner, Michael Doleac, Kevin Willis, Mark Blount, Keon Clark), would play PLENTY of minutes for the Grizz! This is the Western Conference we're talking about, people!

BOTTOM LINE: I've said this before, I'll say it again. Jerry West is the best GM and talent evaluator in the NBA, PERIOD. The dude didn' t just build ONE dynasty in L.A.--he built TWO! In other words, give the guy a benefit of the doubt here--if he thinks Vladimir Stepania is worth signing, then that means that Vladimir Stepania is worth signing. Keep in mind that the Grizz are still at least a couple of years away from contending for the playoffs, so in the meantime, this team needs to AT LEAST be COMPETITIVE--and in order to be COMPETITIVE, this team needs to get bigger, first and foremost!

I also think that it wouldn't hurt to trade for Bonzi Wells. How about THIS trade:

Bonzi Wells and Damon Stoudamire to the Grizz; Jason Williams, Michael Dickerson, Brevin Knight, and Stromile Swift to the Blazers

I don't like Stoudamire's contract, but he makes about the same per season as do Williams and Dickerson combined, and those two guys need to GO! Besides, Stoudamire's contract is up after three years, while Williams' and Dickerson's contracts last for another four years. After three years, Stoudamire comes off the books--it'll take that long for the Grizz to put a winner out there on the court. BESIDES, nobody is going to beat the Lakers-Kings-Mavs-Spurs anytime over the next 2-3 years, ANYWAY. There's no reason to get good NOW--you should let those teams age a bit, THEN get good--of course, this is a RATIONALIZATION!

Here's what the Grizz would look like after that Bonzi trade:

PG Damon Stoudamire--Earl Watson
SG Bonzi Wells--Wesley Person--Gordon Giricek
SF Shane Battier--Drew Gooden
PF Pau Gasol--Chris Owens
C Lorenzen Wright--Vladimir Stepania--Tony Massenburg--Robert Archibald--Polish dude

I think Bonzi-Gasol is a nice 1-2 punch, actually. I think the supporting cast has potential. And don't forget the Grizz will be getting the Rockets' #1 next year (in the Steve Francis trade) and will be losing their own #1 (in the terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE Otis Thorpe trade--GOD, every single former GM for the Grizz should be SHOT!). And the Rockets will be a MAJOR disappointment next season--so expect that #1 pick to be right around #7-#9 overall--there will be several nice PGs next year (supposedly), and since big guys ALWAYS go in the first 5-6 picks, the Grizz should be able to get one of these PGs. The kid from Texas is the real deal--a little short, but incredibly quick!

 

[w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y]

UGHH!

DONT LIKE IT A BIT.....Like you said yourself we need to be good in a couple of years not now...so why trade JWill,Stro,MikeD, and the others you mentioned for an aging Damon although Bonzi is good but not good enough for all of those guys...

 

[robyg1974]

Originally posted by w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y
DONT LIKE IT A BIT.....Like you said yourself we need to be good in a couple of years not now...so why trade JWill,Stro,MikeD, and the others you mentioned for an aging Damon although Bonzi is good but not good enough for all of those guys...

Because...

a) Jerry West doesn't like Stromile Swift's chances of turning into a good NBA player (I don't either, but I'm not the GM);

b) Michael Dickerson is one of those guys who puts up good scoring numbers for really bad teams, a la Clarence Weatherspoon, Orlando Woolridge, Armon Gilliam, Reggie Theus (the list goes on and on and on), PLUS he can't even stay healthy;

c) Jason Williams is STILL an intriguing player, but how will Grizz fans EVER get over the fact that he was traded for Mike Bibby STRAIGHT UP (one of the dumbest trades I had ever seen at the time it was made, and it seems even dumber now), so, if the dude ever turns into a solid starting NBA point guard (which he currently isn't, and let's face it, the dude will never be a STAR), it probably won't be (and SHOULDN'T be) with Memphis.

Meanwhile, Bonzi Wells looks like he's ready to "break out" to me, and he can probably be signed to a totally reasonable longterm extension (starting at, say, $7 mil/yr) in this summer's economic climate. And when Stoudamire's contract comes off the books in the summer of 2005, hopefully the Grizz will be a playoff team. Again, Stoudamire's contract expires one season before the contracts of Williams and Dickerson--and isn't Stoudamire a slight upgrade over Williams? And how much better is Bonzi Wells than Michael Dickerson? And do you really want Stromile Swift taking minutes away from one of their three nice young forwards (Pau Gasol, Shane Battier, and Drew Gooden)?

And I've included Brevin Knight in the deal (two more years at over $5 mil/yr) to make it work under the cap--now THERE'S a nice salary to get rid of! Who gave this dude all that money? And why? Does anybody know? Does HE know?

 

[w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y]

OK----MikeD hasn't played one full healthy season and has avg approx 15pts over his career. Now to say that he has scored alot of points on a bad team is correct but unfair. Think Bibby, Rahim and MikeD and he still avg 15 a game. Now if you think scoring on a bad team doesn't mean your not good then tell McDyess that he's bad becuase he avg good numbers in Denver and they are horrible. Cleveland is the ones who signed Brevin to that large contract but tell me who else last year avg 5asts off the bench. And Damon might avg more points now but in 3 or 4 years he won't avg much of anything becuase he start to get a little older and begin to lose a step or two. Bonzi might be worth 7 mil a year but that should not increase over the next few years becuase he just not that good. If he's that good then how come he's not starting over derek Anderson. Bonzi is very inconsistent to say the least! Stro should be traded and hopefully we'll get a good trade for him of a good pick in the next 2 to 3yrs. Becuase with JWest at the helm we would turn that pick into something worth while. Trybanski I'm tellin you is gonna be good and he'll be our starter in 2 or 3 years.

 

[robyg1974]

Originally posted by w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y
OK----MikeD hasn't played one full healthy season and has avg approx 15pts over his career. Now to say that he has scored alot of points on a bad team is correct but unfair. Think Bibby, Rahim and MikeD and he still avg 15 a game. Now if you think scoring on a bad team doesn't mean your not good then tell McDyess that he's bad becuase he avg good numbers in Denver and they are horrible. Cleveland is the ones who signed Brevin to that large contract but tell me who else last year avg 5asts off the bench. And Damon might avg more points now but in 3 or 4 years he won't avg much of anything becuase he start to get a little older and begin to lose a step or two. Bonzi might be worth 7 mil a year but that should not increase over the next few years becuase he just not that good. If he's that good then how come he's not starting over derek Anderson. Bonzi is very inconsistent to say the least! Stro should be traded and hopefully we'll get a good trade for him of a good pick in the next 2 to 3yrs. Becuase with JWest at the helm we would turn that pick into something worth while. Trybanski I'm tellin you is gonna be good and he'll be our starter in 2 or 3 years.

DUDE--I don't even know where to start:

1) Some players who put up good stats for lousy teams are, in fact, GOOD PLAYERS. But some aren't. When a guy scores a lot of points with a lousy shooting percentage and does NOTHING ELSE for a bad team, that usually means he's not very good, and that his stats are meaningless. When a guy shoots a great percentage with a lot of rebounds and blocked shots like McDyess did in Denver, it usually means that he IS good. Michael Dickerson is an overpaid mediocrity, PERIOD.

2) Brevin Knight at $5+ mil/yr is a JOKE, how do you not know this? If the Grizz thought he was a good backup, why the hell did Jerry West just sign Earl Watson to an offer sheet?

3) You get no argument from me about Damon Stoudamire, I don't like the dude, but if you're going to dump a bunch of unwanted salaries on Portland, you're going to have to help them out a little bit.

4) Trybanski the starter in 2 or 3 years? If you're a Grizzlies fan, you better hope not! And what in the world do you know about Trybanski? Have you seen the dude play? NO. So why would you say that he's going to be a starting center in the NBA? What?

 

[Potatoe]

Originally posted by robyg1974


DUDE--I don't even know where to start:

1) Some players who put up good stats for lousy teams are, in fact, GOOD PLAYERS. But some aren't. When a guy scores a lot of points with a lousy shooting percentage and does NOTHING ELSE for a bad team, that usually means he's not very good, and that his stats are meaningless. When a guy shoots a great percentage with a lot of rebounds and blocked shots like McDyess did in Denver, it usually means that he IS good. Michael Dickerson is an overpaid mediocrity, PERIOD.

I agree with some of your statement but I'm not entirely sure if or how it relates to Dickerson.

I was hearing you on the good player/bad team point but when yo started to say that Dickerson "scores a lot of points with a lousy shooting percentage and does NOTHING ELSE" you lost me.

The last year that Dickerson was healthy he shot high percentages (40% 3-pointFGA) and played excellent defense. He showed lots of offensive versatility and really helped the Grizz in their late season run.

He's not the one dimensional shoot from anywhere player that you described at all.

That said, I still do not believe he will ever be the 19ppg player that he once was simply because the teams over-all talent is much higher now and therefore he will play less, and likely shoot less.

If Mike D can hit from the outside 35 to 40 percent of the time, play good defense, and share the ball, he should get us 10 to 15 points in 30 min per night.

He is not a Star but if healthy he does have the ability to be a very effective starter for this team.

 

[Shadows]

I agree with Potatoe on this.

Alot of people here seem to down play him on this board. I was and still am a big fan of the Grizz. When they played in Canada I had much more confidence about Mike's game the Rahiem, Reeves in the others.

The only thing Dickerson needs to do is be a bit more selfish. We know he will shoot a good %. He will handle his own on D. He just needs to shoot more when the team needs him. Dont get me wrong this kid is clutch he will hit big shots for the Grizz this year no doubt. But I personally want him to break down players 1 on 1.
If he does this him in Gasol working inside and outside will be very hard to stop.

 

[bdachakeya]

robyg1974, you probably wouldn't be saying that the trade of Bibby for JWill was dumbest you've ever seen if Bibby hadn't performed the way he did in the playoffs. I think a lot of people are wagon-riders because we never heard this much hype about Bibby until he displayed those great performances during the playoffs. If Bibby doesn't put up the same numbers next season as he did this past year, I wonder will these same wagon-riders be riding his ship like y'all are starting to do now. I think you are doing as a lot of people are starting to do now, and that's making the call after the fact which is so easy to do. If the Grizzlies trade Swift and he turns out to have a hell of a year, will you be on these boards saying that that had to be the other dumbest trade you've ever seen? Well, if you don't want to make that call now I'll beat you to the punch...... if the Grizzlies do trade Swift I truly think that will be one of the most premature moves the team could have ever made.

 

[w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y]

Actually I live in Germany and have seen Trybanski play and regardless of what others have said about him riding the bench forever, That aint gonna happen! Maybe this first season but just watch! He is like 7'2 and if we gains weight, gets quicker and works on his footing he'll be GOOD! But don't take my word for it just look at who signed him. Not Denver but the GRIZZ and none other than Jerry West himself. So if your telling me that Jerry does know talent when he sees it then you totally crazy!!! And I like the last post by bdayckeka(my bad on the spelling) but he's right if Bibby averages mediocre numbers again and with a healthy Peja next year for the playoffs I bet he won't avg. nearly the numbers he did this year....

 

[robyg1974]

Originally posted by bdachakeya
robyg1974, you probably wouldn't be saying that the trade of Bibby for JWill was dumbest you've ever seen if Bibby hadn't performed the way he did in the playoffs. I think a lot of people are wagon-riders because we never heard this much hype about Bibby until he displayed those great performances during the playoffs. If Bibby doesn't put up the same numbers next season as he did this past year, I wonder will these same wagon-riders be riding his ship like y'all are starting to do now. I think you are doing as a lot of people are starting to do now, and that's making the call after the fact which is so easy to do. If the Grizzlies trade Swift and he turns out to have a hell of a year, will you be on these boards saying that that had to be the other dumbest trade you've ever seen? Well, if you don't want to make that call now I'll beat you to the punch...... if the Grizzlies do trade Swift I truly think that will be one of the most premature moves the team could have ever made.

ACTUALLY, the day that deal was made, I laughed out loud. I thought it was one of the DUMBEST trades I've ever seen from DAY ONE. And I assumed that most basketball fans out there had the same response that I did. SOME trades, you look at, they seem ridiculous in hindsight--but, at the time they were made, they made SENSE. The Bibby-Williams trade NEVER made sense--Bibby was NOT a free agent, he was still under contract for another full season, the Grizz could've let him play for another season (which would have obviously been this PAST season), and THEN, he would STILL be a RESTRICTED free agent, so the Grizz would be able to match any offer. IF they didn't want to give him whatever he would have been asking for, they could have THEN traded him for something MUCH BETTER than JASON WILLIAMS!

The Cavs just got totally ripped off in this Darius Miles trade--but at LEAST Miles MIGHT turn into a STAR! He probably won't, but he MIGHT! Who would you rather have, Darius Miles or Jason Williams? HELL, who would you rather have, HEDO TURKOGLU or Jason Williams?

BOTTOM LINE: The trade was terrible, the trade is terrible, the trade will always be terrible. And, as for Mike Bibby's playoff performance against the Lakers--are you saying that it DIDN'T HAPPEN? I sat there and watched the dude, he looked like Isiah Thomas, Chris Webber was out there SCARED TO DEATH (as usual), Peja Stojakovic was worthless (because of his injury), Doug Christie couldn't even hit the damn rim, and Mike Bibby PUT THAT KINGS TEAM ON HIS BACK AND THEY DAMNED NEAR BEAT THE LAKERS! Are you saying that there was something wrong with my TV, that that didn't REALLY HAPPEN? Meanwhile, LAST SEASON vs. the Lakers in the playoffs, where was Jason Williams in the second half? ON THE BENCH. Because he sucks. He's flashy, it's totally cool to watch that behind-the-back $hit, but when it comes to playing POINT GUARD in the NATIONAL BASKETBALL ASSOCIATION, the guy sucks.

And Stromile Swift ALSO SUCKS. If he DIDN'T SUCK, why would Jerry West, the greatest evaluator of basketball talent in the WORLD, be trying to trade him? Stromile Swift's stock is never going to be any higher than it is right now--it was obviously a LOT higher a couple of years ago, it has been declining pretty rapidly ever since, and that decline will continue next season. If the Grizz want to get something in return for that dude, they need to do it pretty soon!

 

[bdachakeya]

Roby G., it's obvious you're not a fan of JWill because what does D. Miles and Hedo has to do with the conversation. But to answer your question of who I rather have, I'd still say JWill because neither of those guys would be able to run the point which is what we'd need if we traded him away for either of the two. And if you would have read correctly, you would have understood that I didn't question Bibby's performance in the conference finals against the Lakers, because I clearly stated that a lot of people were starting to jump on his wagon because of the great performances he displayed in those games. I, myself, applauded his efforts in those games with the Lakers because I, too, thought that he carried those weak a$$ teammates of his on his shoulders. But after all of that, that still didn't cause me to come out of the closet and start pretending like I was some kind of genius who knew from the start that the trade was not a good one. I agree, I don't care for all of the behind-the-back passes JWill always seem to do at the wrong time, but I still think he's just as effective as any other point when he's playing focused basketball. Even as great as they were, players like Magic and Isiah made stupid passes and bad decisions at some point in a game.

And also, I'm behind West for some of the moves he's making, but I do realize that he's human and he's capable of miscalculating on some of his evaluations. So, unlike you, I never have and never will be that person who suffers from the syndrome of: "because Jerry said so".

 

[Potatoe]

Originally posted by robyg1974


ACTUALLY, the day that deal was made, I laughed out loud. I thought it was one of the DUMBEST trades I've ever seen from DAY ONE. And I assumed that most basketball fans out there had the same response that I did. SOME trades, you look at, they seem ridiculous in hindsight--but, at the time they were made, they made SENSE. The Bibby-Williams trade NEVER made sense--Bibby was NOT a free agent, he was still under contract for another full season, the Grizz could've let him play for another season (which would have obviously been this PAST season), and THEN, he would STILL be a RESTRICTED free agent, so the Grizz would be able to match any offer. IF they didn't want to give him whatever he would have been asking for, they could have THEN traded him for something MUCH BETTER than JASON WILLIAMS!

The Cavs just got totally ripped off in this Darius Miles trade--but at LEAST Miles MIGHT turn into a STAR! He probably won't, but he MIGHT! Who would you rather have, Darius Miles or Jason Williams? HELL, who would you rather have, HEDO TURKOGLU or Jason Williams?

BOTTOM LINE: The trade was terrible, the trade is terrible, the trade will always be terrible. And, as for Mike Bibby's playoff performance against the Lakers--are you saying that it DIDN'T HAPPEN? I sat there and watched the dude, he looked like Isiah Thomas, Chris Webber was out there SCARED TO DEATH (as usual), Peja Stojakovic was worthless (because of his injury), Doug Christie couldn't even hit the damn rim, and Mike Bibby PUT THAT KINGS TEAM ON HIS BACK AND THEY DAMNED NEAR BEAT THE LAKERS! Are you saying that there was something wrong with my TV, that that didn't REALLY HAPPEN? Meanwhile, LAST SEASON vs. the Lakers in the playoffs, where was Jason Williams in the second half? ON THE BENCH. Because he sucks. He's flashy, it's totally cool to watch that behind-the-back $hit, but when it comes to playing POINT GUARD in the NATIONAL BASKETBALL ASSOCIATION, the guy sucks.

And Stromile Swift ALSO SUCKS. If he DIDN'T SUCK, why would Jerry West, the greatest evaluator of basketball talent in the WORLD, be trying to trade him? Stromile Swift's stock is never going to be any higher than it is right now--it was obviously a LOT higher a couple of years ago, it has been declining pretty rapidly ever since, and that decline will continue next season. If the Grizz want to get something in return for that dude, they need to do it pretty soon!

I hate to say it but I can't disagree,,,

The trade did suck and Stro's stock is declining....

Boo,,,,,

(smile)

 

[John Boy]

Where do you get the idea that Stromile Swift's stock is falling?

The guy is 22 years of age. He was selected #2 overall in the 2000 NBA draft.

He has only been in the league for 2 years.

The first year, Sidney Lowe hardly played him choosing instead to go for wins with his vets.

His stats in his first year were:
4.9 points per game and 3.60 rebounds per game based on 16.4 minutes of playing time per game.

He just finished his 2nd year. Coming off the bench behind Pau Gasol, he managed to up his stats to 11.8 points per game and 6.3 rebounds per game based on an average of 26.5 minutes of playing time.

In the last six games of this past season, Stromile averaged more than 16 points a game. In the last game of the season against Seattle, Stromile got 31 points.

These figures look like a significant improvement to me.

Everybody likes Keon Clark. Keon is five years older than Stromile and yet his stats are almost the same. In all Keon's years in the NBA, he has only managed to average 10 or more points per game once.

His stats for his best year are: 11.3 points per game and 7.4 rebounds per game based on 31 minutes of playing time per game.

To me, to trade Stromile now would be very foolish. I think he is only going to get better and I don't want to look over at another team watching Stromile improving his numbers just like I am feeling when I am watching Mike Bibby.

 

[Potatoe]

Originally posted by John Boy
Where do you get the idea that Stromile Swift's stock is falling?

The guy is 22 years of age. He was selected #2 overall in the 2000 NBA draft.

He has only been in the league for 2 years.

The first year, Sidney Lowe hardly played him choosing instead to go for wins with his vets.

His stats in his first year were:
4.9 points per game and 3.60 rebounds per game based on 16.4 minutes of playing time per game.

He just finished his 2nd year. Coming off the bench behind Pau Gasol, he managed to up his stats to 11.8 points per game and 6.3 rebounds per game based on an average of 26.5 minutes of playing time.

In the last six games of this past season, Stromile averaged more than 16 points a game. In the last game of the season against Seattle, Stromile got 31 points.

These figures look like a significant improvement to me.

Everybody likes Keon Clark. Keon is five years older than Stromile and yet his stats are almost the same. In all Keon's years in the NBA, he has only managed to average 10 or more points per game once.

His stats for his best year are: 11.3 points per game and 7.4 rebounds per game based on 31 minutes of playing time per game.

To me, to trade Stromile now would be very foolish. I think he is only going to get better and I don't want to look over at another team watching Stromile improving his numbers just like I am feeling when I am watching Mike Bibby.

Ahhh stats,,,,,,

Oh how I love thee,,,

(smile)

Yes Stro did make a significant "statistical" improvement last season, but there is so much more to this story,,,,

Stro STILL doesn't work very hard, he still doesn't understand the play book, he still doesn't play and defense, and he still sits out every time he gets the slightest bit injured.

West knows that players with these characteristics never become great players on winning teams and that is why he's trying so hard to move him.

Stros stock can only go down as more people start to "wise up" about this player and with Gooden (the "anti-Stro")on the team he will likely get even less PT next year.

Stro is no Mike Bibby.

 

[w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y]

Yo Roby I know your a moderator and all but its nice to see that you guys can also slip. If you came in here to rip the team and its starting PG then its probably best you dont stay. But OK the trade for Bibby and JWIll was dumb but Bibby said he wasn't staying with the Griz anyway. But yeah you might be right about getting something better, but as a young club and JWill is only in his 4th yr he might be something good. And as far as Stro if he could get a good work ethic and learn how to be fundemental and explosive he might be pretty good. If we keep him we have Gasol and Swift at 4 and Battier and Gooden at the 3. JWill is the PG for the Grizz now and will be for the next year or 2 at least....doen subject about the next PG and Bibby only played good in the postseason so if he comes out and plays the same during the regular season then yeah Ok he's good but for now the Bibby subject is a DONE DEAL.