Professional and College Basketball Forums banner

Who has the better team?

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
14,162 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The drafted just ended.

One for one (KAS first, then Lachlan, Dio and myself) the contestants would make a post adressing:
a) The game plan (starting line-up, rotation);
b) The team's strengths;
c) The other team's weaknesses.

Then, fellow posters who had the opportunity to follow (and comment - thanx) the Draft can vote for the better team, and explain why.

Now, without further ado, the teams:

Krstic All Star:


#1: C Wes Unseld;
#2: SF Dominique Wilkins;
#3: PG Tim Hardaway;
#4: PF Dolph Schayes;
#5: SG Alvin Robertson;
#6: C Yao Ming;
#7: SG/SF Michael Cooper;
#8: SG Mitch Richmond;
#9: SF Chris Mullin;
#10: PF Derrick Coleman;
#11: PG Scott Skiles;
#12: C Elmore Smith.

Lachlanwood32:

#1: C Walt Bellamy;
#2: PG Bob Cousy;
#3: SF Adrian Dantley;
#4: SG Allen Iverson;
#5: C Nate Thurmond;
#6: F Billy Cunningham;
#7: C George Mikan;
#8: PF Amare Stoudemire;
#9: SG Alex English;
#10: PG K.C. Jones;
#11: PF/C Jerry Lucas;
#12: SF Bobby Jones.

Diophantos:

#1: SF Bernard King;
#2: C Artis Gilmore;
#3: PG Kevin Johnson;
#4: SG/SF Paul Pierce;
#5: PF Elton Brand;
#6: C Ben Wallace;
#7: PG Nate Archibald;
#8: PF Shawn Kemp;
#9: SF/PF Shawn Marion;
#10: PG Penny Hardaway;
#11: C Robert Parish;
#12: SG George Gervin.

PauloCatarino:

#1: SG Dwyane Wade;
#2: C Dave Cowens;
#3: PG Steve Nash;
#4: C Dikembe Mutombo;
#5: PG Maurice Cheeks;
#6: SF/PF Dirk Nowitszki;
#7: C Bob Lanier;
#8: PF Chris Webber;
#9: SF Dave Debuschere;
#10: SG/SF- Vince Carter;
#11: SG David Thompson;
#12: PF Maurice Lucas.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
14,162 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
KAS just PM'ed me saying he will be gone, for holidays purposes, for a week or so. No ineternet, also.

So, i'll ask Lachaln and Dio to feel free to adress their teams (as will i) till KAS returns.

I would like for all the other posters to refrain from voting till KAS has the chance to explain his reasonings.

Thanx, folks.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,919 Posts
Will have mine up over the next 12 hours latest. Check in between now and then. Thanks PC.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,358 Posts
Okay, Diophantos's rambling monologue about how good his team is...

Roster:
PG: Kevin Johnson / Tiny Archibald
SG: Paul Pierce / Penny Hardaway / George Gervin
SF: Bernard King / Shawn Marion
PF: Elton Brand / Shawn Kemp
C: Artis Gilmore / Ben Wallace / Robert Parish

I'll outline what I feel are the main strengths of my team:
1) Frontcourt speed/athleticism
This one is fairly minor, so I won't talk too much about it. But I'd like to point out that my team's frontcourt speed on both ends of the floor, with guys like Brand, Marion, Kemp, and Wallace, will allow them to take advantage of a lot of fastbreak and offensive rebounding opportunities (much as the Pistons big men do today).

2) Versatility
My team plays any style of ball necessary, and I can field a 5 man unit for basically any pace you wish to play. Want to go small? KJ/Tiny/King/Marion/Wallace or Kemp/ is quicker from endline to endline than basically any other team. Big? Penny/Pierce/Marion/Kemp/Gilmore throws out three 6-7 perimeter players and 2 6-10+ shotblockers. Defense? KJ/Pierce/Marion/Wallace/Gilmore has three shotblockers on the frontline and two long wing defenders in Marion and Pierce. Fastbreak? KJ/Penny/King/Marion/Kemp will run on you all day, and not sacrifice rebounding or interior defense. All of these lineups complement my starters, whose main goal is to score efficiently in the halfcourt.

Which brings me to my next point...

3) Offensive Efficiency
Simple enough--basically all my team's scorers score ultra-efficiently. The average (unweighted) peak TS% of my starting lineup is a ridiculous 61.7%, and I believe, though I have not checked, that this eclipses any of the other teams. Off the bench, not even included in that 61.7% number, my main scorers are Penny (0.605%), Kemp (0.631%), Marion (58.4%), and Gervin (59-60%). For the few misses that do occur, I have some excellent offensive rebounders in Kemp, Marion, Gilmore, and Brand to clean them up.

To expand on my team's offense:
I start one of the most efficient low-post scorers in history in Gilmore, and he is complemented well by Brand's midrange jumper, offensive rebounding, and Brand's own skill in the post. King will have the ball to work in midrange, with Pierce and Penny providing spacing to spread the floor as well as slash off the ball. KJ will run the break and set up the offense to perfection, while also putting high pressure on opposing interior defenses by attacking the rim. This unit defends well and scores ultra-efficiently. The bench then comes in and provides a somewhat different look, allowing for a much more uptempo game. The reserves still defend, and Wallace and Marion will often play with the starters to provide that, but they force more turnovers and allow KJ, Tiny, and Penny to have a field day running the break. In short, they do just what a great bench should do--add energy on both ends and help spark a team out of droughts.

Obviously, an efficient, multifaceted offense is the strength of this team, but it defends as well. Gilmore, Brand, Wallace, and Kemp provide an ultra-quick, intimidating frontline rotation that will challenge every shot going to the rim. Marion is an excellent team defender whose ball-hawking will start fastbreaks, and who can play his man one-on-one as well. Pierce and Penny, especially with less offensive responsibilities, are good defenders who can play both passing lanes and their men. King is not a defensive strength, but he is certainly not a liabillity, and his teammates will cover for him.

So I spent way too long on this post, but the main points are:
1) The other teams can't stop my team from scoring, in a multitude of ways.
2) The other teams should go cry. :)
 

· Registered
Joined
·
9,497 Posts
i'd consider starting either kemp or wallace over brand, simply because i think brand's greatest asset, his post play, gets a bit stiffled with king and gilmore, and wallace and kemp are more off the ball players. and then brand can anchor the 2nd unit in the post.

i'll also be the first to point out your unweighted ts% gives artis a bit too much influence.

would have liked to see a consistent long range shooter somewhere on the roster, and the backcourt is a bit weak defensively.

personally, i think penny was a better peak player than pierce. and is more a true backcourt player, capable of playing either guard spot. pierce shoots the 3 better though (and naturally rebounds better). and again, pierce's inside beatdowns may also be a bit tougher to come buy even with brand out of the starting lineup.

solid overall collection of players.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,358 Posts
kflo said:
i'd consider starting either kemp or wallace over brand, simply because i think brand's greatest asset, his post play, gets a bit stiffled with king and gilmore, and wallace and kemp are more off the ball players. and then brand can anchor the 2nd unit in the post.

i'll also be the first to point out your unweighted ts% gives artis a bit too much influence.

would have liked to see a consistent long range shooter somewhere on the roster, and the backcourt is a bit weak defensively.

personally, i think penny was a better peak player than pierce. and is more a true backcourt player, capable of playing either guard spot. pierce shoots the 3 better though (and naturally rebounds better). and again, pierce's inside beatdowns may also be a bit tougher to come buy even with brand out of the starting lineup.

solid overall collection of players.
Since no one else seems to be posting theirs, I'll go ahead and respond to these, though I don't really disagree with anything you say.

First off, as regards your point about Brand, it's a good one. I'm not attaching too much importance to who's starting: I think Brand/Kemp and Wallace/Gilmore are pairs that work well with each other, and those units will definitely get some burn. But I like Brand/Gilmore starting because Brand is the best midrange shooter of my bigs, and I think that will help open things up for King and Artis.

Same for the Penny/Pierce starting debate. I think bringing Penny off the bench gives me a little more flexibility to adapt to different situations, and Pierce being the more consistent long-range shooter would help King/Gilmore/Brand/KJ a lot. Penny, I feel, would work best with guys like Marion, Kemp, and Wallace off the bench, though again, he'd be getting time with the starters.

Don't attach too much importance to the unweighted TS% stat. It's just a sort of vague qualitative measuring stick for the efficiency of my team. Basically--since about every starting lineup is filled with 18+ ppg scorers--I feel that my team has a natural advantage since it is more efficient from top to bottom. I don't mean to say my team will score at a 60% rate or anything like that (though it's possible :)).

As far as outside shooting is concerned, I feel that, while that hasn't been completely addressed, I have some guys who can spread the defense. Marion could easily shoot 40% from three on this team (he's shot 39% in two different seasons). Pierce has also shot 40% from three in a season; as a third/fourth/fifth scoring option, he should be able to duplicate that. Plus King, Tiny, and Penny are all very good from midrange.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,919 Posts
My Analysis

1 - Bob Cousy / K.C. Jones
2 - Allen Iverson / Alex English
3 - Adrian Dantley / Billy Cunningham / Bobby Jones
4 - Walt Bellamy / Amare Stoudemire / Jerry Lucas
5 - Nate Thurmond / George Mikan

I'd like to start off by saying that with a team like this, it really depends on the other team to pick a line up. For example, if I needed to shut down an opposing player I'd probably start Bobby Jones and relegate Dantley to the bench. This team has no problem scoring, and with my last few picks I believe I addressed defense. I don't expect many to know K.C. Jones or Bobby Jones too well, but in my post I'll explain why I chose them with better "names" still on the board.

Main Strengths

1. Successful Players
The majority of my players were leaders, mvps or key parts on teams that won championship. I thought that this was one of the most important traits that my team needed to have. Having Cousy as my leader gives me a significant advantage though, as no other player in the draft had the experience nor success that Cousy had with the Celtics.

2. Defense
After a few rounds into the draft, my team was looking dangerous on offense but couldn't guard their own shadows. Cousy, Iverson and Dantley would give opponents a headache on the defensive end, but wouldn't be able to match up defensively. This is why I drafted the two best defensive non-centers ever in K.C. Jones and Bobby Jones (yes, better than Moncrief, Cooper and others). K.C. Jones was the stopper for the succcessful Celtics of the 60's. The best defensive guard ever. He won 8 championships with the Celtics, even after Cousy left and he took over the reigns. Jones was a dud on offense, he only averaged 7.4ppg over his career. He could distribute the ball though, run an offense and play fantastic defense. How else would such a dud on the offensive end get recognized by the Hall of Fame? Jones can stop any of the backcourt offensive options on other teams effectively, I'm confident in boasting that. He consistantly put the shackles on Robertson and West year after year, which was part of the reason the Celtics were so successful.

My other defensive weapons are Bobby Jones, another case for best defensive player ever. He has the accolades to boot. Bobby Jones is probably the biggest weapon on my team because of his versatility on defense. Bobby Jones also didn't need the ball in his hands, he was a great athlete who could score, but it wasn't his role. On my team, he'd be one of the glue guys. I drafted him primarily because of his defense, his high percentages on offense (shot 55.8%) and his energy.

Nate Thurmond, Walt Bellamy and Jerry Lucas were all good defenders in the post. To make sure I don't bore anyone out, I won't go into detail about each of them. With Thurmond and Bellamy starting my defense downlow will be outstanding, and keeping the opposition off the glass won't be a problem at all.

Blocks are easily taken care of by Thurmond, Bobby Jones, Bellamy and Mikan. While steals are taken care of by Iverson, Cousy, K.C. and Cunningham.

I have no worries about my team on the defensive end, with a great defender able to play every position on the court I will be able to insert them into the line up to primarily just shut down the star on the other team.

3. Backcourt

Some might see it as a weakness starting two small guards in the backcourt, especially Iverson and Cousy, but I think it'll cause huge mismatches. Both were/are extremely passionate players, so I don't see how they wouldn't succeed. Iverson obviously won't be dominating the ball nearly as much as he does now, but I don't think that'd be a problem. He has shown often that he is willing to be a team player on teams with more talent (ASG's and the Olympics) and even be a distributor. With both of my guards averaging over 7apg I don't think ball movement will be a problem. Neither will need to dominate the ball as much, so the duties can be shared. Also both are extremely fast, so fast breaks with Dantley/Amare/Thurmond should be awesome. All were athletic. Also, if defense becomes a problem K.C. Jones will be able to fill in and guard either the 1 or 2 as he did in his prime.

With the offensive power of English off the bench, the backcourt will be the primary scorers on my team. I expect to see ball movement though, and I believe they're capable of it.

3. Efficiency

Adrian Dantley is probably the definition of offensive efficiency. His career FG% of 54% is outstanding for a wing player. Alex English also shot 50% from the field over his career. While Iverson and Cousy were not as efficient, they will be taking less shots on this team, hopefully meaning that the shots they do take will improve their shot selection.

Also, Jerry Lucas and Billy Cunningham were extremely efficient guys who will do the dirty work on my team. Every team needs players who are willing to sacrifice their bodies to get the ball. As I mentioned earlier, Dave DeBusschere's quote described Lucas to a tee, "He gets the big rebound, makes the big play on defense, makes the tap shot when you need a basket the most." Lucas also had a PER of 28 for his career. Pretty outstanding. Cunningham was an athletic gym rate who was one of the fiercest competitors in the game. That's the type of player that I wanted coming off the bench, also he had a great outside jumpshot which did wonders for Chamberlain on the Sixers, and could open up the middle similarly for Bellamy and Stoudemire.

On a side note, Bellamy had a PER of a whooping 37.

4. Scoring

Possibly my teams strongest point. Iverson, Dantley, English and Stoudemire are 4 of the best scorers in the challenge. Dantley is possibly the most underrated scorer in the game, given his %'s and his ppg. Bellamy and Cousy could also score easily. My team really has great scorers at every position. Mikan was the most dominant scorer of his generation, and although his percentages are low you have to take into count his generation. He was dominant and had good percentages for his time, which was part of the reason behind me drafting him.

Three point shooting could be a problem, but with most of my players being apart of generations which either did not have a 3 point line or did not see the significance of the 3 in the offensive system it doesn't worry me too much. Dantley, English, Cousy and Cunningham can all hit the outside jumper which will stretch the defense. Stretching the defense is somewhat overrated though, as the players in this challenge are able to score in a variety of ways.

I expect my team to be shooting a lot of free throws too, and attacking the basket with Iverson, Stoudemire, Thurmond, Cousy and Dantley.

5. Rebounding

With Bellamy and Thurmond I have two of the greatest rebounders of all time. Lucas was also an amazing rebounder, who will be able to fill in for Thurmond and Bellamy. I'll let Stoudemire keep focusing purely on offense, as he does with the Suns now. Stoudemire and Mikan will not be asked to focus as much on rebounding with Bellamy and Thurmond on the team, making them specialists for the offensive end. Again, I'd consider my team one of the better rebounding teams, especially for defensive rebounding. This is important for my team as it's fundamental to start the fast break through Iverson, Cousy, Dantley and English. With great rebounders they'll be able to move down the court faster, and the outlet passes will be thrown quicker too.

That's basically my "summary." Sorry it's a bit long (due to so many strengths), for those of you still awake. Hoping some can see the potential I see in the team. Some of the other teams have better known players, or players from 1-12 who could score, but few in this challenge have fantastic defense and the "glue guys" that really help a team win. When most players can score, I believe it's the little things that could seperate one team from the others.

If anyone's interested in reading more about these or other players check out some of the websites out there. Here's the three best for past players.

http://www.nba.com/history/players/index.html
http://www.basketballreference.com/
http://www.basketball-reference.com/

I will leave the other teams weaknesses till PC and KAS have done their analysis. If anyone's got any questions, or wants to point out strengths/weaknesses about my team I'll be more than happy to argue/defend/hopefully enlighten you about my team. :biggrin:
 

· Registered
Joined
·
9,497 Posts
jerry west was a dominant finals performer. hard to argue kc was putting shackles on him (and there's no way i'm taking him over cooper or moncrief, and that's no knock on kc).

i also don't see any true 2 guard on your team, as iverson is a small guard, and english mostly played the 3.

consistent outside shooting is therefore an issue.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
5,781 Posts
I like Diophantos' team a lot. Brand, Kemp and Marion can all score without having to demand the ball a lot, which I think is fairly important in these things.
But KJ was a poor defender. Penny was ordinary. And Pierce may have a little bit of a problem guarding shooting guards. I don't really know about Archibald and Gervin, but I don't think they're noted for their defense, either.
And I don't like the Ben Wallace selection. Aside from rebounding, he's worthless on offense. You'll be losing out when he's on.

But unless Paulo or Krstic All Star can pull out some great reasoning and strategy, I'm going with your team, Diophantos.

(Lachlan's... well, who's seen Walt Bellamy and George Mikan play? ;))
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,919 Posts
kflo said:
jerry west was a dominant finals performer. hard to argue kc was putting shackles on him (and there's no way i'm taking him over cooper or moncrief, and that's no knock on kc).

i also don't see any true 2 guard on your team, as iverson is a small guard, and english mostly played the 3.

consistent outside shooting is therefore an issue.
As stated in his piece on nba.com's history page, "Most importantly, his defense regularly shackled stars such as the Los Angeles Lakers' Jerry West and the Cincinnati Royals' Oscar Robertson. Jones would have been a shoo-in for the NBA All-Defensive Team, but the award didn't come into existence until the 1968-69 season, two years after Jones had retired."

West did have fantastic playoff runs, especially when the Lakers would meet the Celtics. However I think they were talking about overall, Jones' ability to defend the great guards.

Yeah, the 2 spot was a problem but I see no problem playing Iverson there. I was debating whether to move English or Dantley to the 2, as both could play it. However English made the most sense as his game seemed to better fit the role. I would have drafted a 2, but I thought that the level of talent was lacking after Richmond was taken.

As for outside shooting, another problem but I covered it a little with an explanation in my previous post. I don't think it's so much outside shooting as it is 3's. English could shoot to about 20 or so, which should be able to spread the defense. My team won't be much of a jump shooting team though, they'll either pound it inside or use the quick guard tandem to work the ball in. In the old days the outside shot wasn't nearly as important, so I was basing my team more off of that model. If my team can work high percentage shots through Dantley, Stoudemire, English and Bellamy then it could be more effective.

Although none of the players are 3 point specialists, they're decent enough to keep the defense honest. They know how to score, as they were all extremely gifted scorers during their time. Seeing as teams won't be able to double or triple team as much due to the talent of all the starting 5, I didn't think that outside shooting was as necessary as good scorers. For example, the Spurs have a ton of shooters because Duncan will often see double or triple teams, which will lead to him kicking it to Bowen, Barry or whoever for the 3 ball. On these teams, if you double team the other 4 guys are superstar scorers too, so their is little point in leaving one unmarked.

Thanks for the feedback kflo.

PC, KAS and Dio. I'll be away for a week starting tomorrow, taking a vacation. Probably won't be able to check in much because I'll be in the middle of no where with no computers.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
Hakeem said:
I like Diophantos' team a lot. Brand, Kemp and Marion can all score without having to demand the ball a lot, which I think is fairly important in these things.
But KJ was a poor defender. Penny was ordinary. And Pierce may have a little bit of a problem guarding shooting guards. I don't really know about Archibald and Gervin, but I don't think they're noted for their defense, either.
And I don't like the Ben Wallace selection. Aside from rebounding, he's worthless on offense. You'll be losing out when he's on.

But unless Paulo or Krstic All Star can pull out some great reasoning and strategy, I'm going with your team, Diophantos.

(Lachlan's... well, who's seen Walt Bellamy and George Mikan play? ;))
I was under the impression that Penny and Pierce were above average defenders due to their length.

And I like the Ben Wallace selection. I mean in these challenges you have so many people who can score on the court. You dont necessarily need 5 of them instead of 4. And his offensive rebounds, good passing for a big man (look at the assist ratio), and reasonably low turnover ratio, make him have some worth on the offensive end.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,122 Posts
Lachlanwood32, could you briefly explain how your team would play half court against Diophantos' team, especially with the Penny/Pierce/Marion/Kemp/Gilmore line up.

I'm also having a hard time with Mikan at 5. His era was so different that I can't imagine how he'd play outside his era. Not that I've ever seen him play anyways.

PC's team looks like it could be an offensive powerhouse. Can't wait to hear what he says.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
14,162 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
My turn:

Overview / Things I’d like to say up front:

- I’ve got two NBA MVP winners in the team: Nash and Cowens;
- I’ve got All-defense players at all positions: Cheeks, Wade, Dave, Lucas, Cowens, Lucas and Mutombo. Some of them were perenniall All-D players, and a DPOY in Mutombo.
- This team is filled with team-first guys who will leave it all out there, with the probable exceptions being Carter and Webber. AND guys who have showed could coexist with bigger names on the team;
-Championship and big-game experience in Cowens, Cheeks, Dave and Lucas;
- Only 2 players are offensive-challenged: Cheeks and Mutombo. Not that they couldn’t score, but they weren’t volume scorers;

Now, my reasonings and probable rotation:

I didn’t pick this team to play in the regular season. I tried to form a team who could win a championship playing against my Challenge opponents’ teams. So, my first concern was defense.
And defense is what I believe separates this team from the others.

I made myself a priority to acquire Mutombo. I know people think he should have been taken later, and that people will think he won’t be able to score on other teams’ centers. But who’s gonna score on him? With the probable exception of Turmond (not IMHO), Mutombo is the best post defender in the entire draft. Nor Jerry Lucas nor Nate Thurmond will get 20rpg playing against him. No Center will drop 40 on him. I believe he is the most important player in my team.
If I want to shut down the paint, I can go with a Cowens/Mutombo/Lucas PF/C rotation. No other team, IMHO, has that kind of imposing defensive frontline. Cowens and Lucas did average seasons of 20ppg, so it’s not like I’m crippling post offense with those guys on the floor. And guys like Steve Nash and Wade are bound to find Mutombo in scoring positions on their attacks of the rim.

My probable starting 5 would be Nash, Wade, Dirk, Cowens and Mutombo.

Nash can be arued as the best PG in the draft, IMHO. He is a great passer, decision-maker and overall floor general. He will run the offense to a T.
Wade is a good perimeter defender, and although Nash and Dirk are, at best, average (I said AT BEST, dammit! ;) ), their defensive jobs will be easier if the paint is closed (and with Cowens and Mutombo, you don’t get any better), for they can gamble for steals and play their men closer.
Dirk’s ability to light it up from all over the court is unvaluable, for he will shoot over any other SF in the draft and is too quick (relatively speaking) to be guarded by the other teams’ PF.
Wade and Dirk will take care of the majority of the scoring load in my starting unit, with Nash keepind the post players happy.
I’ve already address my frontcourt of Cowens and Mutombo. Defense, rebounding and hustle. Cowens offensive game (wich is not bad at all) will only improve playing with Nash (I don’t think Cowens played with ant great PG in his peak).

Depending on the opposing team, I could go with Nash/Dwade/Carter/Webber/Cowens if I wanted to run more, or Thompson instead of Wade if I wanted to go offensive-crazy.

Bench:

Cheeks: Championship winner. Perennial All-D. A steady hand on offense and a pest on defense.
Carter. We all remember the prime Carter (and he is showing frequent flashes of it this season): unstoppable on offense, great slasher, above-the-rim play.
Dave Debuschere: The consummate teamplayer. Hard-nosed, rugged, versatily defender who used to score plenty and rebound even more playing in a stacked Knicks team.
Chris Webber: a player posters were comparing, in his prime self, to Kevin Garnett. Great scorer. Good rebounder. Great passer.
Bob Lanier: Clockwork game: 20+/10+ for severall years. Imposing physical presence. Good scorer and rebounder.
David Thompson: I’ll just quote this:
When Thompson was on, perhaps only Julius Erving was a more explosive player. With a 44-inch vertical leap and laser-quick moves, "the Skywalker" was one of the most exciting and acrobatic players the league has ever seen. Like "Dr. J," Thompson could score from anywhere on the court-and within the blink of an eye. But it was his ability to soar and hang in the air that awed people and dogged opponents the most. The story goes that while Thompson was playing at North Carolina State, he could snag a quarter off the top of the backboard. If anybody could do it, Thompson could.
Maurice Lucas: the gem. One of the most feared players ever. Ron Artest-like hostility. Great heart and hustle. Knees, elbows and fists ready to spring into action. Bill Walton’s bodyguard on the championship Blazers.

Peak (arguable) stats:

Steve Nash: current – 19.1ppg – 4.2rpg - 10.5apg
Dwyane Wade: current – 27.5ppg – 5.8rpg – 6.8apg;
Dirk Nowitzki: current – 26.5ppg – 9rpg – 2.5apg;
Dave Cowens: 1973 – 19.7ppg – 15.5rpg – 3.9apg (MVP)
Dikembe Mutombo: 2000 – 12.6ppg – 15.5rpg – 1.4apg – 3.6bpg;
Maurice Cheeks: 1986 – 15.4ppg – 2.9rpg – 9.2apg – 2.5spg;
Vince Carter: 2001 – 27.6ppg – 5.5rpg – 3.9apg – 1.5apg;
Dave Debushere:1969 – 18.2ppg – 11.8 – 2.8apg;
Chris Webber: 2001 – 27.1ppg – 11.1rpg – 4.2apg;
Bob Lanier: 1972 – 25.7ppg – 14.2rpg – 3.1apg;
David Thompson: 1978 – 27.2ppg – 4.9rpg – 4.5apg;
Maurice Lucas: 1978 – 21ppg – 11.7rpg – 3.3apg.

Tell me what you think.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,919 Posts
universal! said:
Lachlanwood32, could you briefly explain how your team would play half court against Diophantos' team, especially with the Penny/Pierce/Marion/Kemp/Gilmore line up.

I'm also having a hard time with Mikan at 5. His era was so different that I can't imagine how he'd play outside his era. Not that I've ever seen him play anyways.

PC's team looks like it could be an offensive powerhouse. Can't wait to hear what he says.
Good question. I'd probably run a line up of Cousy/Iverson/Dantley/Bellamy/Thurmond still. I was thinking about sliding Bobby Jones in at the 3 to start as my defensive stopper, but Dantley is too much of a juggernaut on offense. Marion would have a very hard time containing Dantley. Also Dantley was a much better half court player than Bobby Jones on the offensive end.

They way I see it is, no matter who I start in the backcourt my team will have mismatches, both on the defensive end and the offensive end. But by starting Iverson and Cousy together there is zero chance that a Pierce/Hardaway backcourt would be able to stay infront of them. Pierce and Hardaway would have to exert so much energy guarding my quick backcourt, and frankly I don't think it would be possible.

However, Pierce particularly will be a hard match on the defensive end. I'd actually consider moving Dantley to guard Pierce, as Penny and Marion don't have the back to the basket game of Pierce. My team will have to use double teams and the quick hands of Iverson and Cousy to keep the bigger guards honest. It'll definitely be a hard task, but the mismatches work both ways.

Frankly, I'd rather have the two extremely fast guys, because it will be easy for Penny and Pierce to be beaten on the penetration, causing their big men to come over and either foul or give up an easy basket inside. Obviously my teams game plan isn't the long bomb in the half court set, it's the inside penetration.

Had to pick Mikan if Dolph Schayes was gone! Mikan was talented, in an era when the NBA was young and everyone was still figuring it all out. The pick was out of respect to the first great player as much as it was about a reserve. These teams are so deep that Mikan could play 0 minutes. How many teams use 12 players in a game? It upsets the chemistry.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,481 Posts
Hakeem said:
And I don't like the Ben Wallace selection. Aside from rebounding, he's worthless on offense. You'll be losing out when he's on.
I like the Wallace selection. He's a big difference maker on the defensive end, and the Pistons have had plenty of success even though he's an offensive liability. Diophantos' team has more firepower than the Pistons and will run a lot, which will get reduce Wallace's negatives and give him more points off dunks.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
5,781 Posts
Wallace would be great to have on any regular NBA team. But there are so many good players here. You'd suffer such a drop-off offensively when he steps on the court. 4 on 5, pretty much. Even on his 5-10 ppg he's horribly inefficient.

lessthanjake said:
I was under the impression that Penny and Pierce were above average defenders due to their length.
Pierce is a good defender, but I don't think he's suited to guarding shooting guards.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
9,497 Posts
PauloCatarino said:
My turn:

Overview / Things I’d like to say up front:

- I’ve got two NBA MVP winners in the team: Nash and Cowens;
- I’ve got All-defense players at all positions: Cheeks, Wade, Dave, Lucas, Cowens, Lucas and Mutombo. Some of them were perenniall All-D players, and a DPOY in Mutombo.
- This team is filled with team-first guys who will leave it all out there, with the probable exceptions being Carter and Webber. AND guys who have showed could coexist with bigger names on the team;
-Championship and big-game experience in Cowens, Cheeks, Dave and Lucas;
- Only 2 players are offensive-challenged: Cheeks and Mutombo. Not that they couldn’t score, but they weren’t volume scorers;

Now, my reasonings and probable rotation:

I didn’t pick this team to play in the regular season. I tried to form a team who could win a championship playing against my Challenge opponents’ teams. So, my first concern was defense.
And defense is what I believe separates this team from the others.

I made myself a priority to acquire Mutombo. I know people think he should have been taken later, and that people will think he won’t be able to score on other teams’ centers. But who’s gonna score on him? With the probable exception of Turmond (not IMHO), Mutombo is the best post defender in the entire draft. Nor Jerry Lucas nor Nate Thurmond will get 20rpg playing against him. No Center will drop 40 on him. I believe he is the most important player in my team.
If I want to shut down the paint, I can go with a Cowens/Mutombo/Lucas PF/C rotation. No other team, IMHO, has that kind of imposing defensive frontline. Cowens and Lucas did average seasons of 20ppg, so it’s not like I’m crippling post offense with those guys on the floor. And guys like Steve Nash and Wade are bound to find Mutombo in scoring positions on their attacks of the rim.

My probable starting 5 would be Nash, Wade, Dirk, Cowens and Mutombo.

Nash can be arued as the best PG in the draft, IMHO. He is a great passer, decision-maker and overall floor general. He will run the offense to a T.
Wade is a good perimeter defender, and although Nash and Dirk are, at best, average (I said AT BEST, dammit! ;) ), their defensive jobs will be easier if the paint is closed (and with Cowens and Mutombo, you don’t get any better), for they can gamble for steals and play their men closer.
Dirk’s ability to light it up from all over the court is unvaluable, for he will shoot over any other SF in the draft and is too quick (relatively speaking) to be guarded by the other teams’ PF.
Wade and Dirk will take care of the majority of the scoring load in my starting unit, with Nash keepind the post players happy.
I’ve already address my frontcourt of Cowens and Mutombo. Defense, rebounding and hustle. Cowens offensive game (wich is not bad at all) will only improve playing with Nash (I don’t think Cowens played with ant great PG in his peak).

Depending on the opposing team, I could go with Nash/Dwade/Carter/Webber/Cowens if I wanted to run more, or Thompson instead of Wade if I wanted to go offensive-crazy.

Bench:

Cheeks: Championship winner. Perennial All-D. A steady hand on offense and a pest on defense.
Carter. We all remember the prime Carter (and he is showing frequent flashes of it this season): unstoppable on offense, great slasher, above-the-rim play.
Dave Debuschere: The consummate teamplayer. Hard-nosed, rugged, versatily defender who used to score plenty and rebound even more playing in a stacked Knicks team.
Chris Webber: a player posters were comparing, in his prime self, to Kevin Garnett. Great scorer. Good rebounder. Great passer.
Bob Lanier: Clockwork game: 20+/10+ for severall years. Imposing physical presence. Good scorer and rebounder.
David Thompson: I’ll just quote this:

Maurice Lucas: the gem. One of the most feared players ever. Ron Artest-like hostility. Great heart and hustle. Knees, elbows and fists ready to spring into action. Bill Walton’s bodyguard on the championship Blazers.

Peak (arguable) stats:

Steve Nash: current – 19.1ppg – 4.2rpg - 10.5apg
Dwyane Wade: current – 27.5ppg – 5.8rpg – 6.8apg;
Dirk Nowitzki: current – 26.5ppg – 9rpg – 2.5apg;
Dave Cowens: 1973 – 19.7ppg – 15.5rpg – 3.9apg (MVP)
Dikembe Mutombo: 2000 – 12.6ppg – 15.5rpg – 1.4apg – 3.6bpg;
Maurice Cheeks: 1986 – 15.4ppg – 2.9rpg – 9.2apg – 2.5spg;
Vince Carter: 2001 – 27.6ppg – 5.5rpg – 3.9apg – 1.5apg;
Dave Debushere:1969 – 18.2ppg – 11.8 – 2.8apg;
Chris Webber: 2001 – 27.1ppg – 11.1rpg – 4.2apg;
Bob Lanier: 1972 – 25.7ppg – 14.2rpg – 3.1apg;
David Thompson: 1978 – 27.2ppg – 4.9rpg – 4.5apg;
Maurice Lucas: 1978 – 21ppg – 11.7rpg – 3.3apg.

Tell me what you think.
only real weakness is post scoring. and defense at the 3.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top