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"Meow."
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Discussion Starter #1
While it appears that everyone, inlcuding JWILL, is convinced that the Dukie will be our choice with the second pick, I wanted to provide this thread so all of us who would rather take Wagner could sound off... Maybe a year from now if we are right I will dig this post up and we will appear like geniuses. Liekwise, if we are wrong we can disavow any knowledge of this thread ;) .

My support for Wagner comes from a falshbulb memory. I'm hazy on what team they were playing, but there was a sequence where Wagner was playing Point Guard where he was the most dominant college player I saw all year. He was repeatedly taking the ball up the court, driving effortlessly past his man and then threading the most elegant passes to his teammates. He demonstrated pro, handles, understanding, and court vision. I don't really anticipate he will be a PG 10 years from now, but I understand why people project him in this direction. He has a rediculous PG skill set coupled with the knowledge of a coach's son. When you combine these skills with his innate ability to score in pressure situations (as demonstrated by his play in the NIT), his strength and his wing span I would narrowly select him over JWILL. I'm sure both W's will have long, solid, pro carreers but I would rather select Wagner with the number two pick.
 

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Wagner

I like Wagner too. I don't think he lacks any ofthe leadership qualities that Williams is supposed to have, and I think he'll be a good player in the league. The only reason I would still take JWill is the quickness factor. Williams is much quicker than Wagner, and that will way more than make up for the height difference. To be an NBA 1, you really need that quickness. I see Wagner as being more of a Vinny Johnson type and Williams as more of an Isaiah type, although Wagner will be better than Vinny and Williams won't be quite as good as Isaiah most likely.
 

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Beware of Elbows
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Jay Williams

The Bulls would be better off with Williams. They need someone who can score and come in and be another leader to help Rose. Memphis or Denver need Wagner.
 

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"Meow."
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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Mr x,

Have you ever seen the Bulls or Wagner play? Just a question...
 

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Fomer Admins are Kewl!
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Wagner may not be as fast as JWill but he is a much better athlete. and he is definitely stronger and has a longer wing span. As far as Killer instinct goes. it's about even they both Jersey boys so you know its there
 

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"Meow."
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Discussion Starter #6
Alright, Its way too early to be saying "I told you so", but I thought I would bump this thread so all of you can marvel at my scouting "genius" from June. :eek:
 

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People are deceived about Dajuan's speed. He's still not 100%, so don't judge him yet. Of course he's slower than Jay right now. But in the draft camps, you had people actually saying Dajuan was faster (because of his famous first step). Let Dajuan play about a week or two before you judge his speed. He's obviously not at his best right now and that is understandable.

But the breakdown.

Shooting - Jay. But when it comes to banking on the side, that's Dajuan's game.

FT - Jay is getting better but Dajuan is usually more solid at the line.

Height - Dajuan is only about an inch taller but his wingspan is about 9 inches longer than Jay's, thus Dajuan tends to play taller.

Experience - Jay. He's older and has more college ball experience, plus playing experience.

Athleticism - Dajuan. The kid has been dunking since he was 14 years old, a freak. Plus Dajuan keeps working with that personal trainer, getting in better shape every year.

Verdict: Tie

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Dajuan probably won't ever be a PG. After seeing the Iverson PG experiment in Philly, Lucas said he would never try to convert Wagner into a PG. After all, Dajuan runs to his spot on the floor and starts running routes from the jump. Having him play point takes away his aggressiveness, said Lucas.
 

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i dont see why wagner cant play point ala steve francis, steve seems to be doing fine averagine 25ppg 7rpg and 6apg
 

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"Meow."
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Discussion Starter #9
Originally posted by <b>JOHNNY_BRAVisimO</b>!
i dont see why wagner cant play point ala steve francis, steve seems to be doing fine averagine 25ppg 7rpg and 6apg
No, I really feel like a *****. I hate 1) duplicate threads and 2) gloating... both of which I have indulged-- the gloating being way, way premature.

Johnny: I contend that Francis isn't playing well at the point. Yes hes putting up incredible numbers and has all the skills in the world, but he isn't contributing in the win/loss column like a Kidd (not that many are). Don't get me wrong, I think Francis could play a Kidd type game but with his natural scoring sense he really would be a better off guard who distributes ocassionally than a scoring pg.

The Rockets may be better off if they traded Moochie Norris and substance not involving the name Ming for a Gilbert Arenas, JWILL type player. The emergence of Ming has come in spite of the Rockets offensive schemes (or lack there of). A good distributor would make the balance problems a non-issue.

Thus in Wagners case, yes, he could be a point guard in the mold of Francis-- but why? AI has proven you can be a smaller yet deadly two. There is precedence and no reason to put the rock in your primary options hands every trip down the court.

It would be a different story altogether if the Cavs were going to try to turn Wagner into a real pg like the Bulls are trying to do with Jwill and the Warriors have done with Arenas. Wagner has the court vision, ball skills, and smarts (remember, he is a coaches son) to make the transition. As us Bulls fans know though, this is not an easy process even for the smartest of athletes.

I just don't see there being any point in trying to turn Wagner in to a Francis type player-- he just isn't having the affect on the rockets win-loss column that his superior game could have.

Short comment- long response.
 

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I very much agree about Francis as a point guard....I've never liked him at the position.
 

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"Meow."
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Discussion Starter #11
I just wanted to update... after I proclaimed myself the winner for wanting to draft Wagner he went 2-12 for 5 pts. last night.
 

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Rollin Wit Da Homies
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I wanted the Bulls to pick Wagner over Jay. Now that we have Jay, I'm glad we do (mostly because he shows a lot of off-the-court maturity).

But Wagner's quite a player. He was super highly touted coming out of H.S., but he went to college and is still the same player as before.
 
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